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precicely what im saying...
Indian Air Force - Exercises Discussions
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precicely what im saying...
Goodperson
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pre-calculated suprise... Cool...
And what a suprise that two Indians are so happy with that so called suprise which basically was purely related to funding F22. Would it be expected to have them told that they beated Indians even when outnumbered three times and without BVR or radar advantages and being the largest RCS? It is amusing indeed.
I am not sure if the word "suprise" well fit into your statement. U.S had no access of Airborne Early Warning Systems i.e. AEW&Cs, and the fact is that those American pilots had limited BVR tactic experience without the help of any warning systems other than the limited radar capability in which MKI were superior, and since India doesn't have its own AEW&Cs or AWACs, they were well trained in their own BVR tactics and were well familiar with their own aircrafts (which gives a good sign about their experience and seniority + more flying hours), while USAF was at a disadvantage of implementing a not too experienced tactic (they usually are in this situation when they are lost or else, sleeping). Not to mention the USAF was usually outnumbered by the IAF 10/12 to 4.
So basically if any of you are trying to prove a point that because of that exercise IAF has an edge over USAF or PAF, then your doing nothing but dreaming, and while you dream do know that it will be over in the maximum of 20 seconds.
Goodperson
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So? It is as valuable as your media which is pathetic....
webmaster: I don't mind open forum idea but replying 100 times to a stupid poster is degrading the quality of any forum...
Goodperson
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The aim of joint-exercises is never to test the AFs against each other. The objective is to familiarize yourself with each others tactics and operating systems. They also train for future joint operations. Why do you think the Americans were requested to limit the engagement range simulated for their AMRAAMs? Obviously because Pakistan back then didn't have Amraams. It was never USAF vs IAF. The aim was to gain knowledge.
I agree Pakistani media is very reliable IAF cannot face PAF but the exercises were between USAF abd IAF on agreed parameters.:GUNS:
I agree Pakistani media is very reliable IAF cannot face PAF but the exercises were between USAF abd IAF on agreed parameters.:GUNS:
Munir, its not about that it is valuable or anything else, the fact is that the information is correct.
As i have read this thread i have seen this statement.
1) The exercise was for learning, and getting familar with the aircrafts.
(It is an information, not an argument!) I do certainly agree with that.
Goodperson,
If you disagree with the points in my post, do let me know, so we can go on from there.
But please!!! Think about it for a second, Mig-21 beating up an Alaskan F-15C! Oh boy, let me turn off the HBO. 
Goodperson
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As per Munir;s insistance here is TOI article Now where is propaganda ?
Aging IAF shoots down USAF top guns
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/745557.cms
WASHINGTON: Did the Indian Air Force really outperform American pilots and planes during recent India-US air combat exercises or is the USAF using the encounter to pitch for new generation fighter jets?
That's the question buzzing around in strategic circles after a recent article in a limited access US Air Force magazine detailing the "surprising sophistication of Indian fighter aircraft and skill of Indian pilots" demonstrated at the Cope India air combat exercise at Gwalior in February this year.
The exercise, in which US F-15Cs were said to have been defeated more than 90 per cent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF, "is causing US Air Force officials to re-evaluate the way the service trains its fighter pilots while bolstering the case for buying the F/A-22 as a way to ensure continued air dominance for the United States," a June 2 article in the magazine Inside the Air Force reported.
The magazine quoted US officials who participated in the exercise as saying it should "provide a reality check for those who had assumed unquestioned US air superiority."
On the face of it, the performance of the IAF, with its oft-reported air crashes in an aging, non-American fleet, might seem surprising. But US officials told the magazine that the Indians were much better than they had bargained for.
"What happened to us was it looks like our red air training might not be as good because the adversaries are better than we thought," the article quoted Col. Mike Snodgrass, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base, as saying. "And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."
"Red air" refers to the way the US Air Force simulates enemy capability in air combat training. US officials emphasised that such simulation deliberately handicap US planes and pilots against the enemy because the service has assumed for years that its fighters are more capable than enemy aircraft.
In Cope Thunder, four F-15Cs were pitted against 10 or 12 of same model Indian fighters such as the Mirage 2000, MIG-27 and MIG-29s in offensive and defensive counter air scenarios. But the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MIG-21, and the Sukhoi SU-30K Flanker, US officials said.
"What we faced were superior numbers, and an IAF pilot who was very proficient in his aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," the magazine quoted a US airman who took part in the exercise as saying.
While acknowledging the performance of their Indian colleagues, who they will meet again in another air combat exercise in Alaska next month, the US airmen also made a major pitch for the F/A-22 aircraft that the US government has been slow to embrace because of its cost and lack of a perceived threat.
"The major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and smarter about other [countries'] capabilities around the world and what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe," Col. Snodgrass said. "We've taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it's now time to move to the next generation."
Aging IAF shoots down USAF top guns
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/745557.cms
WASHINGTON: Did the Indian Air Force really outperform American pilots and planes during recent India-US air combat exercises or is the USAF using the encounter to pitch for new generation fighter jets?
That's the question buzzing around in strategic circles after a recent article in a limited access US Air Force magazine detailing the "surprising sophistication of Indian fighter aircraft and skill of Indian pilots" demonstrated at the Cope India air combat exercise at Gwalior in February this year.
The exercise, in which US F-15Cs were said to have been defeated more than 90 per cent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF, "is causing US Air Force officials to re-evaluate the way the service trains its fighter pilots while bolstering the case for buying the F/A-22 as a way to ensure continued air dominance for the United States," a June 2 article in the magazine Inside the Air Force reported.
The magazine quoted US officials who participated in the exercise as saying it should "provide a reality check for those who had assumed unquestioned US air superiority."
On the face of it, the performance of the IAF, with its oft-reported air crashes in an aging, non-American fleet, might seem surprising. But US officials told the magazine that the Indians were much better than they had bargained for.
"What happened to us was it looks like our red air training might not be as good because the adversaries are better than we thought," the article quoted Col. Mike Snodgrass, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base, as saying. "And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."
"Red air" refers to the way the US Air Force simulates enemy capability in air combat training. US officials emphasised that such simulation deliberately handicap US planes and pilots against the enemy because the service has assumed for years that its fighters are more capable than enemy aircraft.
In Cope Thunder, four F-15Cs were pitted against 10 or 12 of same model Indian fighters such as the Mirage 2000, MIG-27 and MIG-29s in offensive and defensive counter air scenarios. But the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MIG-21, and the Sukhoi SU-30K Flanker, US officials said.
"What we faced were superior numbers, and an IAF pilot who was very proficient in his aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," the magazine quoted a US airman who took part in the exercise as saying.
While acknowledging the performance of their Indian colleagues, who they will meet again in another air combat exercise in Alaska next month, the US airmen also made a major pitch for the F/A-22 aircraft that the US government has been slow to embrace because of its cost and lack of a perceived threat.
"The major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and smarter about other [countries'] capabilities around the world and what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe," Col. Snodgrass said. "We've taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it's now time to move to the next generation."
first source:
>>>That means they walked into the fight with their arms tied behind their backs. It makes for a good media coup in India... But in a full-up fight, I'd put ALL my money on the Alaska F-15C's over the Indian Air Force...
Calling that 1-0 sounds funny...
Second source is Indian. I donlt think that we can see that as valuable and certainly not as objective or realistic. But let us use that...
>>>"The major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and smarter about other [countries'] capabilities around the world and what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe," Col. Snodgrass said. "We've taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it's now time to move to the next generation."
I doubt that with extreme limitations the F15 was used optimally but the relation to F22 funding is also here very clear and very direct...
>>>That means they walked into the fight with their arms tied behind their backs. It makes for a good media coup in India... But in a full-up fight, I'd put ALL my money on the Alaska F-15C's over the Indian Air Force...
Calling that 1-0 sounds funny...
Second source is Indian. I donlt think that we can see that as valuable and certainly not as objective or realistic. But let us use that...
>>>"The major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and smarter about other [countries'] capabilities around the world and what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe," Col. Snodgrass said. "We've taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it's now time to move to the next generation."
I doubt that with extreme limitations the F15 was used optimally but the relation to F22 funding is also here very clear and very direct...
The comment is totally stupid and doesn't suit you or deserves to be on PFF. If you want to argue reliableness of Pakistani media for military information or Indian media, please create a seprate thread. I will be happy to discuss with you, and please no one claimed that Pakistani media is good for military information.
I never read in Pakistani media that JF17 is going to beat JSF or F22... Indian media is usual very clear on their objective information. LCA would have toasted anything with two hands in the nose... Just like Arjun would have done that if it ever passed a bridge or heated dessert... Or if Indian missiles or rockets could track anything with an imported sensor...
Goodperson
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Webmaster, I do not want get any contention, But it was not me who talked about media. See the quote.
Please do read my posts I have pointed to Munir couple of times that we should stick to the topic.
Above was uncalled for from my side but what else can I say when someone generalizes saying It is as valuable as your media which is pathetic....
Please do read my posts I have pointed to Munir couple of times that we should stick to the topic.
Above was uncalled for from my side but what else can I say when someone generalizes saying It is as valuable as your media which is pathetic....
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