Indian Activist speaks about rampant caste bias among the Indian diaspora in the United States.

[suyog chavan]

Really ? So Bhaktin Savitri Phule MP from Bahraich is giving a fake narrative?
But isn't this narrative fashionable?

https://www.financialexpress.com/in...-fashionable-ahead-of-2019-elections/1421311/
Caste certificate? Now what is
that?

'Caste certificate' of Lord Hanuman sought after Dalit tag

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath had recently dubbed Lord Hanuman as a Dalit.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

ohhh so you really believe it ,thought you were being sarcastic,
I pity your knowledge about India and its Sanatan dharm,
Such kind of ignorance cant be missed in Pakistan for sure

Don't know? You tell me ?
Isn't there an Anti-conversion law in India?

No anti-conversion law in India
only Mahar caste of Maharashtra became Buddhist renouncing Hinduism out of 100s of Dalit caste's(so called).
Dr B.R. Ambedkar converted to Buddhism , he was also from Mahar caste, and the community followed Ambedkar to buddhism.
Don't you Read Ambedkar's thoughts you should have known that??

@Baibars_1260 @jamahir

BJP will unravel all Hindu unity. These beasts had been kept leashed by UPA for so long. They blew off steam by a few riots every year. This time their bigotry is all out in the open.

May Modi win two terms more. See how he alienates South, Maharashtra and all the lower castes of India. BJP is nothing besides Brahmin Baniya supremacy.

dream.

 

[Baibars_1260]

ohhh so you really believe it ,thought you were being sarcastic,
I pity your knowledge about India and its Sanatan dharm,
Such kind of ignorance cant be missed in Pakistan for sure

dreamland pakistan.

Do YOU believe your own party's MP ? To be specific Savitri Phule?
My knowledge of the Sanatana Dharma is poor. Kindly help me improve.
1.What is a Dalit as defined by the government of India ?
Is there a certificate of being a Dalit? (like the certificate being sought in the link I posted.) . If it is caste is it any caste? Can a Brahmin be a Dalit?
2., From the religious point of view what is a shudra ?
Were Shudras created from the feet of Brahma?
This is my final post on this thread. Will wait for your answer.
Since you are connected to Agniveer.com please help me understand.

 

[suyog chavan]

Do YOU believe your own party's MP ? To be specific Savitri Phule?
My knowledge of the Sanatana Dharma is poor. Kindly help me improve.
1.What is a Dalit as defined by the government of India ?
Is there a certificate of being a Dalit? (like the certificate being sought in the link I posted.) . If it is caste is it any caste? Can a Brahmin be a Dalit?
2., From the religious point of view what is a shudra ?
Were Shudras created from the feet of Brahma?
This is my final post on this thread. Will wait for your answer.
Since you are connected to Agniveer.com please help me understand.

BJP is not my Party.

1.What is a Dalit as defined by the government of India ?

google it
government of India doesn't recognize the word Dalit it is unconstitutional
Rather the word >scheduled castes< is used.

 

[jamahir]

Antilla House and Dharavi existing next to each other.

I have posted about that contradiction many times.

Atleast we bhakts live in India and know the ground reality,
Not By reading of articles in newspaper, dictating it to you,
Believe or not thats truth,

I live in India too.

2024 is MODI again want to bet???

Sadly it seems it is Yogi who will become PM in 2024.

Could you clarify if a Dalit is a shudra or is a shudra a dalit?

Shudra is a varna
Dalit is a common word used for group of Castes,

There are four varnas ( main castes ) : Brahmans, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, Shudras. The Dalits and the tribals come outside of these four defined castes and are doubly oppressed.

why don't we shut the Industry polluting the air for 1 day to compensate the pollution caused by firecrackers during diwali for 10 days , yeah you heard right , Industry causes 10 x pollution as compared to firecrackers

You are partially correct there but it is nuanced.

"Industry" has various forms. Firstly we will dispense with fireworks which don't just cause immediate pollution and other hazards ( you can read this recent article about the harm of your mentioned "green crackers" ) but also cause secondary harm through the factories they are produced in.

Now, about "Industry".

Vehicular pollution : I am sure India and China are the most polluting countries in vehicular pollution through their population buying two wheelers ( especially in India ) and the neo-rich middle class buying four wheelers. The vehicles not only directly create pollution ( all year round ) through petroleum fuel emissions but also secondary pollution through the factories they are produced in. Think about the pollution in the immediate factory and then through the raw materials needed and where they are obtained from. Double this through the many models of vehicles brought out by so many companies a few times every year. The solution is multi-level. First, abolish the system of personally-owned private transport. Make transport through efficient public transport ( ideally buses ) and through the occasionally called four-wheeler taxis that can be driven by a company driver or customer-driven for the occasional romantic long drive. Next level, instead of petroleum fuel vehicles make them electric. For many years there were a few concerns about electric vehicles : Battery charge duration, battery longevity, battery size, battery safety and source to recharge the battery. Coincidentally all these concerns can be addressed through a marvelous development by an American company named NDB who devising is a nuclear-powered electric battery technology which can be implemented in various forms for various applications, any application, big and small, and whose power source is a nuclear material called Carbon-14 whose wasted form ( from nuclear reactor waste ) is used as the source. You can read about the tech on the company's website here.

Agriculture : Another big source of pollution. I intend to create a thread on this but I will just say here that fertilizer production, pesticide production, their production hazards and pollution and their usage pollution can be reduced greatly by reducing their production in the first place because we can move most of the agriculture model to Urban Farming and Vertical Farming and computerize these processes to make them efficient in water usage, reduce fertilizer usage and almost eliminate pesticide usage.

Housing : Use 3D Printing of houses and restrict houses to two floors and set among trees and gardens. Make the construction process resistant to fires and earthquakes. Spread the housing colonies horizontally in a township or city instead of vertically ( ten stories or fifty stories ). This will have an indirect, pollution reducing effect on the industries that provide the raw materials to construct houses. And will have the direct effect of making a city calmer and on its people also to be calmer. Remember to enable space for cats. Further calming and civilizing.

Computers : Read about Apple's forthcoming Glasses phone display. Well it really is a computer in its entirety. It will eliminate most of today's computer forms : cell phone, laptop, tablet, desktop, even many industrial displays I think.

Airplanes and ships : Electric mode of transport. Their power sources can be the NDB battery I mentioned. Elon Musk has been speaking of "electric jets" for some years. As to what they carry, the cargo or passengers will be reduced by the socio-economic and industrial changes occurring through the earlier things I mentioned, especially if most metal, plastic and concrete things are produced through 3D Printing. More pollution reduced.

What else have I missed ?

@ps3linux @fitpOsitive @Hamartia Antidote

Vehicles appear to cause more pollution as compared to firecrackers: SC

The Supreme Court Tuesday said why people were "running after" firecracker industries when it seems that automobiles were "bigger" contributor to pollution, and asked the Centre whether there was any comparative study on pollution caused by both. While expressing serious concern over loss of...

www.business-standard.com

The judges' main concern seems to be people getting unemployed if fireworks factories are shutdown. Well, those people can be retrained as modern, scientific farmers ( UF / VF from earlier ) and many other things.

He was mistakenly shoved by the crowd of temple priests while performing puja with the president kovind ,
as the temple puja math had too many priest gathered to see president Ram nath kovind.

No, he and his wife were definitely harassed. The later explanations by the government are excuses to hide it.

I have earlier on the thread read this article :

To prove his point, he highlighted how Dr Sampoornanand’s statue was purified and washed with gangajal after Jagjivan Ram, a Dalit, unveiled it.

“This relates to the unveiling of Dr Sampoornanand’s statue, who was the former Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, by Jagjivan Ram, who was an SC individual, to occupy the most powerful position, more powerful than that occupied by any other SC individual till now. He was a Union Minister from the interim government stage onwards for many decades and was deputy Prime Minister in the government headed by Morarji Desai.”

@Baibars_1260 @jamahir

BJP will unravel all Hindu unity. These beasts had been kept leashed by UPA for so long. They blew off steam by a few riots every year. This time their bigotry is all out in the open.

May Modi win two terms more. See how he alienates South, Maharashtra and all the lower castes of India. BJP is nothing besides Brahmin Baniya supremacy.

I think it will be Yogi as PM in 2024. The sufferings of the traditionally oppressed and of the sensible will continue, actually be amplified.

 

[suyog chavan]

Is there a certificate of being a Dalit? (like the certificate being sought in the link I posted.) . If it is caste is it any caste? Can a Brahmin be a Dalit?

there is no certificate for being Dalit,
Rather the certificate is not for the castes but rather come under scheduled caste , scheduled tribes, obc, etc

I live in India too.

the guy I was answering didnt live in india

2., From the religious point of view what is a shudra ?
Were Shudras created from the feet of Brahma?

The context isn't to be taken orthodoxly
read the full context and then question me.

Since you are connected to Agniveer.com please help me understand.

I am not connected to Agniveer, just read there articles and handful of other publications,
but I prefer original ancient texts ,
To be precise I am too a dalit(so called).

Sadly it seems it is Yogi who will become PM in 2024.

Highly unlikely in 2024,
but more likely after pm modi's term is over

There are four varnas ( main castes ) : Brahmans, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, Shudras. The Dalits and the tribals come outside of these four defined castes and are doubly oppressed.

firstly varna is not the caste
secondly stop giving false information.
If you think you are correct, give me source of the above statement you made, from ancient texts and scriptures.

No, he and his wife were definitely harassed. The later explanations by the government are excuses to hide it.

I have earlier on the thread read this article :

false

Fact Check: No misconduct with President Kovind at Puri

President Ram Nath Kovind and his wife were subject to no harassment at Puri's Jagannath temple as some news reports claimed, three months after the first couple visited the shrine, an India Today Viral Test has found.

www.indiatoday.in

Do you expect india today to cover up for hindu fascists( so called).

You are partially correct there but it is nuanced.

"Industry" has various forms. Firstly we will dispense with fireworks which don't just cause immediate pollution and other hazards ( you can read this recent article about the harm of your mentioned "green crackers" ) but also cause secondary harm through the factories they are produced in.

Now, about "Industry".

Vehicular pollution : I am sure India and China are the most polluting countries in vehicular pollution through their population buying two wheelers ( especially in India ) and the neo-rich middle class buying four wheelers. The vehicles not only directly create pollution ( all year round ) through petroleum fuel emissions but also secondary pollution through the factories they are produced in. Think about the pollution in the immediate factory and then through the raw materials needed and where they are obtained from. Double this through the many models of vehicles brought out by so many companies a few times every year. The solution is multi-level. First, abolish the system of personally-owned private transport. Make transport through efficient public transport ( ideally buses ) and through the occasionally called four-wheeler taxis that can be driven by a company driver or customer-driven for the occasional romantic long drive. Next level, instead of petroleum fuel vehicles make them electric. For many years there were a few concerns about electric vehicles : Battery charge duration, battery longevity, battery size, battery safety and source to recharge the battery. Coincidentally all these concerns can be addressed through a marvelous development by an American company named NDB who devising is a nuclear-powered electric battery technology which can be implemented in various forms for various applications, any application, big and small, and whose power source is a nuclear material called Carbon-14 whose wasted form ( from nuclear reactor waste ) is used as the source. You can read about the tech on the company's website here.

Agriculture : Another big source of pollution. I intend to create a thread on this but I will just say here that fertilizer production, pesticide production, their production hazards and pollution and their usage pollution can be reduced greatly by reducing their production in the first place because we can move most of the agriculture model to Urban Farming and Vertical Farming and computerize these processes to make them efficient in water usage, reduce fertilizer usage and almost eliminate pesticide usage.

Housing : Use 3D Printing of houses and restrict houses to two floors and set among trees and gardens. Make the construction process resistant to fires and earthquakes. Spread the housing colonies horizontally in a township or city instead of vertically ( ten stories or fifty stories ). This will have an indirect, pollution reducing effect on the industries that provide the raw materials to construct houses. And will have the direct effect of making a city calmer and on its people also to be calmer. Remember to enable space for cats. Further calming and civilizing.

Computers : Read about Apple's forthcoming Glasses phone display. Well it really is a computer in its entirety. It will eliminate most of today's computer forms : cell phone, laptop, tablet, desktop, even many industrial displays I think.

Airplanes and ships : Electric mode of transport. Their power sources can be the NDB battery I mentioned. Elon Musk has been speaking of "electric jets" for some years. As to what they carry, the cargo or passengers will be reduced by the socio-economic and industrial changes occurring through the earlier things I mentioned, especially if most metal, plastic and concrete things are produced through 3D Printing. More pollution reduced.

What else have I missed ?

I suggest using public transport and electric vehicles 1 month prior to diwali and 2 days of shutting of Industry on the Diwali days ( as it is already a national Holidays )

 

[rent4country]

That's racism dude. Fights in sects are mostly. The ones that are violent are opposed by states especially Pakistan. We don't think just because someone was born Dalit is below even a human being, will remain a Dalit and die a Dalit. That's kinda like old European Feudalism.


Dude that is subtle racism and mostly verbal. We don't lynch or rape shias or someone who is a virk or jatt or bhatti. We don't just reduce them to menial workers and discriminate against them in work places.

Biggest convert to Islam demographic are Dalits and Shudars in India, to escape persecution by PEOPLE OF THEIR OWN RELIGION. That's quite telling in my view.

All these distinctions of being born a class or not are moot when you kill each other in the name of the same religion but different sects. You designate Ahmadis as non-Muslims; you do violently attack each other simply because they are classified as different Muslims. We live in glass houses, and no one of us can claim some 'superior mantle.' Again, it does not matter if you are born into a race, creed, sect, caste, or not. You seem to be hung up on the verbiage and terminology when the fact is your religion, like others, also classifies and treats people differently.

Sunnis have killed scores of Shai's in Pakistan in violent mass attacks, and this is true. AND when it is not a religion, it's a socio-economic class born into that also treats (or mistreats them differently). Look at the terror groups in ME. They've killed more fellow Muslims, unlike anyone. All because they think the other Muslims were classified differently. My hope is the violence to be more of an outlier as we all grow to be more and more decent as a society

 

[Baibars_1260]

there is no certificate for being Dalit,
Rather the certificate is not for the castes but rather come under scheduled caste , scheduled tribes, obc, etc. The context isn't to be taken orthodoxly
read the full context and then question me.

You didn't answer my following questions:
1. How many Dalits converted from Buddhism to Hinduism?
2. Also how do India's anti-conversion laws work ? Is it ok to convert to Hinduism?
3. If one converts to Hinduism what caste if any does one retain?
4. The Buddhists who converted to Hinduism; do they choose to remain Dalits or do they also have a choice to move to another caste.
5. Can Muslims convert to Hinduism and claim Dalit status ?
6. Additionally, what is the caste of children born from a mixed dwija , adwija marriage ?
What is the caste of children born to a mleche (or landya) and Sanatani ? Note that this question has political consequences because the son of an Indian Prime Minister who got clobbered by a Sri Lankan honor guard was recently claiming a certain gotra and donning the sacred thread.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

All these distinctions of being born a class or not are moot when you kill each other in the name of the same religion but different sects. You designate Ahmadis as non-Muslims; you do violently attack each other simply because they are classified as different Muslims. We live in glass houses, and no one of us can claim some 'superior mantle.' Again, it does not matter if you are born into a race, creed, sect, caste, or not. You seem to be hung up on the verbiage and terminology when the fact is your religion, like others, also classifies and treats people differently.

Sunnis have killed scores of Shai's in Pakistan in violent mass attacks, and this is true. AND when it is not a religion, it's a socio-economic class born into that also treats (or mistreats them differently). Look at the terror groups in ME. They've killed more fellow Muslims, unlike anyone. All because they think the other Muslims were classified differently. My hope is the violence to be more of an outlier as we all grow to be more and more decent as a society

Ahmedis really are non muslims. How would you feel if a sect openly desecrates one of your core beliefs but still wants royal Hinsu treatment?

 

[rent4country]

Ahmedis really are non muslims. How would you feel if a sect openly desecrates one of your core beliefs but still wants royal Hinsu treatment?

Voila, you prove my point.
...and I'm not Hindu or Indian or Christian, nor should it matter.

 

[itsanufy]

Not surprised. I have had Scheduled Caste/Tribe Andhra based IT personnel complaining about Brahmin domination over the industry.
The Kammas don't seem to get along with the Reddiars.

All these threads you are spitting junk. You have absolutely no idea about India.
Brahmins are not boss in Andhra, but some diff cast. Google.

 

[Baibars_1260]

All these threads you are spitting junk. You have absolutely no idea about India.
Brahmins are not boss in Andhra, but some diff cast. Google.

Thanks. Would be deeply interested to know more about this and your insight.
Was just relating from personal experience. I didn't just mean Andhra but the old Andhra and Telengana combined. Also I never said Brahmin's are the boss. I was merely highlighting the Kamma Reddiar rivalry in the US IT sector.
I forgot there are also the Kapus.

 

[suyog chavan]

c

1. How many Dalits converted from Buddhism to Hinduism?

On October 14, 1956, B R Ambedkar along with 3,65,000 of his Dalit followers made history when they decided to leave the folds of Hinduism and embrace Buddhism.

2. Also how do India's anti-conversion laws work ? Is it ok to convert to Hinduism?

It reads: Prohibition of forcible conversion. No person shall convert or attempt to convert, either directly or otherwise any person from indigenous faith by use of force or by inducement or any fraudulent means nor shall any person abet any such conversion.

3. If one converts to Hinduism what caste if any does one retain?

arya samaj.

4. The Buddhists who converted to Hinduism; do they choose to remain Dalits or do they also have a choice to move to another caste.

They are Buddhist and so the Buddhist caste system apply on them.

5. Can Muslims convert to Hinduism and claim Dalit status ?

No. most of them rather choose the arya samaj way to hinduism.

6. Additionally, what is the caste of children born from a mixed dwija , adwija marriage ?
What is the caste of children born to a mleche (or landya) and Sanatani ? Note that this question has political consequences because the son of an Indian Prime Minister who got clobbered by a Sri Lankan honor guard was recently claiming a certain gotra and donning the sacred thread.

father's caste mainly, but no such provision is made in India for mixed caste marriages.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I haven't watched that vid but welcome to India's reality behind those "Incredible India" tourism campaigns.

This is definitely a "failure of humanity" video. I gave up a 3:00 as I couldn't take it anymore.

As I said you guys are lucky the British got there before the Spanish or you'd end up with the same fate the Aztecs got after the Spaniards witnessed their Pyramid rituals.

 

[Uguduwa]

You are only putting down your own people since most people don't differentiate between Pakistanis and Indians in the US. You are just lumped together in people's minds into a generic "non-Asian Asian" bucket (with other countries like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka). Any things Indians are known for gets shared with you guys. Just like how you lump Europeans and Americans into a generic "white" bucket and transfer any British actions into the broader "white" one.

This is true. Most people on this forum are shooting their own foot by creating stereotypes about themselves.

 

[Baibars_1260]

On October 14, 1956, B R Ambedkar along with 3,65,000 of his Dalit followers made history when they decided to leave the folds of Hinduism and embrace Buddhism.

Thanks. I think we were discussing the reverse, but the figure is interesting and I had looked that up already. I was trying to see if the site Agniveer.com had the reverse information.

It reads: Prohibition of forcible conversion. No person shall convert or attempt to convert, either directly or otherwise any person from indigenous faith by use of force or by inducement or any fraudulent means nor shall any person abet any such conversion.

Thanks again. I know what the anti-conversion law specifically states. What I wanted to know is when it becomes applicable because the word " inducement and fraudulent means", has a very wide meaning.
So specifically would conversion to Buddhism imply inducement?
( Note: It is understood that conversion to other religions is automatically considered forcible, fraudulent and by inducement.)

arya samaj.

Thanks for your response.
Is'nt Arya Samaj a sect of Hinduism with no caste? Something like Jainism or Sikhism.
Correct me if I am wrong but haven't Arya Samajis claimed minority status in India?

They are Buddhist and so the Buddhist caste system apply on them.

THANKS! Am better educated on this topic now.
Ok so Buddhism in India has a caste
system and is different from Buddhism in Japan, and Korea

Muslims converting to Hinduism and opting for Dalit status?
No. most of them rather choose the arya samaj way to hinduism.

Thanks..This was the most informative answer. So Muslims would choose Arya Samaj over mainstream Vaishnavism or Saivism when joining the Sanatana Dharmi faith.,
One more question please:
The Ghar Wapasi program for conversion of Muslims.
Is it managed by the Arya Samaj or the VHP?
In pre-independence India and the area which is now Pakistan , the Arya Samaj had a shuddhi-karan movement . Is the shuddhi-karan movement on going or is it now part of the Ghar Wapasi program?
What would be the annual target population for conversion ( or Ghar Wapasi) of Indian Muslims?
Example : Ambedkar led about 365,000 to embrace Buddhism.
Is there a similar movement by Muslim leaders like Mukhtar Naqvi who are disenchanted with Islam to lead mass conversions to Islam?
(Note: I am asking this question because fears of Hindus being swamped by Muslim population growth can be assuaged by conversion movements, This would result in less lynching of Muslims.
Has there been an open call by the VHP or Arya Samaj swamis ( Swami Agnivesh? ) inviting Muslims to convert to Sanatana Dharma? )

Mixed marriages :
father's caste mainly, but no such provision is made in India for mixed caste marriages.

Thanks that was informative.
I have a further question, on mixed marriages but will wait for your answers to the above.
Will appreciate your response.