Indian Activist speaks about rampant caste bias among the Indian diaspora in the United States.

[Uguduwa]

India needs its own cultural revolution while learning from mistakes that China made during theirs. It needs to modernize and westernize. Westernization and modernisation are 2 of the most misunderstood words in South Asia. People in that part of the world think Westernizing means speaking in their own English dialect that nobody from any other part of the world can understand or dressing in a certain way. South Asians need to learn from the rest of the world how to get things done efficiently without making too much noise. Caste system is a huge hurdle against development, therefore needs to go.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Stop being childish , I Objectified your questions because they can be easily found on open source i.e. google,

Is google the answer to every thing?
You can search for "Flat Earth" and find a site that supports the theory and also search for Doomsday and find out that the world ended in 2012 according to the Mayan calendar.

Is that hard for you to research such simple things,
Because when you research a certain entity, you should be open to things, having a fixed angle perspective on things, is not going to help you, I observe.

It's not hard to search for most things like for example finding out the best 256 GB USB drive. Finding out the status of post-conversion Indian Muslims to the Santana Dharma is very difficult. Not even the VHP and RSS sites have that data. Also difficult is to find out how the children of those Indian Muslims who have converted to the Sanatana Dharma ( Example: Indian Vice President Mohammed Hidayatullah, don't know what his Hindu name is ...) . I asked this question before because in the case of a failed minor politician of mixed Parsi-Kashmiri-Brahmin-Italian-Catholic blood , his origins appear to be an impediment; his devout practices as a Hindu notwithstanding.

The thing is, you lack basic understanding of India and its culture, makes you accord such statements.

Precisely !
Which is why I need guidance to understand India and its culture.
Someone earlier had referred me to Guru Golwalkar's book "We...or our nation defined " because the book does precisely that. Defines Indian culture and India. However it addresses the case of conversion to the Sanatana Dharna only partially, and instead spells out the rules by which non-Hindus have to live in India. Extracts from the book are widely available on the internet and need not be reproduced here. So I am going a little further than Golwalkar, and seeing what other Hindu intellectuals are saying, such as Sadhvi Pragya, Swami Sakshi Maharaj etc. Apart from election rally rants none have the literary and scholarly ability to actually write a book on the future course of India. Mohan Bhagwat makes his annual Durga Puja speech on national state television but his comments are rambling and imprecise. Guruji Golwalkar , and Doctorji Hedgewar very precisely spelled out the agenda but that is a broad agenda not a specific plan. However they were scholars par-excellence and their command over the language is superb.

I am not in RSS, drop your lens of every hindu is RSS first .
Ignorance

Never said you were an RSS member, and thanks for confirming you are not. My Sanskrit is poor but the way I understand it, a sanghchalak is a general term for one who gives directions or " pilots" a movement.
So basically I am looking for a direction.
Do we stop with Golwalkar on the culture and definition of India?

 

[suyog chavan]

Is google the answer to every thing?
You can search for "Flat Earth" and find a site that supports the theory and also search for Doomsday and find out that the world ended in 2012 according to the Mayan calendar.

But, does Open source means only "Google",
Just recommended google because its easy to find, whereas you are free to find any open source , no probleme.

Never said you were an RSS member and thanks for confirming you are not. My Sanskrit is poor but the way I understand it, a sanghchalak is a general term for one who gives directions ot " pilots" a movement.
So basically I am looking for a direction.
Do we stop with Golwalkar on the culture and definition of India?

You are contradicting yourself over here,

Do we stop with Golwalkar on the culture and definition of India?

Most of the people don't even know Who Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar is,
And definitely his works are forgotten or undermined,
or else Golwlkar was a great man, at par with Dr B. R. Ambedkar, i.e epic clash of ideology.

 

[Baibars_1260]

But, does Open source means only "Google",
Just recommended google because its easy to find, whereas you are free to find any open source , no probleme.

You are contradicting yourself over here,

So clear my "contradictions" and and give me an "open source"'site .
I had earlier given an open source site which were the official on-line archives of Indian parliamentary proceedings where a lawmaker made a speech mentioning the insult to Babu Jagjivan Ram when he unveiled the statue of Sampurnanand (and the statue had to be washed down ). You claimed that as "Fake News " .
So I don't know if that is a contradiction.
I follow your marg darshan and you don't like it.

"Uguduwa, post: 12815176, member: ]. Caste system is a huge hurdle against development, therefore needs to go.

Agree. Which is what this thread is about.
One member here ( @ suyog chavan) with whom I have been interacting has a solution to the removal of the caste system which is conversion to Arya Samaj.
He also suggests Muslims are converting or should convert to the Arya Samaj sect as is the case with Dalits converting from Buddhism to Arya Samaj.
But then confusingly he states that Buddhists in India also have castes.
So what in your mind is the solution?
Is Arya Samaj a solution.
My own stand :
As a left of center idealist myself I support a completely secular, atheist state, with complete separation of state and religion. I only support religion for personal psychological sustenance and mutual community support.
As realist I also understand that South Asia has deep religious divisions and secularism is unlikely to flourish as it did in Europe and North America emerging from Judeo-Christian matrix.

 

[jamahir]

And I am talking of compensating the diwali pollution.

You are going around in circles. Diwali pollution, ban fireworks for Diwali ( and other events during the rest of the year ). Fireworks pollution gone.

And I wrote that lengthy text about pollution that can be removed or reduced from other sectors for permanency. After all it is you who first spoke about pollution from "industries" and that lengthy text was my explanation.

The Thapar clan was among the elite of undivided Punjab and then New Delhi, with connections to the Nehru-Gandhis and Khushwant Singh.
Lal salaam
Now, is The print a biased media too??

Why is Karan Thapar complaining? His dynasty holds a key to Lutyens’ Delhi

The Thapar clan has been among the elites of Punjab and then New Delhi, with familial connections to the Nehru-Gandhis and Khushwant Singh, among others.

theprint.in

I read the article. What's your point ?

Casteist lies don't even spare president of India.
Communists at their best,high time in India nowadays.

Well, Casteism didn't spare Jagjivan Ram who was a central government minister.

Give me source from the ancient scriptures,
Second hand reviews don't matter

I am sure even if I were to quote ancient scriptures will find the four+outside caste formation. Can you say it is otherwise ?

 

[suyog chavan]

I read the article. What's your point ?

karan thapar was a biased journalist, maybe congress chamcha

Well, Casteism didn't spare Jagjivan Ram who was a central government minister.

Fake,
He never witnessed discrimination prior to joining politics says it all , mate.

I am sure even if I were to quote ancient scriptures will find the four+outside caste formation. Can you say it is otherwise ?

Absolutely, there is no fifth varna or otherwise, As you Mentioned , which means your are deemed in carrying false perspective with you,

These four classification of human beings are called the four "VARNAS".

A follower of a "Knowledge based" profession is called a "Brahmin";
A follower of a "Justice / state administration based" profession is called a "Kshatriya";
and a follower of an "finance / economics based" profession is called a "Vaishya".
Anyone who is following peasant, labour profession is called a "Shudra".

 

[letsrock]

Its not necessary to always initiate a certain incident with whole situation and scenario.
you need to have knowledge of whole situation during the coronation period and the conspiracy of the opposition feudal lords to the great chattrapati shivaji maharaj.

Who was baji prabhu despande, he sacrificed his life for raje in the battle of pavankhind ?

who were Janambhat Abhyankar and Dadambhat Abhyankar who were stationed at Sindhudurg fort by Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj did not desert Sindhudurg fort till their death ?

Who were this men, After Chhatrapati Shivaji’s escape from from Agra, two of his devoted attendants, namely Dabir and Korde were arrested by Aurangzeb’s soldiers. These two had kept Sambhaji Maharaj hidden at Mathura, but did not disclose it despite being subject to everyday lashings and torture in Aurangzeb’s prison.?

there are hundreds of more examples.

>Gau-Brahmin pratipalak< what is the meaning of this title, given to Chattrapati Shivaji Maharaj.

What a pathetic justification for the humiliation of sivaji. Mughals also built irrigation canals, defended rajputs in alliances, brits also built railways and logically you should forget all their excesses and as long as some favors are done then you will allow yourself to be humiliated.

A follower of a "Knowledge based" profession is called a "Brahmin";
A follower of a "Justice / state administration based" profession is called a "Kshatriya";
and a follower of an "finance / economics based" profession is called a "Vaishya".
Anyone who is following peasant, labour profession is called a "Shudra".

hahaha when did you see a dalit become brahaman because he is a professor and when did a brahmin lose his caste because he does dances in films for money. Have you ever seen a person changing caste in india ? Pathetic delusional lying person. Another clone made by hindutva factory with no thinking whatsover.

@SuperStar20

 

[suyog chavan]

What a pathetic justification for the humiliation of sivaji. Mughals also built irrigation canals, defended rajputs in alliances, brits also built railways and logically you should forget all their excesses and as long as some favors are done then you will allow yourself to be humiliated.

JUSTIFICATION, lol
WTH would I justiffy you, I dont give a damn What you think about the coronation conspiracy heading around ,Chtarrapati Shivaji Maharaj was a staunch hindu sanatani and was given titles as such,
Stating counters and facts ,

 

[letsrock]

JUSTIFICATION, lol
WTH would I justiffy you, I dont give a damn What you think about the coronation conspiracy heading around ,Chtarrapati Shivaji Maharaj was a staunch hindu sanatani and was given titles as such,
Stating counters and facts ,

Yea "lol" thats all you can do really. Hows the delusional world where people change their castes based on profession coming along ? maybe once you stop smoking whatever you are.

 

[suyog chavan]

hahaha when did you see a dalit become brahaman because he is a professor and when did a brahmin lose his caste because he does dances in films for money. Have you ever seen a person changing caste in india ? Pathetic delusional lying person. Another clone made by hindutva factory with no thinking whatsover.

Why dont you answer this questions first, maybe you might get your answer here,

Who was baji prabhu despande, he sacrificed his life for raje in the battle of pavankhind ?

who were Janambhat Abhyankar and Dadambhat Abhyankar who were stationed at Sindhudurg fort by Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj did not desert Sindhudurg fort till their death ?

Who were this men, After Chhatrapati Shivaji’s escape from from Agra, two of his devoted attendants, namely Dabir and Korde were arrested by Aurangzeb’s soldiers. These two had kept Sambhaji Maharaj hidden at Mathura, but did not disclose it despite being subject to everyday lashings and torture in Aurangzeb’s prison.?

there are hundreds of more examples.

>Gau-Brahmin pratipalak< what is the meaning of this title, given to Chattrapati Shivaji Maharaj.

Yea "lol" thats all you can do really. Hows the delusional world where people change their castes based on profession coming along ? maybe once you stop smoking whatever you are.

Drop your western abhramic lens and you will know,

 

[letsrock]

Why dont you answer this questions first, maybe you might get your answer here,

Who was baji prabhu despande, he sacrificed his life for raje in the battle of pavankhind ?

who were Janambhat Abhyankar and Dadambhat Abhyankar who were stationed at Sindhudurg fort by Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj did not desert Sindhudurg fort till their death ?

Who were this men, After Chhatrapati Shivaji’s escape from from Agra, two of his devoted attendants, namely Dabir and Korde were arrested by Aurangzeb’s soldiers. These two had kept Sambhaji Maharaj hidden at Mathura, but did not disclose it despite being subject to everyday lashings and torture in Aurangzeb’s prison.?

there are hundreds of more examples.

>Gau-Brahmin pratipalak< what is the meaning of this title, given to Chattrapati Shivaji Maharaj.

Drop your western abhramic lens and you will know,

I already answered that - you will always find helpful people in invaders/occupiers/supremacists too. That doesnt mean their supremacy/occupation/invasion is justified.

 

[suyog chavan]

I already answered that - you will always find helpful people in invaders/occupiers/supremacists too. That doesnt mean their supremacy/occupation/invasion is justified.

Now this is called justification to be precise,
Should have given staright answer,

 

[Baibars_1260]

Most of the people don't even know Who Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar is,
And definitely his works are forgotten or undermined,
or else Golwlkar was a great man, at par with Dr B. R. Ambedkar, i.e epic clash of ideology.

1 billion people support VHP-BJP-RSS founded on the ideology of Golwalkar and you claim Golwalkar is forgotten and "undermined".
"at par with Ambedkar "!?
and "clash of ideology ?"
You just trashed Ambedkar by dumping the whole Agniveer site on this forum and then you are placing Ambedkar and Golwalkar on the same level. Then you claim a " clash " of ideology when on the basic ideology of the hatred of Islam and Muslims both Ambedkar and Golwalkar are one.
Confused !
Could you clarify to a dumb Pakistani mleche landya like me what you mean?

 

[suyog chavan]

I already answered that - you will always find helpful people in invaders/occupiers/supremacists too. That doesnt mean their supremacy/occupation/invasion is justified.

Exactly,
you will always find helpful people in invaders/occupiers/supremacists too. That doesnt mean islamic mughals, afghans, nizams, nawabs, sultanates - supremacy/occupation/invasion is justified.

1 billion people support VHP-BJP-RSS founded on the ideology of Golwalkar and you claim Golwalkar is forgotten and "undermined".

Insanity at its best,
Baseless claims are the base of your allegations, isn't it??

"at par with Ambedkar "!?
and "clash of ideology ?"

I stand by it ??
An epic clash of ideology.

You just trashed Ambedkar by dumping the whole Agniveer site on this forum and then you are placing Ambedkar and Golwalkar on the same level. Then you claim a " clash " of ideology when on the basic ideology of the hatred of Islam and Muslims both Ambedkar and Golwalkar are one.

Now I am doubtful, If you ever read or maybe understood thoughts of Ambedkar
Cursing Pakistan doesn't have any value on ideologies . that's secondary with least importance when comparing or distinguishing two different ideologies ,
whereas you making it a foundation for forming ideologies of Ambedkar vs Golwalkar doesn't make sense

 

[Baibars_1260]

Well, Casteism didn't spare Jagjivan Ram who was a central government

suyog chavan said:
Give me source from the ancient scriptures,
Second hand reviews don't matter
inister.

I am sure even if I were to quote ancient scriptures will find the four+outside caste formation. Can you say it is otherwise ?

Correct!
suyog chavan won't accept references to scriptures. Ambedkar has made specific references to the scriptures in every one of his writings and that was dismissed for lack of understanding . When I mentioned the case of Shambhuka and the perils of adwijas trying to learn the scriptures he was silent, I could give other references such as the Ramnami sect who tattoo the name of Lord Ram all over their bodies including their tongues so that if their bodies are thrashed or their tongues cut off those who would be doing so would be abusing the name of Lord Ram.
This report mentions how the Ramnamis were denied the use of temples and drinking water:

The tattooed rebels: Chhattisgarh’s Ramnamis fight caste with full-bodied ‘Ram Ram’ tattoos

The Ramnami Samaj is a religious movement founded by Scheduled Caste Ram devotees in the late 19th century in Chhattisgarh. Denied entry to temples and forced to use separate wells, these low-caste Hindus first tattooed their bodies and faces more than 100 years ago as an act of defiance and...

indianexpress.com

Insanity at its best,
Baseless claims are the base of your allegations, isn't it??

Insanity?
Well if you call it that; if 1 billion people stand by their TV screens tuned to the National Doordarshsn channel ( and carried by every other channel both cable and digital as well). and listen to Mohan Bhagwat of the RSS espouse Golwalkar's ideals...
So how is my claim baseless?

RSS Chief Mohan Bhagwat adresses nation on Dussehra, talks about CAA, Ram Mandir & COVID-19 concerns

On The occasion of Dussehra, RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat is addressing the nation. From COVID-19 concerns to issues revolving around CAA to Ram Mandir, Mohan Bhagwat covers everything in his speech.He says ‘This year the event will be held as per the government's guidelines in view of the pandemic...

www.timesnownews.com

I stand by it ??
An epic clash of ideology.

Where is the clash? The ideology is united on elimination and massacres Muslims from the subcontinent and the removal of Islam from the subcontinent and possibly the world.
The caste issues are given very little mention in Golwalkars writings though he does argue for pan-Hindu ( casteless )unity against Muslims.
Ambedkar writes about caste issues but that is secondary to his ultimate goal of massacring Muslims into extinction.
The ideological clash Ambedkar generates is in perception of the scriptures.
Golwalkar represents the Dharma and the eternal truth. Ambedkar obviously distorts the scriptures to undermine the Dharma . So only one of the two is correct. Since Ambedkar's is a minority opinion and no Sanatani Hindu intellectual, spiritual guide, and mentor has ever supported Ambedkar he is fringe phenomenon. Leading swamis, mahants, and gurus and enlightened community leaders ( particularly from the Saraswat and Chitpawan Maharashtrian Brahmin community) have all condemned Ambedkar for sowimg divisions in the Hindu community .

Now I am doubtful, If you ever read or maybe understood thoughts of Ambedkar
Cursing Pakistan doesn't have any value on ideologies . that's secondary with least importance when comparing or distinguishing two different ideologies ,
whereas you making it a foundation for forming ideologies of Ambedkar vs Golwalkar doesn't make sense

Read my previous comment.
Cursing Muslims and planning their extinction is not secondary to their respective ideologies but is in fact a core point
Both Ambedkar and Golwalkar curse Muslims, Islam and Pakistan.
Ambedkar wants their elimination but has no plan.
We were not discussing elimination of Muslims. Your views as well as the views of your 1.4 billion compatriots is clear on this. Every Muslim on the streets of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh understands this. What we were discussing is caste and how it is viewed by Golwalkar and Ambedkar. Both are agreed on the removal of caste divisions. The difference in perception is:
1. The cause of caste divisions;
Ambedkar says it is rooted in
scriptures. Golwalkar ( a majority opinion) denies this and attributes caste divisions to foreign manipulation of Hindu society over the centuries of foreign rule. Golwalkar maintains that prior to Muslim invasions India had a harmonious well balanced social structure ( Vedic era). Ambedkar of course disputes this.
2. Solution to the caste problem:
Ambedkar wants social reforms along with the elimination of Muslims.
Golwalkar advocates the upliftment of all Hindus to an upper caste and the relegation of the surviving Muslims to a new Dalit untouchable class as they convert to Hinduism.
In this manner Golwalkar is more realistic that it may be impossible to physically eliminate all Muslims from the subcontinent but like the Dravidian asuras can be relegated to the bottom status