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Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

cross posted

since the souring of relations because of Gorshokov India has:
leased Akula, bought more t-90's ,bought more MIG-29, did MIG-29 upgrades,collaborated on chandradayaan 2, collaborated on ATV, bought more sukois, and started work on Brahmos 2 , and getting ready to test PAK-FA,if this is what happens when relations go sour what can we expect when relations improve??
 
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Just came across an article today.

India-Russia ties: Calibrating a fine balance

On the eve of Defence Minister A K Antony's visit to Moscow, Rup Narayan Das notes that Russia has always been a friend at crucial junctures and India needs to nurture that relationship.
Defence Minister A K Antony begins a three-day visit to Moscow on October 13 to co-chair the India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation. The visit, coming as it is, on the heels of President Pratibha Devisingh Patil's high-profile visit to Russia in September and ahead of Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh's proposed visit to Russia in December, is another important step in the bilateral relationship between the two countries.

Although major events in recent times have changed the trajectory of world politics and equations between and among countries, India-Russia relations have not only withstood the test of time, but have also grown from strength to strength.

The relations between the two countries have been redefined taking into account new realities and without losing the basic tenets and fundamentals that have sustained them all these years.

No words perhaps can better describe the time-tested relationship between the two countries than what President Patil told her Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev during her visit, that 'our unique bilateral relationship' defied the dictum that 'there are no permanent friends but only permanent interests', and added that 'the bonds between India and the Russian Federation are special and enduring and founded on civilisational and historical ties between the two countries'.

It is significant that there has been regular exchange of visits at various levels between India and Russia and the leaders of the two countries have been meeting at regular intervals not only at bilateral summit meetings but also at the margins of multilateral meetings.

It is pertinent that after the formation of the second United Progressive Alliance government, Dr Singh visited Russia in June to participate in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and the Brazil-Russia-China-India Summit meetings in Yekaterinurg in the Russian Urals. As India is not a member of the SCO, India's participation there had been low key and New Delhi had been represented at such meetings at a ministerial level.

As an observer State in the SCO, India participated in the annual meeting of the heads of State and heads of government in Dushanbe and Astana in August and October 2008 respectively. Petroleum Minister Murli Deora represented India at the heads of State meeting and Power Minister Sushil Shinde led the Indian delegation at the heads of government meeting.

During the meeting of heads of State, the SCO decided to raise the cooperation with the organisation to a qualitatively new level. Subsequently, India had been invited to SCO ministerial meetings in the field of economy and transport.

This time around, however, as both the SCO and BRIC summit meetings were held at the same time in Yekaterinburg, after thoughtful deliberation, Dr Singh decided to participate in the summit meetings held under Russia's chairmanship.

It was a resounding gesture to Moscow which also reciprocated by facilitating Dr Singh's participation in the SCO summit meeting, not withstanding India's observer status.

Ever since Independence, Russia has always played a very important role in India's economic development and also in developing India's defence capability and space programme.

In the late 1950s, India and Russia signed agreements on the construction of major industrial facilities that became the fulcrum of India's economy and industry. Russia provided technical assistance in the construction of steel plants in Bhilai, Bokoro and Visakhapatnam, and the aluminum plant in Korba, a heavy duty electrical equipment plant in Hardwar, an engineering plant in Ranchi, a mining equipment plant in Durgapur, refineries in Varanasi, and Mathura and a series of hydro and thermal power plants.

In 1970, the two countries joined hands in space exploration. Aryabhatta, the first Indian satellite, was launched in 1975 from Russian spaceport and in 1984 Rakesh Sharma became the first Indian man in space on board a Soyuz T-II space craft.

The India-Russia relationship suffered a little bit after the disintegration of the erstwhile Soviet Union. However, it picked up steam after Vladimir Putin took over the reins of power in Moscow. In fact, he can be considered the magnet of India-Russia friendship and cooperation.

Putin's very first visit to India as President in October 2000 gave a new resonance to the bilateral relations between the two countries which witnessed the signing of the landmark declaration on a strategic partnership and set the stage for much closer defence ties between the two countries. Putin put the partnership with India on a rock solid base of what he described in 2000 as 'the concurrence of long term national geopolitical interest of Russia and India'.

It was during Putin's visit, as chief guest at the Republic Day celebrations in 2007, that the memorandum of intent to add four units to the nuclear power plant under construction at Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu was signed.

In a joint statement on cooperation in 'peaceful use of nuclear energy, both countries committed themselves to further developing international cooperation to promote the use of nuclear energy'. It was decided that both the counties would work together to expand civilian nuclear energy cooperation aimed at enabling India to realise its goal of promoting nuclear power and energy security in a self sustaining manner.

Subsequently, the signing of the civilian nuclear cooperation between India and Russia during President Medvedev's visit in December 2008 was the consummation of Moscow's sustained commitment to help India build its nuclear capacity for civilian nuclear use.

Moscow's commitment to enable India to produce nuclear energy can be gauged from the fact that when fuel levels at the Tarapur atomic power plant were dangerously low and India was trying very hard to find fuel after the July 18, 2005 nuclear agreement with the US, Russia decided to supply 60 tonnes of uranium to safeguard the Tarapur 1 and 2 nuclear reactors and continue providing nuclear power to India's western power grid.

The Russian decision was a welcome relief to India. Russia informed the Nuclear Suppliers Group that it intended to supply fuel immediately to Tarapur under its safety exception clause.

The NSG guidelines permit export of nuclear fuel to countries without UN approved safeguards on reactors only if they are needed to prevent or correct a radiological hazard to public health and safety which cannot reasonably be met by other means. The safety exception clause in the NSG guidelines was resorted to by Russia earlier in 2001 to supply fuel to Tarapur.

Besides civilian nuclear cooperation, yet another significant outcome of Medvedev's visit was the deal to buy 80 Mi17 V-5 helicopters for the Indian Air Force. BrahMos Aerospace is yet another outstanding example of trust, achievement and friendship between two nations. The joint venture was formed through an inter-governmental agreement signed between the two countries in 1998 which stipulated design, development, production of the BrahMos weapon system for India and Russia and also for export to friendly countries.

Within a span of seven years the company has designed, developed, produced and delivered a formidable weapon system, which is far superior in performance to existing cruise missiles.

India has also become the only country that will use Russia's global navigation satellite system.

Russia is the only country which has offered sensitive and advanced defence technology to India and helped at critical junctures. At a time when geopolitics is passing through a churning process, it is all the more appropriate that India must fine-tune the imperatives of its foreign policy postulates.

It is time India calibrated a policy of what the late prime minister Indira Gandhi used to call equi-proximity rather than equi-distance between the US and Russia. India must follow what the celebrated international studies expert Joseph Nye calls 'smart diplomacy' and pursue a policy of inclusive global engagement bilaterally and multilaterally.

Rup Narayan Das

India-Russia ties: Calibrating a fine balance: Rediff.com news
 
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well on the contrary........when indians get this mamoth sailing across the indian ocean ....this will become the epicentre of the highest level friendship in the history of both these countries....

Indeed it will be. Though we have to wait a little longer than we would have liked too. Surely this delay and increase in cost is an irritant yet the way i look at it is -
a) This deal is going to be and eye-opener for people on both sides and will surely go as a lessons learnt in future India/Russia defence deals.
b) Going by the current geo-politics india has the advantage of buying defence equipments from US, Israel, EU and Russia and we would not like to loose this edge.. especially with US reputation when it comes to providing spare parts and TOT
c) On the other hand India is the biggest source of $$$ for russia in arms dealing and given the current competition they are facing(US, EU, Israel) russia will hate to see India drifting away from her.

It looks like India/Russia friendship is going to improve than degrade even thogh Gorshkov is the biggest irritant at persent
 
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That said, India would have spent $4 billion to build a 40,000 ton aircraft carrier. But for $3.5 billion, the Indians are getting completely refitted aircraft carrier from the Russians along with the deadly MiG-29Ks. It is still a good deal and India will still go along with it.
Is it? A 22 year old carrier that had a major accident and that comes with 16 good, but way less capable fighters (no AESA, less payload, RCS) compared to other actual carrier aircrafts.
The new America class amphibious assault ship, which has a displacement of 45 000t, should cost $2 billion dollars. Now with cost overruns it will cost $3 billion, if you add also 16 F35B fighters (~ $ 100 million each) you will pay only $1,1 billion more for a new, bigger and more capable carrier with latest 5. gen fighters.
Not to mention that we could have build a new Vikrant class carrier, by the time the Gorshkov was refitted.

The deal is totally not worth it and should be dumped if it is still possible!
 
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Is it? A 22 year old carrier that had a major accident and that comes with 16 good, but way less capable fighters (no AESA, less payload, RCS) compared to other actual carrier aircrafts.
The new America class amphibious assault ship, which has a displacement of 45 000t, should cost $2 billion dollars. Now with cost overruns it will cost $3 billion, if you add also 16 F35B fighters (~ $ 100 million each) you will pay only $1,1 billion more for a new, bigger and more capable carrier with latest 5. gen fighters.
Not to mention that we could have build a new Vikrant class carrier, by the time the Gorshkov was refitted.

The deal is totally not worth it and should be dumped if it is still possible!

who is selling one??
 
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Russia, India agree to sign new deal on aircraft carrier overhaul

DUBAI, November 15 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will soon sign a new deal with India on additional funds to finish a refit of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, Russia's state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Sunday.

"The negotiations were uneasy but the Indian side treated with understanding the existing problems. They recognized the need to additionally finance the contract and in the near future this will be formalized," Mikhail Zavaliy, Rosoboronexport director for special missions said at a major air show in the Middle East.

The Dubai Air Show is running on November 15-19 in the United Arab Emirates. Over 900 companies from about 50 countries, including 24 Russian firms, take part in the event.

Under the original $1.5 billion 2004 contract between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy, which includes delivery of MiG-29K Fulcrum carrier-based fighters, the work on the aircraft carrier was to have been completed in 2008.

However, Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernization, and asked for an additional $1.2 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant."

After long-running delays and disputes, India offered in February 2008 to raise the refit costs for the aircraft carrier, docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years, by up to $600 million.

Russia said it was not satisfied with the proposed amount and the issue of the additional funding remained unresolved until now.
Admiral Gorshkov is a modified Kiev class aircraft carrier, originally named Baku.

The ship was laid down in 1978 at the Nikolayev South shipyard in Ukraine, launched in 1982, and commissioned with the Soviet Navy in 1987.

It was renamed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
In 1994, following a boiler room explosion, the Admiral Gorshkov sat in dock for a year for repairs. After a brief return to service in 1995, it was finally withdrawn from service in 1996 and put up for sale.
The ship's displacement is 45,000 tons. It has maximum speed of 32 knots and an endurance of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 km) at a cruising speed of 18 knots.

Russia, India agree to sign new deal on aircraft carrier overhaul | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

Even after the additional payment, Gorshkov will cost India less than US$2.5 billion which also includes an entire fleet of the deadly MiG-29K.

Not a bad deal...
 
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The protracted bitter wrangling over huge cost escalation in aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which caused a distinct chill in the expansive Indo-Russian defence ties, is virtually over now.

After three Indian delegations visited Russia one after the other last month, the two sides came together in New Delhi on Tuesday-Wednesday for the `firm and final' price negotiations to break the festering deadlock. :taz:

"We are confident the total cost for Gorshkov's refit will be pegged somewhere around $2.2 billion,'' said a top Indian official. :cheesy:

India has already managed to `reduce' the $600 million figure being asked by Russia for the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov's year-long sea trials in the Barents Sea slated for 2011-2012. :woot:

While most of the trials will still be held in Russia, apart from training of Indian pilots for MiG-29K take-offs and landings from Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, some will now be conducted in Indian waters to cut costs. :devil:

Defence minister A K Antony, on his part, told Parliament on Wednesday that "acceptance trials'' for delivery of Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, to India are `expected to be completed' in December 2012. ;)

India, of course, is banking upon Gorshkov for its long-standing aim to have two operational `carrier battle-groups' by 2015 or so, with the other carrier, a 40,000-tonne indigenous warship, being built at Cochin Shipyard.

Incidentally, during a recent visit to Sevmash Shipyard in north Russia where Gorshkov is berthed, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the delay in the carrier's upgradation was `the sole irritant' in Indo-Russian relations. :whistle:

As first reported by TOI, the new contract for repair and re-equipping of Gorshkov -- for which India has already paid $602 million till now -- will be one of the first big defence procurements to be cleared by UPA-2 towards end-July or early-August.

That will finally bring closure to Gorshkov's controversy-ridden saga, which began in the mid-1990s with Russia offering the second-hand, partly-burnt carrier as "a free gift''. The condition was that India would pay for its refit as well as the MiG-29K fighters to operate from its deck.

The $1.5-billion contract was finally inked in January 2004, with the carrier refit costing $974 million and the rest for 16 MiG-29Ks. Under it, Gorshkov was to be delivered by August 2008.

But then came the shocker. Russia in mid-2007 demanded another $1.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit in addition to the initial $974 million, apart from pushing back its delivery to December 2012, holding that work on it had been "grossly under-estimated'' earlier.

Though after much heart-burn, India eventually agreed, more was to follow. Russia last year said it now wanted $2 billion more for refit, taking the total cost to around $2.9 billion. India, of course, wants the figure down to the $2.2-billion mark. :thinktank:


here is the link


ASIAN DEFENCE: India to pay around $2.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit to end wrangling


:flame:
 
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Not a bad deal...

Well if you are looking from share point of economics(i mean $$$) then yes but if you look from an overall perspective...hmmmm it is a very bad deal...Vikramaditya should have been an asset of our navy by now but we need to wait for another 2-3 years..and had to rely on 50 years old AC...
 
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India to pay around $2.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit to end wrangling
The protracted bitter wrangling over huge cost escalation in aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which caused a distinct chill in theexpansive Indo-Russian defence ties, is virtually over now.

After three Indian delegations visited Russia one after the other last month, the two sides came together in New Delhi on Tuesday-Wednesday for the `firm and final' price negotiations to break the festering deadlock.

"We are confident the total cost for Gorshkov's refit will be pegged somewhere around $2.2 billion,'' said a top Indian official.

India has already managed to `reduce' the $600 million figure being asked by Russia for the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov's year-long sea trials in the Barents Sea slated for 2011-2012.

While most of the trials will still be held in Russia, apart from training of Indian pilots for MiG-29K take-offs and landings from Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, some will now be conducted in Indian waters to cut costs.

Defence minister A K Antony, on his part, told Parliament on Wednesday that "acceptance trials'' for delivery of Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, to India are `expected to be completed' in December 2012.

India, of course, is banking upon Gorshkov for its long-standing aim to have two operational `carrier battle-groups' by 2015 or so, with the other carrier, a 40,000-tonne indigenous warship, being built at Cochin Shipyard.

Incidentally, during a recent visit to Sevmash Shipyard in north Russia where Gorshkov is berthed, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the delay in the carrier's upgradation was `the sole irritant' in Indo-Russian relations.

As first reported by TOI, the new contract for repair and re-equipping of Gorshkov -- for which India has already paid $602 million till now -- will be one of the first big defence procurements to be cleared by UPA-2 towards end-July or early-August.

That will finally bring closure to Gorshkov's controversy-ridden saga, which began in the mid-1990s with Russia offering the second-hand, partly-burnt carrier as "a free gift''. The condition was that India would pay for its refit as well as the MiG-29K fighters to operate from its deck.

The $1.5-billion contract was finally inked in January 2004, with the carrier refit costing $974 million and the rest for 16 MiG-29Ks. Under it, Gorshkov was to be delivered by August 2008.

But then came the shocker. Russia in mid-2007 demanded another $1.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit in addition to the initial $974 million, apart from pushing back its delivery to December 2012, holding that work on it had been "grossly under-estimated'' earlier.

Though after much heart-burn, India eventually agreed, more was to follow. Russia last year said it now wanted $2 billion more for refit, taking the total cost to around $2.9 billion. India, of course, wants the figure down to the $2.2-billion mark.
 
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The Russians are bilking money with both hands and feet.
 
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