Indian Air Force - Exercises Discussions
- Thread starter TomCat111
- Start date
no PAF-IAF-PLAAF is diff.
this is USAF as tomcat said it in but wrong way.
It will take them time to take air superioty but they will gain it.
what the hell can you do when your c41's will be pounded by b2's backed with f22's handling a2a and f15 tackling others.
yes only thing to prevent it wait next 40 years or just wait another decade and have a icbm/ssbn.
if we had 1200 flankers i'd have happily said USAF without fielding any 5th gen wud be a huge competition., but we dont simply have numbers.
does tht means IAF pilots are bad than USAF NO infact topguns of us are perfectly comparable with IAf topguns.
however carrier operations are something tuff but we have mastered it as well.
in a all out war against india-us , it wont ever happen if it happens will be a 3rd world war.
right now we can hold immense advantage ground level not air level.
infact no no no country can hold its nuts infront USAF.
thats why i want asia to move towards a euro centric nation with whole pakistan-india-china-russia forming ally and having common currency.
this is USAF as tomcat said it in but wrong way.
It will take them time to take air superioty but they will gain it.
what the hell can you do when your c41's will be pounded by b2's backed with f22's handling a2a and f15 tackling others.
yes only thing to prevent it wait next 40 years or just wait another decade and have a icbm/ssbn.
if we had 1200 flankers i'd have happily said USAF without fielding any 5th gen wud be a huge competition., but we dont simply have numbers.
does tht means IAF pilots are bad than USAF NO infact topguns of us are perfectly comparable with IAf topguns.
however carrier operations are something tuff but we have mastered it as well.
in a all out war against india-us , it wont ever happen if it happens will be a 3rd world war.
right now we can hold immense advantage ground level not air level.
infact no no no country can hold its nuts infront USAF.
thats why i want asia to move towards a euro centric nation with whole pakistan-india-china-russia forming ally and having common currency.
we are just budding....give us 2/3 decades .
when with one single strike by any nation our ssn wil be capable of engaging local bases to remove use of local intel and stuffs.
i'm not speaking of any nation-versus nation just in general.
when with one single strike by any nation our ssn wil be capable of engaging local bases to remove use of local intel and stuffs.
i'm not speaking of any nation-versus nation just in general.
3rd Wing Explains 'Cope India' Exercise Aviation Week & Space Technology 10/04/2004, page 50 David A. Fulghum Elmendorf AFB, Alaska
3rd Wing explains what happened when U.S. pilots faced innovative Indian air force tactics
Indian 'Scare'
The losing performance of F-15Cs in simulated air-to-air combat against the Indian air force this year is being perceived by some, both in the U.S. and overseas, as a weakening of American capabilities, and it is generating taunts from within the competitive U.S. fighter community.
The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
The reasons for the drubbing have gone largely unexplained and been misunderstood, according to those based here with the 3rd Wing who participated. Two major factors stand out: None of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs was equipped with the newest long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. These Raytheon APG-63(V)2 radars were designed to find small and stealthy targets. At India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the use of simulated long-range, radar-guided AIM-120 Amraams that even the odds with beyond-visual-range kills.
These same U.S. participants say the Indian pilots showed innovation and flexibility in their tactics. They also admit that they came into the exercise underrating the training and tactics of the pilots they faced. Instead of typical Cold War-style, ground-controlled interceptions, the Indians varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations. Indian air force planners never reinforced failure or repeated tactics that the U.S. easily repelled. Moreover, the IAF's airborne commanders changed tactics as opportunities arose. Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.
Maj. Mark A. Snowden, the 3rd Wing's chief of air-to-air tactics and a participant in Cope India, spoke for the 13 U.S. pilots who attended the exercise. They flew six F-15Cs, each equipped with a fighter data link for rapid exchange of target information, AIM-9Xs and a Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System, he says. The aircraft had been to Singapore for another exercise and for the long, six-week jaunt it was decided not to bring along the additional maintenance package needed to support AESA-equipped F-15Cs.
Cope India was held Feb. 15-28 at Gwalior, about 150 mi. south of Delhi, where the Indian air force has its Tactics Air Combat Development Establishment, which operates late-model MiG-21 Fishbeds as fighter escorts and MiG-27 Floggers as strike aircraft. Aerospace officials who have heard the classified brief on the exercise say the MiG-21s were equipped with a "gray-market" Bison radar and avionics upgrade.
Mica-armed Dassault Mirages 2000s are also stationed there. Brought in for the exercise were Sukhoi Su-30s (but not the newest Su-30 MKIs) carrying simulated AA-11s and AA-12 Adders. There also were five MiG-29 Flankers involved in a peripheral role and an Antonov An-32 Cline as a simulated AWACS.
"The outcome of the exercise boils down to [the fact that] they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected," Snowden says. "India had developed its own air tactics somewhat in a vacuum. They had done some training with the French that we knew about, but we did not expect them to be a very well-trained air force. That was silly.
"They could come up with a game plan, but if it wasn't working they would call an audible and change [tactics in flight]," he says. "They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. [Using all their assets,] they built a very good [radar] picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll [their aircraft] in and out."
Aerospace industry officials say there's some indication that the MiG-21s also may have been getting a data feed from other airborne radars that gave them improved situational awareness of the airborne picture.
Generally the combat scenario was to have four F-15s flying at any time against about 12 Indian aircraft. While the U.S. pilots normally train to four versus 12, that takes into account at least two of the U.S. aircraft having AESA radar and being able to make the first, beyond-visual-range shots. For the exercise, both sides restricted long-range shots.
"That's what the Indians wanted to do," Snowden says. "That [handicap] really benefits a numerically superior force because you can't whittle away some of their force at long range. They were simulating active missiles [including] AA-12s." This means the missile has its own radar transmitter and doesn't depend on the launch aircraft's radar after launch. With the older AA-10 Alamo, the launching fighter has to keep its target illuminated with radar so the U.S. pilots would know when they were being targeted. But with the AA-12, they didn't know if they had been targeted. The Mirage 2000s carried the active Mica missile. Aerospace industry officials said that some of the radars the U.S. pilots encountered, including that of the Mirage 2000s, exhibited different characteristics than those on standard versions of the aircraft.
The U.S. pilots used no active missiles, and the AIM-120 Amraam capability was limited to a 20-naut.-mi. range while keeping the target illuminated when attacking and 18 naut. mi. when defending, as were all the missiles in the exercise.
"When we saw that they were a more professional air force, we realized that within the constraints of the exercise we were going to have a very difficult time," Snowden says. "In general, it looked like they ran a broad spectrum of tactics and they were adaptive. They would analyze what we were doing and then try something else. They weren't afraid to bring the strikers in high or low. They would move them around so that we could never anticipate from day to day what we were going to see."
By comparison, the U.S. pilots don't think they offered the Indians any surprises. The initial tactic is to run a wall with all four F-15s up front. That plays well when the long-range missiles and AESA radar are in play.
"You know we're there and we're not hiding," Snowden says. "But we didn't have the beyond-visual-range shot or the numerical advantage. Eventually we were just worn down by the numbers. They were very smart about it. Their goal was to get to a target area, engage the target and then withdraw without prolonging the fight. If there were a couple of Eagles still alive away from the target area, they would keep them pinned in, get done with the target and then egress with all their forces.
"All their aircraft seemed to be capable of breaking out [targets] and shooting at the ranges the exercise allowed," he says. "We generally don't train to an active missile threat [like the Mirage's Mica or the AA-12 for the Russian-built aircraft], and that was one of the things that caused us some problems."
USAF planners here see Cope India as the first step in an annual series of exchange exercises.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1237790/posts
3rd Wing explains what happened when U.S. pilots faced innovative Indian air force tactics
Indian 'Scare'
The losing performance of F-15Cs in simulated air-to-air combat against the Indian air force this year is being perceived by some, both in the U.S. and overseas, as a weakening of American capabilities, and it is generating taunts from within the competitive U.S. fighter community.
The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
The reasons for the drubbing have gone largely unexplained and been misunderstood, according to those based here with the 3rd Wing who participated. Two major factors stand out: None of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs was equipped with the newest long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. These Raytheon APG-63(V)2 radars were designed to find small and stealthy targets. At India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the use of simulated long-range, radar-guided AIM-120 Amraams that even the odds with beyond-visual-range kills.
These same U.S. participants say the Indian pilots showed innovation and flexibility in their tactics. They also admit that they came into the exercise underrating the training and tactics of the pilots they faced. Instead of typical Cold War-style, ground-controlled interceptions, the Indians varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations. Indian air force planners never reinforced failure or repeated tactics that the U.S. easily repelled. Moreover, the IAF's airborne commanders changed tactics as opportunities arose. Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.
Maj. Mark A. Snowden, the 3rd Wing's chief of air-to-air tactics and a participant in Cope India, spoke for the 13 U.S. pilots who attended the exercise. They flew six F-15Cs, each equipped with a fighter data link for rapid exchange of target information, AIM-9Xs and a Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System, he says. The aircraft had been to Singapore for another exercise and for the long, six-week jaunt it was decided not to bring along the additional maintenance package needed to support AESA-equipped F-15Cs.
Cope India was held Feb. 15-28 at Gwalior, about 150 mi. south of Delhi, where the Indian air force has its Tactics Air Combat Development Establishment, which operates late-model MiG-21 Fishbeds as fighter escorts and MiG-27 Floggers as strike aircraft. Aerospace officials who have heard the classified brief on the exercise say the MiG-21s were equipped with a "gray-market" Bison radar and avionics upgrade.
Mica-armed Dassault Mirages 2000s are also stationed there. Brought in for the exercise were Sukhoi Su-30s (but not the newest Su-30 MKIs) carrying simulated AA-11s and AA-12 Adders. There also were five MiG-29 Flankers involved in a peripheral role and an Antonov An-32 Cline as a simulated AWACS.
"The outcome of the exercise boils down to [the fact that] they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected," Snowden says. "India had developed its own air tactics somewhat in a vacuum. They had done some training with the French that we knew about, but we did not expect them to be a very well-trained air force. That was silly.
"They could come up with a game plan, but if it wasn't working they would call an audible and change [tactics in flight]," he says. "They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. [Using all their assets,] they built a very good [radar] picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll [their aircraft] in and out."
Aerospace industry officials say there's some indication that the MiG-21s also may have been getting a data feed from other airborne radars that gave them improved situational awareness of the airborne picture.
Generally the combat scenario was to have four F-15s flying at any time against about 12 Indian aircraft. While the U.S. pilots normally train to four versus 12, that takes into account at least two of the U.S. aircraft having AESA radar and being able to make the first, beyond-visual-range shots. For the exercise, both sides restricted long-range shots.
"That's what the Indians wanted to do," Snowden says. "That [handicap] really benefits a numerically superior force because you can't whittle away some of their force at long range. They were simulating active missiles [including] AA-12s." This means the missile has its own radar transmitter and doesn't depend on the launch aircraft's radar after launch. With the older AA-10 Alamo, the launching fighter has to keep its target illuminated with radar so the U.S. pilots would know when they were being targeted. But with the AA-12, they didn't know if they had been targeted. The Mirage 2000s carried the active Mica missile. Aerospace industry officials said that some of the radars the U.S. pilots encountered, including that of the Mirage 2000s, exhibited different characteristics than those on standard versions of the aircraft.
The U.S. pilots used no active missiles, and the AIM-120 Amraam capability was limited to a 20-naut.-mi. range while keeping the target illuminated when attacking and 18 naut. mi. when defending, as were all the missiles in the exercise.
"When we saw that they were a more professional air force, we realized that within the constraints of the exercise we were going to have a very difficult time," Snowden says. "In general, it looked like they ran a broad spectrum of tactics and they were adaptive. They would analyze what we were doing and then try something else. They weren't afraid to bring the strikers in high or low. They would move them around so that we could never anticipate from day to day what we were going to see."
By comparison, the U.S. pilots don't think they offered the Indians any surprises. The initial tactic is to run a wall with all four F-15s up front. That plays well when the long-range missiles and AESA radar are in play.
"You know we're there and we're not hiding," Snowden says. "But we didn't have the beyond-visual-range shot or the numerical advantage. Eventually we were just worn down by the numbers. They were very smart about it. Their goal was to get to a target area, engage the target and then withdraw without prolonging the fight. If there were a couple of Eagles still alive away from the target area, they would keep them pinned in, get done with the target and then egress with all their forces.
"All their aircraft seemed to be capable of breaking out [targets] and shooting at the ranges the exercise allowed," he says. "We generally don't train to an active missile threat [like the Mirage's Mica or the AA-12 for the Russian-built aircraft], and that was one of the things that caused us some problems."
USAF planners here see Cope India as the first step in an annual series of exchange exercises.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1237790/posts
MIG_ACE
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I've read the article before.Its an old one and there are some things mentioned there which just dont add up..
As far as i know the Bison upgrades were carried out in co-op with russia and israel.But i could be wrong.Anyway what does he exactly mean by "grey market".India didnt smuggle in the components for gods sake.
The IAF does not have the MICA BVRAAM.IAF m-2000s carry only the Super-530D BVRAAM.
And mig-29 FLANKERS???? Mig-29 is not the same as a flanker. I seriously doubt if the guy who wrote this has any defence knowledge at all.
What airborne radars?? India doesnt have any. The Phalcons are yet to be delivered and this thing happened in 2004.
And there was a simple reason for the IAF asking the US not to bring AESA equipped F-15Cs. An AESA equipped F-15C is far superior to any IAF fighter especially when u are not using AWACS. How are u supposed to fight an aircraft which is probably only second to the F-22 in the world with Mig-21s and a few base model Su-30s?? The IAF would want to recreate a situation which it would actually face in a real war. Ofcourse now that PAF is getting AMRAAMS they wud drop that restriction in any future exercises with USAF.Maybe they alsready did for Cope India 2006 in which the US fielded F-16s.
As far as i know the Bison upgrades were carried out in co-op with russia and israel.But i could be wrong.Anyway what does he exactly mean by "grey market".India didnt smuggle in the components for gods sake.
The IAF does not have the MICA BVRAAM.IAF m-2000s carry only the Super-530D BVRAAM.
And mig-29 FLANKERS???? Mig-29 is not the same as a flanker. I seriously doubt if the guy who wrote this has any defence knowledge at all.
What airborne radars?? India doesnt have any. The Phalcons are yet to be delivered and this thing happened in 2004.
And there was a simple reason for the IAF asking the US not to bring AESA equipped F-15Cs. An AESA equipped F-15C is far superior to any IAF fighter especially when u are not using AWACS. How are u supposed to fight an aircraft which is probably only second to the F-22 in the world with Mig-21s and a few base model Su-30s?? The IAF would want to recreate a situation which it would actually face in a real war. Ofcourse now that PAF is getting AMRAAMS they wud drop that restriction in any future exercises with USAF.Maybe they alsready did for Cope India 2006 in which the US fielded F-16s.
WTF!! stop this weird discussion guys.
IAf pilots gave them a hard time but it was not a win-lose game.
it was a DACT.
some classified information has been once posted in f16.net by moose whos a USAf pilot and he deleted it after sometime it was about the cope india.
i dont have anything else to say.
we do conduct huge Joint exercises with diff countries.
right now singapore blobk 52 f6 are here in kalaikunda af base.
IAf pilots gave them a hard time but it was not a win-lose game.
it was a DACT.
some classified information has been once posted in f16.net by moose whos a USAf pilot and he deleted it after sometime it was about the cope india.
i dont have anything else to say.
we do conduct huge Joint exercises with diff countries.
right now singapore blobk 52 f6 are here in kalaikunda af base.
vnomad
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The no. of F-15s with the AESA is small. And they were up, by and large against Bisons and Floggers.
The number of F15's that are allowed to use AMRAAM within 20 nautical miles is zero...
Let see as 12 smaller F7pg fighting against 4 MKI... And MKI is only allowed to use weapons withing 20 nautical miles. As an extra we add sd10 to the F7pg...
I bet you would say that the fight is unrealistic. 10 pages of crap and still this topic continues... Yeah... Opinions, I know.
Let see as 12 smaller F7pg fighting against 4 MKI... And MKI is only allowed to use weapons withing 20 nautical miles. As an extra we add sd10 to the F7pg...
I bet you would say that the fight is unrealistic. 10 pages of crap and still this topic continues... Yeah... Opinions, I know.
Keysersoze
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As someone who has been reading this thread I have to agree with the last statement
India-Singapore air exercises. Su-30MKI, AWACS fielded.
India, Singapore To Hold Joint Air Force Exercise From 11 Oct
Report by Gautam Datt: "Singapore F-16s arrive for war games with IAF"
Originally published on 10/10/2004 by Delhi The Asian Age (Internet Version-WWW) in English
[FBIS Transcribed Text]
New Delhi, Oct. 9: Six F-16 fighters of the Singapore Air Force have arrived at the Gwalior airbase in Madhya Pradesh for holding a joint exercise with the Indian Air Force [IAF]. This is the first time IAF pilots will get a chance to practice war manoeuvres along with the F-16s. The two Air Forces have begun preparations for the exercise that begins on October 11 and will continue till October 27. Officials said that apart from the six F-16 C/D fighting Falcons, the Singapore Air Force team has also come with the KC-135R refueller and transporter. The exercise, named Ankush, will involve combat moves. The F-16s will be challenged by the Indian fighters. India has decided to pitch in all aircraft types in its inventory excluding the MiG-25s.
This is the second big exercise to be held in Gwalior this year. The US Air Force had come to the base in February this year with their F-15 Eagle. The Indian fighters had given a tough time to the US F-15s and defeated them in the war games. The French Air Force also took part in the exercise at Gwalior last year.
While the IAF has had the experience of staging war manoeuvres against the USAF's F-15 Eagle, it will now get a chance to try out its skills against the F-16s which are flown also by the Pakistan Air Force.
Officials said the exercise is part of the IAF's effort to broaden its horizon. IAF jets last month returned from Alaska after taking part in a multi-national exercise where many Nato countries showed their skills. The team comprised six Jaguars and an IL-78 refueller. A fleet of Indian Mirages has just returned after holding a joint exercise with the South African Air Force. As far as the Singapore Air Force is concerned, it had sent six fighters to France in September for a joint military exercise. The Singapore-French operation, codenamed Exercise Western Arc, ended on October 4. At Gwalior, briefings for the pilots have started in preparation for the joint exercise.
While the main exercise is likely to be held at the Gwalior air base, the RSAF, according to defence ministry sources, may also get the nod to test their prowess at Pokharan range near Jaisalmer.
Source : http://worldnews.xignite.com/xWorldNews.aspx?articleid=SAP20041010000045
------------
AWACS, F-16s to take on IAF in joint exercises
The IAF is also keen on the participation of the F-16, the main combat aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force�s fleet, during the exercises. India, with its MiG-29 air defence aircraft and multi-role Mirage-2000 and the SU-30 MKI, has been keen to take on the F-16 and learn from operational capabilities under simulated conditions. Similarly, AWACS, with its ability to provide early warning as well as serve as command post in the air, has been high on the IAF�s agenda.
-----
Another article form http://www.centralchronicle.com/20041012/1210545.htm
NEW DELHI: Six F-16 fighters of the Singapore Air Force today commenced joint exercises with the Indian Air Force-- allowing the IAF an opportunity to practice war manoeuvres along with the F-16s for the first time.
The two air forces will for the first time conduct the `Ankush' defensive offensive air exercises till October 27 in the skies over Gwalior, Kalaikunda (West Bengal) and Pokhran (Rajasthan) in which the IAF has decided to pitch in all aircraft in its inventory -- save the MiG-25s.
According to an IAF spokesperson here, the Singapore Air Force have arrived with 6 F-16 fighting falcons, a KC-135R refueller and a C-130 Hercules transporter to conduct the second such exercise this year from Gwalior IAF base. The US Air Force had come to this base in February last with their F-15 Eagles.
And after having successfully taken on the US-flown Eagles, the IAF air warriors will now get a chance to test their skills against the Singaporean F-16s--flown also by the Pakistan Air Force.
The Singapore airmen had only last month taken part in a joint military exercise in France where the air forces of the two countries engaged in air combat and air-to-air flying manoeuvres in `exercise western arc' from September 20 to October 4.
According to Singapore's ministry of defense, the exercise will give Singapore's Air Force ``a valuable opportunity to conduct air operations in realistic and challenging conditions''.
Marking another milestone in the growing defence cooperation between India and Singapore, the exercise will also help enhance inter-operability and mutual understanding between the two Air Forces, the ministry said.
The island city-state has limited air space--as well as territory--and under a recent defence cooperation agreement, its defence forces will be able to conduct military manoeuvres here jointly with the Indian Armed Forces.
--------
IAF readies to take on F-16s
NEW DELHI: Indian Mirage-2000 and Sukhoi-30 multi-role jets will finally get an opportunity to match their combat skills with the F-16 fighter aircraft. No, the IAF is not going to fly across the border and take on the F-16s of the Pakist-an Air Fo-rce (PAF).
The IAF fighter aircraft, instead, are now all set to hold a joint exercise with the
F-16s of the Singapore Air Force at Gwalior in September-October, say sources.
The IAF has been desperate to size up the F-16s ever since Pakistan acquired them from the US in the mid-1980s. IAF officers were, in fact, quite keen that US field the F-16 Falcons during the 'Cope India-04' joint Indo-US exercise held in Gwalior in February. But, in the end, the USAF took part with F-15C Eagles, disappointing many officers.
"The details are still being worked out for the exercise with Singapore. Their aircraft will also practice live bombing missions at Pokhran," sources said. Incidentally, Singapore Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong was in New Delhi last week to strengthen bilateral ties, including finalisation of a mutual legal assistance treaty on criminal matters.
-------------
Some initial IAF reactions :
"Our Sukhois are doing very well against the F-16Cs (of Singapore Air Force) in terms of manoeuvrability, sophistication of avionics and weapon systems. Similarly, our MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s are also matching up to the F-16s," say IAF sources.
According to Times of India " Russian-origin Sukhoi-30MKI jets are apparently outgunning American F-16s on "several aspects" at the ongoing Indo-Singapore air combat exercise in Gwalior. "
IAF is pitting even its MiG-21s, which constitute over 45% of India's combat fleet, against F-16s during the 'Sindex-Ankush' exercise in Gwalior.
"Ever since the Pakistanis acquired F-16s from the US in the mid-1980s, we wanted to size them up. So, we are matching almost all our planes with F-16s of the Singapore Air Force, which are more advanced than the F-16s of Pakistan," said sources.
The IAF has also tasked its elite combat school to develop manoeuvres for MiG-21s to elude the radar cones of F-16s.
IAF spokesperson Squadron Leader Mahesh Upasani only said, "Results of the exercise will be assessed only after the debrief. It's premature to comment at this stage."
Instead of F-16s, the US had fielded the F-15C Eagles during the Cope India-04 exercise in February. So, the decks were promptly cleared when Singapore came knocking for training facilities with its F-16s.
------
The chief of the Singapore Navy will be here next week looking to intensify joint activity with India as the defence establishment charts a course in military diplomacy to underpin the foreign ministry's "look east" policy.
Rear Admiral Ronnie Tay will be in the capital and meet his Indian counterpart Admiral Arun Prakash even as the Indian Air Force is preparing for an exercise with the Singapore Air Force in early October.
The Singapore Air Force will deploy six F-16 aircraft for the exercises to be held in the skies over Kalaikunda, Gwalior and Pokhran. The IAF is particularly keen on exercising with F-16 fighters, the frontline aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force.
In his talks with the Indian military establishment - the Singapore navy chief is due to meet the chief of army staff, General .C. Vij, and the vice-chief of air staff - Tay is expected to pick up the threads of a proposal at the Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation (Bimstec) meet in Bangkok last month for joint patrolling with the Indian Navy of busy sea lanes of communication.
Delhi is also considering a similar proposal from the Malaysian government. The navy conducts joint patrols in the Malacca Straits with the US Navy and last fortnight extended a cooperative exercise (called IndIndoCorpat) in the region with the Indonesian Navy.
The chief of the Royal Malaysian Navy, Admiral Dato Seri Mohammad Anwar Bin HJ Mohammad Nor, met the Indian navy chief on September 7 and explored opportunities for training of Malaysian naval personnel and navy-to-navy cooperation on the high seas in the Indian Ocean Region.
Bimstec countries, the US and France as also other nations in the region are concerned over security in the sea lane called the "6 degree channel", which is just about a mile wide in some stretches and 200 nautical miles long. The region is south of Indira Point, the navy and the coast guard station in the South Andaman Islands.
The Indian Navy is also to begin a sixth instalment in the Malabar series of exercises with the US Navy off the west coast shortly. Defence sources said the exercise would be held off Goa and the US would deploy a Los Angeles class nuclear submarine for the war games.
The US deployment for the Malabar exercise will also include an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, USS Cowpens, a Perry class frigate and a P3C Orion maritime surveillance aircraft.
The Indian Navy is currently evaluating the P3C Orion to reinforce its maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare capability. It is also evaluating the French aircraft Atlantique.
Indian deployment for the Malabar exercise will include a Delhi-class destroyer, a Brahmaputra-class guided missile frigate, TU-142 long-range maritime patrol aircraft and ship-based helicopters.
The exercise, held once a year, will focus on replenishment in the high seas, cross-deck landings, mid-sea air defence and anti-submarine warfare. The Malabar series of exercises were suspended after the 1998 Pokhran nuclear test by India but were revived two years ago.
India, Singapore To Hold Joint Air Force Exercise From 11 Oct
Report by Gautam Datt: "Singapore F-16s arrive for war games with IAF"
Originally published on 10/10/2004 by Delhi The Asian Age (Internet Version-WWW) in English
[FBIS Transcribed Text]
New Delhi, Oct. 9: Six F-16 fighters of the Singapore Air Force have arrived at the Gwalior airbase in Madhya Pradesh for holding a joint exercise with the Indian Air Force [IAF]. This is the first time IAF pilots will get a chance to practice war manoeuvres along with the F-16s. The two Air Forces have begun preparations for the exercise that begins on October 11 and will continue till October 27. Officials said that apart from the six F-16 C/D fighting Falcons, the Singapore Air Force team has also come with the KC-135R refueller and transporter. The exercise, named Ankush, will involve combat moves. The F-16s will be challenged by the Indian fighters. India has decided to pitch in all aircraft types in its inventory excluding the MiG-25s.
This is the second big exercise to be held in Gwalior this year. The US Air Force had come to the base in February this year with their F-15 Eagle. The Indian fighters had given a tough time to the US F-15s and defeated them in the war games. The French Air Force also took part in the exercise at Gwalior last year.
While the IAF has had the experience of staging war manoeuvres against the USAF's F-15 Eagle, it will now get a chance to try out its skills against the F-16s which are flown also by the Pakistan Air Force.
Officials said the exercise is part of the IAF's effort to broaden its horizon. IAF jets last month returned from Alaska after taking part in a multi-national exercise where many Nato countries showed their skills. The team comprised six Jaguars and an IL-78 refueller. A fleet of Indian Mirages has just returned after holding a joint exercise with the South African Air Force. As far as the Singapore Air Force is concerned, it had sent six fighters to France in September for a joint military exercise. The Singapore-French operation, codenamed Exercise Western Arc, ended on October 4. At Gwalior, briefings for the pilots have started in preparation for the joint exercise.
While the main exercise is likely to be held at the Gwalior air base, the RSAF, according to defence ministry sources, may also get the nod to test their prowess at Pokharan range near Jaisalmer.
Source : http://worldnews.xignite.com/xWorldNews.aspx?articleid=SAP20041010000045
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AWACS, F-16s to take on IAF in joint exercises
The IAF is also keen on the participation of the F-16, the main combat aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force�s fleet, during the exercises. India, with its MiG-29 air defence aircraft and multi-role Mirage-2000 and the SU-30 MKI, has been keen to take on the F-16 and learn from operational capabilities under simulated conditions. Similarly, AWACS, with its ability to provide early warning as well as serve as command post in the air, has been high on the IAF�s agenda.
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Another article form http://www.centralchronicle.com/20041012/1210545.htm
NEW DELHI: Six F-16 fighters of the Singapore Air Force today commenced joint exercises with the Indian Air Force-- allowing the IAF an opportunity to practice war manoeuvres along with the F-16s for the first time.
The two air forces will for the first time conduct the `Ankush' defensive offensive air exercises till October 27 in the skies over Gwalior, Kalaikunda (West Bengal) and Pokhran (Rajasthan) in which the IAF has decided to pitch in all aircraft in its inventory -- save the MiG-25s.
According to an IAF spokesperson here, the Singapore Air Force have arrived with 6 F-16 fighting falcons, a KC-135R refueller and a C-130 Hercules transporter to conduct the second such exercise this year from Gwalior IAF base. The US Air Force had come to this base in February last with their F-15 Eagles.
And after having successfully taken on the US-flown Eagles, the IAF air warriors will now get a chance to test their skills against the Singaporean F-16s--flown also by the Pakistan Air Force.
The Singapore airmen had only last month taken part in a joint military exercise in France where the air forces of the two countries engaged in air combat and air-to-air flying manoeuvres in `exercise western arc' from September 20 to October 4.
According to Singapore's ministry of defense, the exercise will give Singapore's Air Force ``a valuable opportunity to conduct air operations in realistic and challenging conditions''.
Marking another milestone in the growing defence cooperation between India and Singapore, the exercise will also help enhance inter-operability and mutual understanding between the two Air Forces, the ministry said.
The island city-state has limited air space--as well as territory--and under a recent defence cooperation agreement, its defence forces will be able to conduct military manoeuvres here jointly with the Indian Armed Forces.
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IAF readies to take on F-16s
NEW DELHI: Indian Mirage-2000 and Sukhoi-30 multi-role jets will finally get an opportunity to match their combat skills with the F-16 fighter aircraft. No, the IAF is not going to fly across the border and take on the F-16s of the Pakist-an Air Fo-rce (PAF).
The IAF fighter aircraft, instead, are now all set to hold a joint exercise with the
F-16s of the Singapore Air Force at Gwalior in September-October, say sources.
The IAF has been desperate to size up the F-16s ever since Pakistan acquired them from the US in the mid-1980s. IAF officers were, in fact, quite keen that US field the F-16 Falcons during the 'Cope India-04' joint Indo-US exercise held in Gwalior in February. But, in the end, the USAF took part with F-15C Eagles, disappointing many officers.
"The details are still being worked out for the exercise with Singapore. Their aircraft will also practice live bombing missions at Pokhran," sources said. Incidentally, Singapore Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong was in New Delhi last week to strengthen bilateral ties, including finalisation of a mutual legal assistance treaty on criminal matters.
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Some initial IAF reactions :
"Our Sukhois are doing very well against the F-16Cs (of Singapore Air Force) in terms of manoeuvrability, sophistication of avionics and weapon systems. Similarly, our MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s are also matching up to the F-16s," say IAF sources.
According to Times of India " Russian-origin Sukhoi-30MKI jets are apparently outgunning American F-16s on "several aspects" at the ongoing Indo-Singapore air combat exercise in Gwalior. "
IAF is pitting even its MiG-21s, which constitute over 45% of India's combat fleet, against F-16s during the 'Sindex-Ankush' exercise in Gwalior.
"Ever since the Pakistanis acquired F-16s from the US in the mid-1980s, we wanted to size them up. So, we are matching almost all our planes with F-16s of the Singapore Air Force, which are more advanced than the F-16s of Pakistan," said sources.
The IAF has also tasked its elite combat school to develop manoeuvres for MiG-21s to elude the radar cones of F-16s.
IAF spokesperson Squadron Leader Mahesh Upasani only said, "Results of the exercise will be assessed only after the debrief. It's premature to comment at this stage."
Instead of F-16s, the US had fielded the F-15C Eagles during the Cope India-04 exercise in February. So, the decks were promptly cleared when Singapore came knocking for training facilities with its F-16s.
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The chief of the Singapore Navy will be here next week looking to intensify joint activity with India as the defence establishment charts a course in military diplomacy to underpin the foreign ministry's "look east" policy.
Rear Admiral Ronnie Tay will be in the capital and meet his Indian counterpart Admiral Arun Prakash even as the Indian Air Force is preparing for an exercise with the Singapore Air Force in early October.
The Singapore Air Force will deploy six F-16 aircraft for the exercises to be held in the skies over Kalaikunda, Gwalior and Pokhran. The IAF is particularly keen on exercising with F-16 fighters, the frontline aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force.
In his talks with the Indian military establishment - the Singapore navy chief is due to meet the chief of army staff, General .C. Vij, and the vice-chief of air staff - Tay is expected to pick up the threads of a proposal at the Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation (Bimstec) meet in Bangkok last month for joint patrolling with the Indian Navy of busy sea lanes of communication.
Delhi is also considering a similar proposal from the Malaysian government. The navy conducts joint patrols in the Malacca Straits with the US Navy and last fortnight extended a cooperative exercise (called IndIndoCorpat) in the region with the Indonesian Navy.
The chief of the Royal Malaysian Navy, Admiral Dato Seri Mohammad Anwar Bin HJ Mohammad Nor, met the Indian navy chief on September 7 and explored opportunities for training of Malaysian naval personnel and navy-to-navy cooperation on the high seas in the Indian Ocean Region.
Bimstec countries, the US and France as also other nations in the region are concerned over security in the sea lane called the "6 degree channel", which is just about a mile wide in some stretches and 200 nautical miles long. The region is south of Indira Point, the navy and the coast guard station in the South Andaman Islands.
The Indian Navy is also to begin a sixth instalment in the Malabar series of exercises with the US Navy off the west coast shortly. Defence sources said the exercise would be held off Goa and the US would deploy a Los Angeles class nuclear submarine for the war games.
The US deployment for the Malabar exercise will also include an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, USS Cowpens, a Perry class frigate and a P3C Orion maritime surveillance aircraft.
The Indian Navy is currently evaluating the P3C Orion to reinforce its maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare capability. It is also evaluating the French aircraft Atlantique.
Indian deployment for the Malabar exercise will include a Delhi-class destroyer, a Brahmaputra-class guided missile frigate, TU-142 long-range maritime patrol aircraft and ship-based helicopters.
The exercise, held once a year, will focus on replenishment in the high seas, cross-deck landings, mid-sea air defence and anti-submarine warfare. The Malabar series of exercises were suspended after the 1998 Pokhran nuclear test by India but were revived two years ago.
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Have your way Webby here we were discussing about Cope India ofcourse USAF can trash any Airforce in the world given their range of Aircrafts and Technology.
You should have opened New thread for Singapore exercises. They are not at all part of Cope India exercises. India Singapore exercises were codenamed SINDEX.
Below article was from Airforce magazine it does not discuss fully about cope India but does mention about surprises from India agree or not and it is not from Indian media.
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