Indian Air Force - Exercises Discussions

[Goodperson]

Its media you cannot generalize but do post the such links friend.

 

[Munir]

So now I have to show evidence? Please...

 

[Goodperson]

On what basis you genralize and make accusations like So? It is as valuable as your media which is pathetic....

 

[Goodperson]

Please stick to the topic of thread otherwise I do not want to argue.

 

[EagleEyes]

WASHINGTON: Did the Indian Air Force really outperform American pilots and planes during recent India-US air combat exercises or is the USAF using the encounter to pitch for new generation fighter jets?

The guy knows what he is talking about!

That's the question buzzing around in strategic circles after a recent article in a limited access US Air Force magazine detailing the "surprising sophistication of Indian fighter aircraft and skill of Indian pilots" demonstrated at the Cope India air combat exercise at Gwalior in February this year.

What surprising sophistications? That Mig upgrade?

Or Isreali avionics on MKI? (I have admitted they are superior, when USAF had no access to AWE&Cs.)

The exercise, in which US F-15Cs were said to have been defeated more than 90 per cent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF, "is causing US Air Force officials to re-evaluate the way the service trains its fighter pilots while bolstering the case for buying the F/A-22 as a way to ensure continued air dominance for the United States," a June 2 article in the magazine Inside the Air Force reported.

The statements totally says it all!

1) It was a way to get more funding for F/A-22 fighter.
2) defeated more than 90% of time? Not suprised. USAF was facing the enemy 10/12-4 with a totally rip-off tactic, term used Red Air (see: http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000976.html)

The magazine quoted US officials who participated in the exercise as saying it should "provide a reality check for those who had assumed unquestioned US air superiority."

The official gives a comment to those who opposed the F/A-22 program. He sure did well! Mig-21s defeated F-15Cs.

On the face of it, the performance of the IAF, with its oft-reported air crashes in an aging, non-American fleet, might seem surprising. But US officials told the magazine that the Indians were much better than they had bargained for.

I agree. Nothing bad with this, they for sure faced the seniors, and MKI.

"What happened to us was it looks like our red air training might not be as good because the adversaries are better than we thought," the article quoted Col. Mike Snodgrass, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base, as saying. "And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."

Bingo!

Red Air, we have talked about this earlier, and you should be now familiar with this term.

Some of the equipments thats the MKI.

"Red air" refers to the way the US Air Force simulates enemy capability in air combat training. US officials emphasised that such simulation deliberately handicap US planes and pilots against the enemy because the service has assumed for years that its fighters are more capable than enemy aircraft.

There is the term again.

In Cope Thunder, four F-15Cs were pitted against 10 or 12 of same model Indian fighters such as the Mirage 2000, MIG-27 and MIG-29s in offensive and defensive counter air scenarios. But the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MIG-21, and the Sukhoi SU-30K Flanker, US officials said.

Do i need to say anything about the disadvantages of USAF?

"What we faced were superior numbers, and an IAF pilot who was very proficient in his aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," the magazine quoted a US airman who took part in the exercise as saying.

Nothing wrong with this comment. Red Air! and Good in their own aircrafts, and training, they better be.

While acknowledging the performance of their Indian colleagues, who they will meet again in another air combat exercise in Alaska next month, the US airmen also made a major pitch for the F/A-22 aircraft that the US government has been slow to embrace because of its cost and lack of a perceived threat.

Does this verifies the F/A-22 funds procurement?

"The major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and smarter about other [countries'] capabilities around the world and what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe," Col. Snodgrass said. "We've taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it's now time to move to the next generation."

Totally right! USAF needs F/A-22. :GUNS:

 

[EagleEyes]

Its media you cannot generalize but do post the such links friend.

So now I have to show evidence? Please...

On what basis you genralize and make accusations like So? It is as valuable as your media which is pathetic....

Please stick to the topic of thread otherwise I do not want to argue.

Guys please create another thread.

Both of you are not getting the point right.

Pakistani media isn't that good, but it is not the worst either. Indian media isn't obviously good enough, and do publish some bad materials time to time, but not all the articles are bad. Just like Pakistani media.

There isn't a lot of difference in both medias. Please accept it friendly, then being offended by it, and continuelly taking opposing it.

Now please stick with the topic, and if you have any points to prove wrong.

Bring it on! :army:

 

[Goodperson]

Totally right! USAF needs F/A-22 ,

But Webby you missed this and thats what requires UASF's need for F-22

The exercise, in which US F-15Cs were said to have been defeated more than 90 per cent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF, "is causing US Air Force officials to re-evaluate the way the service trains its fighter pilots while bolstering the case for buying the F/A-22 as a way to ensure continued air dominance for the United States," a June 2 article in the magazine Inside the Air Force reported.

 

[Munir]

Guys please create another thread.

Both of you are not getting the point right.

Pakistani media isn't that good, but it is not the worst either. Indian media isn't obviously good enough, and do publish some bad materials time to time, but not all the articles are bad. Just like Pakistani media.

There isn't a lot of difference in both medias. Please accept it friendly, then being offended by it, and continuelly taking trash.

Now please stick with the topic, and if you have any points to prove wrong.

Bring it on! :army:

I disagree with double blaiming. I posted exact your comments. Then he posted his media reports. I disagree with his media objectivity. He keeps his onesided opinion and is not slighly intrested in the real picture. Then I have to get also the blaim? I have to remind myself that it is not Pakdef...

It is your forum... Have it your way....

 

[EagleEyes]

Totally right! USAF needs F/A-22 ,

But Webby you missed this and thats what requires UASF's need for F-22

Are you following the whole discussion? :wall:

God damn it. I just taught you all the letters in the alphabet chart, and your coming up saying what is an alphabet "A" is?

I disagree with double blaiming. I posted exact your comments. Then he posted his media reports. I disagree with his media objectivity. He keeps his onesided opinion and is not slighly intrested in the real picture. Then I have to get also the blaim? I have to remind myself that it is not Pakdef...

I am not blaming anybody. The point i am trying to make across, is that both medias have problems.

You said, Indian media is crap. Which it is.

In responding to you, instead of being in a rebuttal position he declared that Pakistani media is crap, which i admit is his fault, and he lacks forum etiquettes and ability to continue a healthy debate, but it is a forum, no one is perfect.

Plus, dont bring PakDef, no one can match it.

 

[Goodperson]

We may have differences of opinion but still can have some beer

 

[EagleEyes]

We may have differences of opinion but still can have some beer

In this case there is nothing about the differences in opinion. Its about not admitting facts, and i have stated them above but you have totally over looked them.

 

[Munir]

Let me say it more simplistic then I am... Media is seldom objective neither are military forces. But spending 10 pages on this forum to counter a ver wrong opinion about IAF beating realisticly USAF shows counterproductivity. The problem is often that on internet you do not see whether you get posts from seniors or qualified persons... One moment you talk with a ex fighterpilot aka Murad and the other moment it can be a kid... I have been busy with all kinds of subjects since decades. Sometimes I am suprised that magazines don;t see the untrue info. Let me put this in a picture. The last cobat aircraft where we could read the J10 article... Go to page 21. You will see in the middle a picture with two j10. On page 22 you will see on the right side another pair of J10's. I can tell you within seconds that these two pictures are PS'ed. The real plane can be seen on the bottum of page 21...

If you have been busy with military planes since 80's then some reactions here are easily countered. But what can you do after 10 pages?

 

[EagleEyes]

Thats why in the world, not every one is a president.

Its life, you will face billionaires and beggars.

I hope you got my point.

Prophet once said, you will face the deniers, but your job is to tell them about the truth. Some will still deny, then you must ignore them.

 

[TomCat111]

Why do you think the Americans were requested to limit the engagement range simulated for their AMRAAMs? Obviously because Pakistan back then didn't have Amraams. It was never USAF vs IAF.

Could you please share with us, why couldn’t the Indians simulate Pakistanis as adversaries in their own exercises and had to use the Americans for it?

 

[vnomad]

Or Isreali avionics on MKI?

I agree. Nothing bad with this, they for sure faced the seniors, and MKI.

Some of the equipments thats the MKI.

The MKI did not feature in the exercises.
They were referring probably to the Bisons and the upgraded Floggers which were supposed to be a walkover.