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India turns down US plans to counter China

India is making a big mistake by not siding with the US. Either it will join the US lead western democracy or it will play second fiddle to the China/Soviet SCO camp. India by itself is not strong enough to be an independent player, it will just remain a card to be played by the other countries.

India has to side with both USA and China if her Look-East policy has to succeed.

There is no trade - off here.

However, Indian can gain influence by join the US lead coalition as a equal partner now. Otherwise,

We all saw in MRCA, how equal USA considers India. Even though the NSG waiver was a great effort on USA's part.

USA still doesn't trust India.

it will come begging for American assistance when its more powerful enemies kick the crap out of its decrepit military sometime in the near future.

The only more powerful military threat India faces is China, which alone can't harm India much, India can handle Chinese military threat alone.

Problem of a joint Pakistan - Chinese military offensive is beyond Indian capability to handle, which only India can solve.
 
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The only more powerful military threat India faces is China, which alone can't harm India much, India can handle Chinese military threat alone.

Problem of a joint Pakistan - Chinese military offensive is beyond Indian capability to handle, which only India can solve.

here you are wrong. i find, you may defend yourself even if the whole world may come to your door at one time. just compare China in 90s with India today, China was on gun point by most of others of this region, including military base of US there, Japan/ S Korea etc. but CHina never compromised with its stand on Taiwan. even if China was so weak in late 80s, they gave a clear warning to UK to leave Hong Kong and UK had to understand it.

India is now much more powerful than how China was in 90s,. right now India is 4th ranked in military strength ranking including nuclear holding. you just have to believe that no one can fight with 1.2bil people who have 1.4million active and 1.0mil reserve troops with all high tech arms also like SU30MKI which is one of the best air superiority aircraft, high tech submarines including nuclear submarines, AC, high tech tanks, credible missile defense and long range missiles etc. you are not dependent on external help in any case, you just have to get to know this :tup:
 
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India made a good decision not to join the US in a China containment project. Applying for SCO membership was another good decision. Powers in Eurasian landmass need to have good relations with each other to manage conflicts before they devolve into open hostility. The less the interference from non-local powers the better it is for any given region, because far-away powers can be irresponsible, callous and always wash their hands and then leave when things go wrong, while the neighbors are left holding the bag and have to deal with the mess left behind.

In case of ASEAN+ and GCC+, the small states there need the US, but India does not need the US, to protect itself:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180771-geopolitics-gcc-region.html
 
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here you are wrong. i find, you may defend yourself even if the whole world may come to your door at one time. just compare China in 90s with India today, China was on gun point by most of others of this region, including military base of US there, Japan/ S Korea etc. but CHina never compromised with its stand on Taiwan. even if China was so weak in late 80s, they gave a clear warning to UK to leave Hong Kong and UK had to understand it.

India is now much more powerful than how China was in 90s,. right now India is 4th ranked in military strength ranking including nuclear holding. you just have to believe that no one can fight with 1.2bil people who have 1.4million active and 1.0mil reserve troops with all high tech arms also like SU30MKI which is one of the best air superiority aircraft, high tech submarines including nuclear submarines, AC, high tech tanks, credible missile defense and long range missiles etc. you are not dependent on external help in any case, you just have to get to know this :tup:

Undoubtedly having 4.7 million troops benefits India in a defensive war of attrition, but the problems comes is with logistics and supplies when fighting a war of attrition. 70% of Indian military weapons are still of foreign origin.
 
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Spare me your corrections, save those for your level who don't understand percentages

PS: In percentages 100% is not equal to 70% , even an illiterate can see the shapes of those digits are different :rofl:

sorry but india is 100% dependent on foreign imports for your military.

that is just a fact.
 
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sorry but india is 100% dependent on foreign imports for your military.

that is just a fact.

Again i repeat : In percentages 100% is not equal to 70% :)


PS: Pay more attention to the bolded part. And you don't have to sorry to me for being weak in percentages , its to your employer whom you should be
 
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im pretty sure the US will want to station a military base in india.

Again i repeat : In percentages 100% is not equal to 70% :)


PS: Pay more attention to the bolded part. And you don't have to sorry to me for being weak in percentages , its to your employer whom you should be

many people here are kids who dont know how politics happened in 70s and 80s, which people of my age use to listen from our elders when I was young.....

just compare Indian friendship with SU/Russia as compare to US/West. SU supported every intention of India to become a powerful/successful nation including Indian nuclear tests in 70s and used Veto power against US/West moves in 70s/80s many times in favor of India, while US/West never wanted a powerful country, whether its China or Even India :disagree:. due to Indian move by forming NAM against NATO, India was recognized as enemy number 2 of US/West after SU in 70s and 80s, while it was the time when West was willing to put China against SU/Russia?

US never offer any military arm with full tech transfer but even if India's 70% arms are foreign made, almost all from Russia, there is no military arm India has without 'full tech transfer'. just have a look on SU30MKI which is one of the best air superiority aircraft of the world, India got its 100% tech from raw to product? same is true for the russian best T90 tanks, support in all most every area of defense for India with whatever best Russia has? even till 1990, per capita income on PPP of RUssia/SU was just around 70% to Britain but even if economic size of US was around twice to that of SU, SU was regarded as a more powerful super power as compare to the 2nd super power US? but SU/Russia never wanted to keep its any of friend on gun point like US? friendship of India with SU made India get whatever best arms Russia had with full tech transfer including full support in other areas like space research, but the same you cant even dream while friendship with US/West :no:

even right now, you may say that Russia is developing 5th gen PAK FA but India is involved from design to production phase while sharing every key tech of Russia, then how will India said to be losing anything even if it will have this best aircraft of the world, PAK FA/FGFA, with help of RUssia? similarly India is going for manned space mission with Russian input also because India has this benefit to get help in the areas of defense, space research etc but not other countries? India does has its own LCA/Tejus program, own nuclear submarine, aircraft carrier build up, own missiles and missile defense etc. with that, none of Indian arms comes to India without full techs from Russia, whether India developed those techs by itself or it was under full tech transfer agreement with Russia :meeting:
 
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you guys seem to have realized that the war in afghanistan / iraq was hurtful not only by way of getting your A$$ kicked...
It get to the point where anytime I see someone say the US got militarily defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan I pretty much ignore the rest of the post.
 
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many people here are kids who dont know how politics happened in 70s and 80s, which people of my age use to listen from our elders when I was young.....

just compare Indian friendship with SU/Russia as compare to US/West. SU supported every intention of India to become a powerful/successful nation including Indian nuclear tests in 70s and used Veto power against US/West moves in 70s/80s many times in favor of India, while US/West never wanted a powerful country, whether its China or Even India :disagree:. due to Indian move by forming NAM against NATO, India was recognized as enemy number 2 of US/West after SU in 70s and 80s, while it was the time when West was willing to put China against SU/Russia?

US never offer any military arm with full tech transfer but even if India's 70% arms are foreign made, almost all from Russia, there is no military arm India has without 'full tech transfer'. just have a look on SU30MKI which is one of the best air superiority aircraft of the world, India got its 100% tech from raw to product? same is true for the russian best T90 tanks, support in all most every area of defense for India with whatever best Russia has? even till 1990, per capita income on PPP of RUssia/SU was just around 70% to Britain but even if economic size of US was around twice to that of SU, SU was regarded as a more powerful super power as compare to the 2nd super power US? but SU/Russia never wanted to keep its any of friend on gun point like US? friendship of India with SU made India get whatever best arms Russia had with full tech transfer including full support in other areas like space research, but the same you cant even dream while friendship with US/West :no:

even right now, you may say that Russia is developing 5th gen PAK FA but India is involved from design to production phase while sharing every key tech of Russia, then how will India said to be losing anything even if it will have this best aircraft of the world, PAK FA/FGFA, with help of RUssia? similarly India is going for manned space mission with Russian input also because India has this benefit to get help in the areas of defense, space research etc but not other countries? India does has its own LCA/Tejus program, own nuclear submarine, aircraft carrier build up, own missiles and missile defense etc. with that, none of Indian arms comes to India without full techs from Russia, whether India developed those techs by itself or it was under full tech transfer agreement with Russia :meeting:


Indeed Russia/SU is true friend of India...... always backed us during bad and good times........cheers............. many people over here not able to understand one thing...... we are importing some weapons from west ,it doesn't mean we are siding an true friend Russia.... we are just getting best tech available to us......


An strong India,Russia,China will be dead lock for US.......... So they are trying to avoid that deadlock by moving close with India..... that's why they are offering best weapons, simply we are using the chance...... that's it........... at the same time as we have issues with china, and due to china-pakistan friendship we are just aware of it..... but we won't allow west/US to use our soil to contain any Asian countries.... because we are neighbors ......the issues we have between us, will be our internal problems....... If people over here can't understand it......no comments on those troll's........
 
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many people here are kids who dont know how politics happened in 70s and 80s, which people of my age use to listen from our elders when I was young.....

just compare Indian friendship with SU/Russia as compare to US/West. SU supported every intention of India to become a powerful/successful nation including Indian nuclear tests in 70s and used Veto power against US/West moves in 70s/80s many times in favor of India, while US/West never wanted a powerful country, whether its China or Even India :disagree:. due to Indian move by forming NAM against NATO, India was recognized as enemy number 2 of US/West after SU in 70s and 80s, while it was the time when West was willing to put China against SU/Russia?

US never offer any military arm with full tech transfer but even if India's 70% arms are foreign made, almost all from Russia, there is no military arm India has without 'full tech transfer'. just have a look on SU30MKI which is one of the best air superiority aircraft of the world, India got its 100% tech from raw to product? same is true for the russian best T90 tanks, support in all most every area of defense for India with whatever best Russia has? even till 1990, per capita income on PPP of RUssia/SU was just around 70% to Britain but even if economic size of US was around twice to that of SU, SU was regarded as a more powerful super power as compare to the 2nd super power US? but SU/Russia never wanted to keep its any of friend on gun point like US? friendship of India with SU made India get whatever best arms Russia had with full tech transfer including full support in other areas like space research, but the same you cant even dream while friendship with US/West :no:

even right now, you may say that Russia is developing 5th gen PAK FA but India is involved from design to production phase while sharing every key tech of Russia, then how will India said to be losing anything even if it will have this best aircraft of the world, PAK FA/FGFA, with help of RUssia? similarly India is going for manned space mission with Russian input also because India has this benefit to get help in the areas of defense, space research etc but not other countries? India does has its own LCA/Tejus program, own nuclear submarine, aircraft carrier build up, own missiles and missile defense etc. with that, none of Indian arms comes to India without full techs from Russia, whether India developed those techs by itself or it was under full tech transfer agreement with Russia :meeting:
So while the Ruskies do provide us with weapons, they do the same to China as well. So that is a failed argument in my opinion. Given the unchangeable geography [and the anti-US sentiments], they are more or less much better partners of China then of India and will chose Chinese ahead of India most of the times.
Plus I also fail to understand how USA plans to contain China, by stationing a few troops here and there, sending a few boats in SCO? Naah. That is not containment in my opinion. Just some blatant self assuring that they will still be the top dawg atleast militarily, in the days to come. On the contrary, almost every move they do seems to help China [economically speaking] and a time will come that the US economy will become too strained to keep up with China if it don't back down. The USA vs USSR replayed.
 
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So while the Ruskies do provide us with weapons, they do the same to China as well. So that is a failed argument in my opinion. Given the unchangeable geography [and the anti-US sentiments], they are more or less much better partners of China then of India and will chose Chinese ahead of India most of the times.
Plus I also fail to understand how USA plans to contain China, by stationing a few troops here and there, sending a few boats in SCO? Naah. That is not containment in my opinion. Just some blatant self assuring that they will still be the top dawg atleast militarily, in the days to come. On the contrary, almost every move they do seems to help China [economically speaking] and a time will come that the US economy will become too strained to keep up with China if it don't back down. The USA vs USSR replayed.

of-course i do agree with you..... but do you know Iranian -Indian-Israel relations.......... Israel-Iran don't like each other but we do have good relations.... and also Turkey-Israel-Iran...... Russians working to minimize US influence ....... as china is ahead of us in many fields..... and more powerful than us...... so raising of china is a threat to US influence, that is why russians working with chinese too ........... of-course raising of china means occupying entire SCS... but without having good relations with neighbors china can't give a competition to USA influence...... if china can resolve it's issues peacefully none of us have any problem with china's raise...... and we should not forget to maintaining minimum deterrence towards china..........
 
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Indeed Russia/SU is true friend of India...... always backed us during bad and good times........cheers............. many people over here not able to understand one thing...... we are importing some weapons from west ,it doesn't mean we are siding an true friend Russia.... we are just getting best tech available to us......


An strong India,Russia,China will be dead lock for US.......... So they are trying to avoid that deadlock by moving close with India..... that's why they are offering best weapons, simply we are using the chance...... that's it........... at the same time as we have issues with china, and due to china-pakistan friendship we are just aware of it..... but we won't allow west/US to use our soil to contain any Asian countries.... because we are neighbors ......the issues we have between us, will be our internal problems....... If people over here can't understand it......no comments on those troll's........

I support China for few certain points as below. I even dream for a very very 'successful' China which will help India become a similar 'success' in future. I first make the 3 main points as below, why I dream for a successful/powerful China. you and other Indian members are most welcomed to prove me wrong on any of the points, which will either make me understand how things are, or, you people will get to know how things are working on the international platform..........

1st, I never participated in any talk while my stay in Australia during last 10 years when western people were ever prepared to accept 'Indian' as a 'successful' identity. I always had a sense that my first proud is my australian citizenship and by saying wrong about India only, I may make myself good. or, say wrong about China and Muslims, if there is any political talks and become good while I do understand, in Western countries, the identity of being Indian is rated below to Chinese itself :D. Western people believe in 'grading' of different nationalities which puts Western European/ Americans on top, Russian/ South American on middle, Chinese/Indian the next and African on bottom, something like this and they want to maintain this 'grading' of nationalities, anyhow. they will never accept a successful different Identiy, whether Chinese or Indian. then here, how saying wrong for China/Chinese is 'correct' if they ranked India lower than China itself???? I strongly believe, a very very successful China/Chinese identity will break down this 'grading' of nationalities/ people/ races. and the time we will reach a world being dominated by China, western media and their people will have changed their attitude to see the rest of the world from the eyes they had during last around 100 years......

2nd, US/West will never let India have high techs :no: we lived in a time of 90s when there was a high voltage drama made by US to stop Russia to transfer technologies of 'cryogenic engine' to India but still Russia helped India get this techs from back door. and even today, have a look on the dramas in NSG, US dont want you to get reprocessing techs of nuclear reactors and and its only Russia who will stand on its words by end, write down somewhere.:) there was a time in 90s, when US used to threaten India with an act if Indian companies did research on even old US's techs while US itself got technologies by help of Indian high qualified professionals. we had to accept that US/West will never let that happen that one day India would start exporting high tech products to US/West and that time people of West will have to do inferior jobs :disagree:. we used to openly say that, "Lion can't have friendship with goat and we can't have friendship with our existential enemies who will never accept India as a 'successful' country." here if you fit CHina then we find China is copying western high techs with such a high pace and making it for so low price that now US is just not concerned with rest of the world, whether they are also doing the similar research on high techs. hence, i dream for the day when China will have finished with 95% western high techs by next 8 to 10 years, say, and then on the back of China, India will also have done the same by next 12 to 13 years, say :meeting:

3rd, just few months before, Indian PM made an open statement that "We will not accept Use of Force to Change Regime". but even if India wanted to oppose UN's resolution against Syria, India was hesitating because of its weak foreign policy while CHina/Russia openly opposed US's move against Change of Regime in Syria. then here, how is it wise to involve China on the regional politics if China may do the work which you yourself can't do on the world platform. as, once US will get habituated of Change of Regime, one day they will knock your door also? :wave: as, if they can't accept a 'successful' China then it simply means you would worry for India also, isn't it? China doesnt want a powerful India then its because we also dont want a powerful China or Pakistan but its very natural among the neighbors. but we won't let this regional politics effect CHina's strength on the international platform as all the developing countries are worried for western efforts of "Use of Force to Change Regimes"? we want a powerful China to resist US, and we would help China in their intention to benefit whole developing world, isn't it?
rest, Russia is also making India with whatever best defense techs they have, as, a powerful India will help Russia to maintain a power balance in Asia also :enjoy:

September 25, 2011

NEW DELHI, Sept. 25 (Xinhua) -- Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Saturday strongly criticized Western countries for using force to change regimes in West Asia and North African countries, reported local newspaper The Times of India Sunday.

In a clear reference to Libya and Syria, Singh told the UN General Assembly session that societies cannot be re-ordered by outsiders through military force and absence of democracy and rule of law cannot be a pretext to violate sovereignty and integrity of countries.

India disapproves of use of force to change regimes: PM - People's Daily Online

just answer you people, how this logic on the above three main points help India a lot. i sincerely find, rise of China provide enormous benefits to India :pop:
 
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