India turns down US plans to counter China

[kalu_miah]

Good discussions going. Hello_10 has got it correct. China will defeat the US in 30-50 years time frame. That is my projection also, just look at the joke of a democracy we have in the US, Republican Scott Walker won in Wisconsin, voted in by a clueless 56% majority, stupid is stupid does. And "peaceful" rise is not just essential for China but for entire Asia, as any conflict will be costly and a setback for all regional states, India, Eurasia+, ASEAN+ or GCC+, the beneficiary will be US/West.

The real problem folks is that the US/West have a racial superiority complex and some idiots like the Japanese and Koreans buying into this nonsense and copy pasting similar ideas for their own race. They simply have a dogmatic belief that USA/West can never become a secondary power, not calling the shots of the world. The only way to defeat this nonsense is a complete and comprehensive economic and military defeat and that will happen in 30-50 years in my opinion. But it will happen, only if Asian powers know how to use USA/West, but not get used and manipulated by USA/West and thus avoid a conflict between Asian powers in Asian land-mass.

But for this to happen, China has to have a mature and extremely far-sighted vision. The regional groups I mentioned can be one vehicle to reduce USA/Western influence in these states, make them semi-independent or perhaps fully independent, which will allow them to make rational decisions based on their own interest rather than under influence of outsiders who want to divide and rule in this Asian space. China for its own interest need to support the formation of these unions, so these regional unions once fully integrated remain allied or at least friendly towards China.

Whichever power will embrace the new "Unite and Share" paradigm rather than the old and obsolete "divide and rule", I believe will become the new predominant power. China has a shot at it, but its not written in stone, the USA/West can recover, reform and make a come back, so can any of the other regional groups, if they take the right course of actions.

Indian strategists need to understand these regional dynamics and then make correct foreign policy decisions. Turning down USA offer was a good choice, so was the move to apply for SCO membership. India, just like China, also must not feel nervous about the regional unions in the Asian space, in its neighborhood such as ASEAN+ and Eurasia+ and the ones a little far like GCC+. Even though they may make smaller states more powerful and less vulnerable to manipulation, the biggest benefit China and India can derive from these regional unions, is that it will stabilize unstable regimes and states and allow the opening up of formerly blocked geographic routes and make entire Asia a very integrated region, which is a good for all Asians.

 

[dunhill]

im pretty sure the US will want to station a military base in india.

It depends, if China keep treats India like boss doing to slaves [look down] then I think India will allows U.S Military base in India. With India to China for now is 9 - 10. With U.S Military base in India the percents increasing for India will be 20 - 10.

However, stop looking down from Chinese to India it seems to be the hardest thing to do for Chinese/China due to their single minded so-called GREAT HAN'S.

 

[Hello_10]

Good discussions going. Hello_10 has got it correct. China will defeat the US in 10-12 years time frame. That is my projection also, just look at the joke of a democracy we have in the US, Republican Scott Walker won in Wisconsin, voted in by a clueless 56% majority, stupid is stupid does. And "peaceful" rise is not just essential for China but for entire Asia, as any conflict will be costly and a setback for all regional states, India, Eurasia+, ASEAN+ or GCC+, the beneficiary will be US/West.

The real problem folks is that the US/West have a racial superiority complex and some idiots like the Japanese and Koreans buying into this nonsense and copy pasting similar ideas for their own race. They simply have a dogmatic belief that USA/West can never become a secondary power, not calling the shots of the world. The only way to defeat this nonsense is a complete and comprehensive economic and military defeat and that will happen in 30-50 years in my opinion. But it will happen, only if Asian powers know how to use USA/West, but not get used and manipulated by USA/West and thus avoid a conflict between Asian powers in Asian land-mass.

But for this to happen, China has to have a mature and extremely far-sighted vision. The regional groups I mentioned can be one vehicle to reduce USA/Western influence in these states, make them semi-independent or perhaps fully independent, which will allow them to make rational decisions based on their own interest rather than under influence of outsiders who want to divide and rule in this Asian space. China for its own interest need to support the formation of these unions, so these regional unions once fully integrated remain allied or at least friendly towards China.

Whichever power will embrace the new "Unite and Share" paradigm rather than the old and obsolete "divide and rule", I believe will become the new predominant power. China has a shot at it, but its not written in stone, the USA/West can recover, reform and make a come back, so can any of the other regional groups, if they take the right course of actions.

Indian strategists need to understand these regional dynamics and then make correct foreign policy decisions. Turning down USA offer was a good choice, so was the move to apply for SCO membership. India, just like China, also must not feel nervous about the regional unions in the Asian space, in its neighborhood such as ASEAN+ and Eurasia+ and the ones a little far like GCC+. Even though they may make smaller states more powerful and less vulnerable to manipulation, the biggest benefit China and India can derive from these regional unions, is that it will stabilize unstable regimes and states and allow the opening up of formerly blocked geographic routes and make entire Asia a very integrated region, which is a good for all Asians.

Kalu Mian, first I corrected your projection about China as I find it overtaking US in major areas by just next 8 to 10 years........

from here, have a look on the technological firms of US, whether GE, GM, MS, their defense sector etc almost 95 professionals there are foreign origins? this simply means 'cultural background' of the country like India is as strong that it produce talented high qualified professionals who helped these Western firms have high techs while the local white of the country like Australia hardly proud on their race, and almost 95% there I found under high school passed? then here, why dont we have resistance to those efforts which may keep these under high school passed western people superior to those Indian/ Chinese professionals who helped these countries have high techs? why would we accept people like Bill Gates as the richest man of the world if even Hotmail was developed by an Indian professional, Sabir Bhatia, and those western businessmen who did business of the skills of the professionals of developing countries, are now richest and the home country of these professionals, the culture which made these high qualified professionals, is poor?

Im pretty much confident that the time world will have been 'equalized', Indian professionals will have put India on the top of the world. just have a look on the results of international exams of engineering, medicines, management etc, where we find the Indian professionals and where the rest of the world is? have a look on the GMAT score of the different part of the world, the GMAT marks which may help you get admission in top ranked universities of the world and then you may get management level jobs by the top western firms as below. there is a generation gap between the marks scored by Indian professionals and rest of the world. we just need to make a world which would help the 'most capable people' to get progress, thats it. and then I may simply leave on the outcome, which will be similar to the GMAT score as below:

Global 200 Top Business Schools 2010 by Region | TOPMBA
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-rank-2nd-last-global-test-4.html#post2495314


and Indians will then become the twice earning group of the world, like how Indian origins are the highest income people in US

According to a 2007 census report, there were as many as 2,765,815 persons of Indian origin living in the United states, constituting 0.9% of the total U.S. population. The median household income for US residents born in India is $91,195 against a $50,740 average for the total population, a recent US survey has revealed. According to the same report, the overall median household income for foreign- born and native US residents is $46,881 and $51,249 respectively.

Indian Americans: The fastest growing and the highest income group

 

[Hello_10]

It depends, if China keep treats India like boss doing to slaves [look down] then I think India will allows U.S Military base in India. With India to China for now is 9 - 10. With U.S Military base in India the percents increasing for India will be 20 - 10.

However, stop looking down from Chinese to India it seems to be the hardest thing to do for Chinese/China due to their single minded so-called GREAT HAN'S.

sir, one day I argued that, "why do Pakistan's rulers beg so much to US for F16s which cost them $70mil each while Chinese best 4th gen J10s are offered to Pakistan for hardly $50mil without any sting attached? this much US bargain with Pakistan for supply of F16 block52 while China even offer loan for its top gun aircraft J10s, as per the recent deal between China and Pakistan."

then we finally had to accept that Western 4+ aircraft like F16 block52 and Mirage2000-5 mk2 are fit in comparison and even if India has to pay around $50mil for upgrading of its old Mirage2000H to 2000-5mk2 standard, its worth but paying even $50mil for a new J10 isn't that wise so Pakistan first demand loan from China before buying J10s from

and here, have a look on the news as below, SU30MKI/SU35, is considered as the biggest threat for any of the US's aircraft. even while evaluating F35, they find SU35/Su30MKI winning over this US's best aircraft. "Super Sukhoi SU30MKI"/SU35BM also has 'semi stealth' capabilities while being on the 'top end side' of air superiority roles with a capable a2g roles also? and India has around 180 SU30mki aircraft in number right now with a total of 270 by 2015, with full techs transfer from Russia from raw to product, while China has around 300 J10s as their top gun?

Part of the presentation showed a computer simulation which calculated that the F-35 would be consistently defeated by the Russian-made SU-35 fighter aircraft. The defeat calculated by the scenario also showed the loss of the F-35's supporting airborne-early warning and air-to-air refueling aircraft.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4416.html

not only in aircraft production but almost in every areas of defense, Russia maintains a good lead over China whether its about 'stealth submarines', 'aircraft carriers', missile defense S300/S400, russian best T90 tanks etc. and all these russian best arms are offered to India with full tech transfer which all are undoubtedly superior to Chinese ones?

sir, a slave is called because of his 'level of thinking', which make him a slave. invading India, which is a nuclear power also, is as hard as invading Russia who use all the best russian arms, and India doesn't need any help from those Western Champions who are themselves more threatened with China. we just have to believe in ourselves and then we find that we dont need any external help from West to defend ourselves. India would simply kick a$$ of US/West and trust in itself, in its professionals/ businessmen who are capable enough to take India on the top of world and our soldiers who may defend indian border with just 2-3 arms in their hands.........

 

[danger007]

I support China for few certain points as below. I even dream for a very very 'successful' China which will help India become a similar 'success' in future. I first make the 3 main points as below, why I dream for a successful/powerful China. you and other Indian members are most welcomed to prove me wrong on any of the points, which will either make me understand how things are, or, you people will get to know how things are working on the international platform..........

1st, I never participated in any talk while my stay in Australia during last 10 years when western people were ever prepared to accept 'Indian' as a 'successful' identity. I always had a sense that my first proud is my australian citizenship and by saying wrong about India only, I may make myself good. or, say wrong about China and Muslims, if there is any political talks and become good while I do understand, in Western countries, the identity of being Indian is rated below to Chinese itself . Western people believe in 'grading' of different nationalities which puts Western European/ Americans on top, Russian/ South American on middle, Chinese/Indian the next and African on bottom, something like this and they want to maintain this 'grading' of nationalities, anyhow. they will never accept a successful different Identiy, whether Chinese or Indian. then here, how saying wrong for China/Chinese is 'correct' if they ranked India lower than China itself???? I strongly believe, a very very successful China/Chinese identity will break down this 'grading' of nationalities/ people/ races. and the time we will reach a world being dominated by China, western media and their people will have changed their attitude to see the rest of the world from the eyes they had during last around 100 years......

2nd, US/West will never let India have high techs we lived in a time of 90s when there was a high voltage drama made by US to stop Russia to transfer technologies of 'cryogenic engine' to India but still Russia helped India get this techs from back door. and even today, have a look on the dramas in NSG, US dont want you to get reprocessing techs of nuclear reactors and and its only Russia who will stand on its words by end, write down somewhere. there was a time in 90s, when US used to threaten India with an act if Indian companies did research on even old US's techs while US itself got technologies by help of Indian high qualified professionals. we had to accept that US/West will never let that happen that one day India would start exporting high tech products to US/West and that time people of West will have to do inferior jobs . we used to openly say that, "Lion can't have friendship with goat and we can't have friendship with our existential enemies who will never accept India as a 'successful' country." here if you fit CHina then we find China is copying western high techs with such a high pace and making it for so low price that now US is just not concerned with rest of the world, whether they are also doing the similar research on high techs. hence, i dream for the day when China will have finished with 95% western high techs by next 8 to 10 years, say, and then on the back of China, India will also have done the same by next 12 to 13 years, say

3rd, just few months before, Indian PM made an open statement that "We will not accept Use of Force to Change Regime". but even if India wanted to oppose UN's resolution against Syria, India was hesitating because of its weak foreign policy while CHina/Russia openly opposed US's move against Change of Regime in Syria. then here, how is it wise to involve China on the regional politics if China may do the work which you yourself can't do on the world platform. as, once US will get habituated of Change of Regime, one day they will knock your door also? as, if they can't accept a 'successful' China then it simply means you would worry for India also, isn't it? China doesnt want a powerful India then its because we also dont want a powerful China or Pakistan but its very natural among the neighbors. but we won't let this regional politics effect CHina's strength on the international platform as all the developing countries are worried for western efforts of "Use of Force to Change Regimes"? we want a powerful China to resist US, and we would help China in their intention to benefit whole developing world, isn't it?
rest, Russia is also making India with whatever best defense techs they have, as, a powerful India will help Russia to maintain a power balance in Asia also



just answer you people, how this logic on the above three main points help India a lot. i sincerely find, rise of China provide enormous benefits to India

Hello-10 i won't agree with you in some points......... If we Asian countries forms like EU, it will be nightmare for west....... Even if India gaining power gradually , but if our neighbors have troubles domestically and Internationally (in economic growth, Insurgents...etc ) will be definitely setback to India.....having disputes with neighbors won't give complete success to any country.....i gave you example..... US installed air defence in EU and in it's ally state's.... to minimize missile threat from russia or from any country...... If china fallows one men army type methods or even with Russia won't give any sense ...... Regional stabilization indeed important...... without having good relationship with neighbors like Vietnam , India,phill....etc will be negative scoring to china...... already phil is an US ally..... and remaining states may move close to US to have security pact.... china itself giving chances to US .......... have you seen that U -shaped lines........ it almost covers all SCS............ china certainly threatening small countries.... it want occupy all SCS.....or china want almost all minerals ,other energy sources in SCS and it don't wanna give any share to ASEAN countries................ what you will comment about it sir..... If china have these kinda policies what is the difference between west and china....

 

[kalu_miah]

Hello_10, are you of Indian origin living in Russia, just curious?

I disagree that China will overtake USA/West in 8-10 years time. I think 30-50 years is more realistic. Trying to bite more than they can chew will cause indigestion, it is better to go slow but steady, in small footsteps.

About India, it has good talents, but you are equating success of Indian middle class with all of India. I wish India well, despite its current harmful policies for some of its neighbors. I am sure they will grow out of these issues in the future. But everyone agrees that Indian rise will take much more time than China's rise. So I will not try to make any prediction about India.

But regardless of the time schedule of the rise of Asian powers and societies, a policy of regional stability using the concept of regionalism to reduce conflicts and interference of outside powers will help Asia in the long run.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Territorial disputes between states is the biggest issues in Asia.
Sorry gentlemen, we should not expect anything in Asia if the issues is still unresolved.
Unfortunately, this issues is very difficult to solve.
And as long as the territorial dispute unresolved, the external powers still have the opportunity to intervene in Asia.
It is stupidity of Asians.

 

[Hello_10]

Hello-10 i won't agree with you in some points......... If we Asian countries forms like EU, it will be nightmare for west....... Even if India gaining power gradually , but if our neighbors have troubles domestically and Internationally (in economic growth, Insurgents...etc ) will be definitely setback to India.....having disputes with neighbors won't give complete success to any country.....i gave you example..... US installed air defence in EU and in it's ally state's.... to minimize missile threat from russia or from any country...... If china fallows one men army type methods or even with Russia won't give any sense ...... Regional stabilization indeed important...... without having good relationship with neighbors like Vietnam , India,phill....etc will be negative scoring to china...... already phil is an US ally..... and remaining states may move close to US to have security pact.... china itself giving chances to US .......... have you seen that U -shaped lines........ it almost covers all SCS............ china certainly threatening small countries.... it want occupy all SCS.....or china want almost all minerals ,other energy sources in SCS and it don't wanna give any share to ASEAN countries................ what you will comment about it sir..... If china have these kinda policies what is the difference between west and china....

I understand your concerns with China but we have to deal with 'Grey Areas' where the things are mixed up. one day I compare India with China with the wonders they have. out of the seven wonders of the world, Indian wonder is Taj Mahal which was made by an Indian king with his love with his wife, using talent of Indian born people, of course. and the China has 'Wall of China' which is sign of their defense preparation the difference between two wonders of two biggest neighbors of Asian, one Taj Mahal sign of Love and one Wall of China, sign of best defense preparation


but I tell you one more comparison between India and China with rest of the world as below:

List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


here you can see, Indian GDP was the highest till 10th century and was on the top in the list by 17th century also with around 27.5% share of world's GDP. here you find, China always shared top two position with India and made India on the second positon in 16th position also, please check the table. and by the 19th and 20th century, both of these two big boy came to the bottom and now again going up. and take my words, China will always share with India on the top two position of the biggest economies of the world, or, both of these two countries will come down together making Western Champions on top, similar to British Raj in 19th and 20th centuries

we are aware of every threat from China but dont you think Russia hasnt fought wars with China in past? have a look on this news as below, Russian change in 'Nuclear Doctrine' is pointed on only China, as, neither US can put that big number of conventional arms on Russian border nor even EU has that big strength which may force Russia to use nuclear ever.

In 1993, Russia dropped a pledge given by the former Soviet Union not to use nuclear weapons first.[5] In 2000, a Russian military doctrine stated that Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons "in response to a large-scale conventional aggression".[6]
No first use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but Russia is Champion in Power Politics, the knowledge of power which Indians lacks by a big margin. in threat of China, you won't surrender to those Western Leaders who are worried to maintain life style of their under high school passed population 'anyhow'. just answer, "why did US/West included China in list of NPT's 5 recognized nuclear powers who may make as many nukes as they want but they always forced India to sign NPT, with having enslaved Japan/Korea type big neighbors of China?" they have kept China in Asia with a big power who may threaten enough to its great neighbors like India, Japan, Korea etc and then US/West may force them all to sign NPT

you people simply not competent enough in 'Power Politics' like your Russian friends . and I would only advice, always have enough strength like Russia to defend yourself, never compromise with your military preparation but at the same time, never come in the position to surrender your sovereignty to US/West also.

rest, whoever Indian is based in US/West would always say good for your home countries, obviously, with saying few wrong about India also if it may help you people solve your problems while living in a Western countries. but those who are based in India have to defend themselves, to their nation India.

 

[danger007]

^^^ that's not proper answer....i said without solving disputes with neighbors how can china question US status...... i made my points....
1. having disputes with neighbors is major set back to any country... in this matter US is always ahead of china or any other country....
2. US got large no of allies , there many major allies in ASIA too... now vietnam inching close towards US.... what kinda position china have regarding in this issue....
3. they build missile defence shield all over EU etc.... which means to stop any missle pointed towards US..... china got 0....
4. even china is not behaving maturely.... unable to understand what is US stance...... behaving rudely with small countries... not giving importance to any other country except Russia, pakistan..... they are thinking low and weak about other countries..... that mindset is very dangerous......
5. we heard china exported counterfeit equipments to US ..... and do you guaranty,that chinese weapons will rolled out without any counterfeit equipments....

 

[Hello_10]

Territorial disputes between states is the biggest issues in Asia.
Sorry gentlemen, we should not expect anything in Asia if the issues is still unresolved.
Unfortunately, this issues is very difficult to solve.
And as long as the territorial dispute unresolved, the external powers still have the opportunity to intervene in Asia.
It is stupidity of Asians.

the main problem we have in Asia is, few countries are very poor and few are very rich and many are on track with higher progress and they dont want to share their wealth with other poor Asian countries. for example, Indian 350mil Upper Middle Class bear very high subsidies/ welfare for the Indian poor and they just dont want Bangladeshi illegal migrants in their country who will put more burden on them. read this news as below, if India may accept to merge with Bangladesh and Pakistan, they will have to double the level of subsidies which Indian middle class dont want to. but here the question is, will the rich countries of Asia like Japan, Singapore, Korea etc will accept to pay subsidies for the poor of Bangladesh type countries, as as much as Indian middle class pay subsidies for Indian poor? (it is estimated that almost 95% people below poverty line in India is based in agriculture sector only.)

“As per statistics, India provides around Rs855 billion subsidy to its farmers to reduce their production cost, whereas Pakistan hardly spends Rs8 billion in this regard. India’s agriculture production cost was around two to three times lower than Pakistan due to these subsidies,” agriculture expert and Agri Forum Pakistan chairman, Ibrahim Mughal said.

MFN status to ruin agriculture, industry alike | The Nation

none of the Middle Class of Asia, whether of Singapore/ Korea/ Malaysia/ Turkey/ China/ India/ Vietnam/ Thailand etc who want to bear burden of subsidies for poor and similarly Indians are threatened with those Bangladeshi 30mil people who have entered in India illegally. just ask the Chinese friends around here, this much Bangladeshi and Pakistani people support China, then, will they accept to pay subsidies for the poor of these two friends of China, at least as much as Indian Middle Class pay for Indian poor? but the same isn't that hard in EU27. even if the country like Germany is facing problem due to poor of Eastern European countries and also with falling economies like Greece/Spain/Italy etc, they may somehow stand as it is. but inequality in Asia is very big and no one would like to bear expanses of heavily populated countries like Bangladesh who just dont have any resource in their country to rise in future

 

[Developereo]

Hello_10, are you of Indian origin

Is the Pope Catholic?

How can you miss these gems?

Indian 350mil Upper Middle Class
[...]
if India may accept to merge with Bangladesh and Pakistan, they will have to double the level of subsidies
[...]
Bangladeshi 30mil people who have entered in India illegally
[...]
heavily populated countries like Bangladesh who just dont have any resource in their country to rise in future

 

[asad71]

the main problem we have in Asia is, few countries are very poor and few are very rich and many are on track with higher progress and they dont want to share their wealth with other poor Asian countries. for example, Indian 350mil Upper Middle Class bear very high subsidies/ welfare for the Indian poor and they just dont want Bangladeshi illegal migrants in their country who will put more burden on them. read this news as below, if India may accept to merge with Bangladesh and Pakistan, they will have to double the level of subsidies which Indian middle class dont want to. but here the question is, will the rich countries of Asia like Japan, Singapore, Korea etc will accept to pay subsidies for the poor of Bangladesh type countries, as as much as Indian middle class pay subsidies for Indian poor? (it is estimated that almost 95% people below poverty line in India is based in agriculture sector only.)



none of the Middle Class of Asia, whether of Singapore/ Korea/ Malaysia/ Turkey/ China/ India/ Vietnam/ Thailand etc who want to bear burden of subsidies for poor and similarly Indians are threatened with those Bangladeshi 30mil people who have entered in India illegally. just ask the Chinese friends around here, this much Bangladeshi and Pakistani people support China, then, will they accept to pay subsidies for the poor of these two friends of China, at least as much as Indian Middle Class pay for Indian poor? but the same isn't that hard in EU27. even if the country like Germany is facing problem due to poor of Eastern European countries and also with falling economies like Greece/Spain/Italy etc, they may somehow stand as it is. but inequality in Asia is very big and no one would like to bear expanses of heavily populated countries like Bangladesh who just dont have any resource in their country to rise in future

1.There is not a single Bangladeshi illegal in India. If there was then he would have been identified and pushed back.

2. According to IOM on an average more tahn a million illegal Indians enter other countries. Some come to us. When caught they suffer a mandatory jail sentence and are pushed back. BD is a peaceful place where we speak our language Bangla,and freely practice Islam. The minority numbering 8%, half of whom are Nomo-Shudro/ Kayestho, are happier here than in Brahmin dominated India where the low cast and minorities are persecuted. There is insurgency and internal strife all over India. Our econmy is better with better job opportunity. Why should we go to India except for shopping?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Yes, the problem between rich and poor is a challenge for Asia, but it is not the greatest.
I think the biggest problem of Asia is still the territorial disputes issue. This issue is all over Asia.
It is the issue between Pakistan and India, India and China, Japan and China, Japan and Korea, Korea and China, Vietnam and China, China and the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia, Thailand and Cambodia etc.
From the territorial dispute led to mutual distrust, the arms race, seeking power balance ...
Then there is room for external powers (arms sales, military presence, dance ...)

 

[kalu_miah]

Is the Pope Catholic?

How can you miss these gems?

Thank you for pointing it out, the statements stand by themselves to prove your point. If he is Indian, I am not sure why he is using Soviet flags. In any case we have to give some credit when its due and advise them of correct policy.

 

[Shinigami]

1.There is not a single Bangladeshi illegal in India.

there is not a single person in bangladesh

2. According to IOM on an average more tahn a million illegal Indians enter other countries. Some come to us. When caught they suffer a mandatory jail sentence and are pushed back. BD is a peaceful place where we speak our language Bangla,and freely practice Islam. The minority numbering 8%, half of whom are Nomo-Shudro/ Kayestho, are happier here than in Brahmin dominated India where the low cast and minorities are persecuted. There is insurgency and internal strife all over India. Our econmy is better with better job opportunity. Why should we go to India except for shopping?

Actually, indian immigrants tend to to a lot better than their BD counterparts

British National Party

Claims that immigration is economically beneficial for Britain have been destroyed by news that three-quarters of Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in the UK are being brought up in families that are living on poverty-level income.

The report, issued by Millennium Cohort Study, which is tracking children born between 2000 and 2002, has found that 73 per cent of the Pakistani and Bangladeshi seven-year olds were in families estimated to be living on less than 60 per cent of the average national household income.

Just over half of the black children (51 percent) in the Millennium cohort were in such low-income families, compared with one in four white (26 percent) and Indian (25percent) children, said an official press release.

“Predictably, low income was strongly linked to joblessness among parents, say researchers at the Institute of Education, University of London, who collected information from almost 14,000 families in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2008/9.”

According to the report, among fathers, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis had the highest unemployment rate (15 percent) – well above the UK average of 6 per cent. Unemployment among black fathers was also high (11 percent) but Indians were less likely to be unemployed (4 percent) than whites (5.5 percent).

Almost two-thirds (64 percent) of white and Indian mothers had jobs, compared with half (52 percent) of black mothers and only 17 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi mothers.

A much higher proportion of children in lone-parent families (63 percent) were living below the study’s poverty line than those with married (16percent) or cohabiting (30 percent) parents.

As for the minorities part, i dont need your opinion, since i am a minority living in india for 100s of years