India tells China: Kashmir is to us what Tibet, Taiwan are to you

[bandit]

Joe's argument is basically the claim that China and India are equivalent in terms of civilizational greatness so that it is natural for China and India to have equivalent spheres of influence. However, China definitely has a larger territory, sphere of influence and international standing.

Joe is saying, "Why can't India have that too? That's our entitlement. So our expansionist agenda is legitimate."

The answer to Joe's question is, "China is a much much greater civilizational entity, so there is no comparison between China and India. China is unified in time and geography -- a single state. India on the other hand is geographically separate princely kingdoms. South Asian empires are historically and culturally discontinuous. Mughal Empire does not trace its origins from Mauryan Empire for example."

I'm sorry, but India has nothing that remotely compares to China's historical (and present) greatness. Your Hindu civilization is..... charming...... but you are no match for China. Any attempt by Indians to try to picture themselves as China's equal is nothing more than self-delusion.

So as a "not-so-great" power you deserve no imperial territory. No Kashmir and no Assam (if they don't really want to be part of India). China is a great power, so we get imperial territory. It's really that simple, folks. You might say we are in different "castes."

India is name of a region. Not a country until recently. China has been a unified state since 300 BC. The Hindu civilization has no record of great influential empires. The Mauryan Empire was too long ago. Mughal Empire was Islamic. China was the leader in world technology until about 600 years ago. China had probably the first blue water fleet in world history. "India" could never be considered advanced until at least going back to the days of Sanskirt (again, a discontinuous civilization from Mughal, British India and ROI).

I'm sorry but India is not comparable to China in any way. China is simply a greater historical civilization. The sooner Indians realize this the less time they can waste trying to pretend otherwise. This is why China is entitled to have imperial lands like Xinjiang, Tibet and so on. This is why we are part of the P5. This is why 21st century is China's century not "Asia's century." China and India are at completely different levels of greatness.

This is a why all of China's neighbours are wary of its economic and military rise. As pointed out above this racial supremacy crap was what directly led y\to WW2 and the extermination of jews. This is becoming too often the case with Chinese posters here and other fora to point out their racial superiority over others. If this thinking is what goes on in an ordinary Chinese mind, how can one be sure this isnt a pointer to what will be coming in future.
And then we hear all that talk about peaceful rise and non-expansionist agenda.

 

[Wounded-Monk]

No, stupid is Joe Shearer's claims

"This flatly denies the historical fact that the closest Chinese troops before this year were in the border provinces of Qing Hai and Kham. No Government of China existed in Tibet, none whatsoever."

I'm done with this guy. He's just faking being objective and reasonable. There is no objectivity here whatsoever.It's the same "India is just as great as China, so we are entitled to expand more" delusion that other Indian members have, but they put it across less artfully.

you kidding china is nowhere as great as India.......

IndiaROX......India is the greatest civilisation in whole of the human history.........

Comparing apples with oranges ehh......

 

[HongWu]

This is a why all of China's neighbours are wary of its economic and military rise. As pointed out above this racial supremacy crap was what directly led y\to WW2 and the extermination of jews. This is becoming too often the case with Chinese posters here and other fora to point out their racial superiority over others. If this thinking is what goes on in an ordinary Chinese mind, how can one be sure this isnt a pointer to what will be coming in future.
And then we hear all that talk about peaceful rise and non-expansionist agenda.

Actually, China was a victor in WW2. India cannot lecture China about lessons from WW2.

There is nobody saying one race is better than another. It's just that for historical reasons, Chinese civilization is always far more advanced and unified compared to Hindu civilization. This is a fact. Just like saying Western Europe has a greater civilizational history than Subsaharan Africa.

It could well be that civilizations from temperate climates have certain environmental advantages that make us more advanced compared to tropical climates.

 

[Wounded-Monk]

English please.

that was sarcastic reply for his worthy post.....

 

[Wounded-Monk]

Actually, China was a victor in WW2. India cannot lecture China about lessons from WW2.

There is nobody saying one race is better than another. It's just that for historical reasons, Chinese civilization is always far more advanced and unified compared to Hindu civilization. This is a fact. Just like saying Western Europe has a greater civilizational history than Subsaharan Africa.

It could well be that civilizations from temperate climates have certain environmental advantages that make us more advanced compared to tropical climates.

If you are implying that Chinese culcure is more homogenous compared to Indian......I agree with you.......otherwise I dont see much of the point in making comparisons for the sake of determining which is the more superior one......

 

[Peshwa]

Actually, China was a victor in WW2. India cannot lecture China about lessons from WW2.

China was as much a victor in WW2 as France.

There is nobody saying one race is better than another. It's just that for historical reasons, Chinese civilization is always far more advanced and unified compared to Hindu civilization. This is a fact. Just like saying Western Europe has a greater civilizational history than Subsaharan Africa.

United States the current "alpha dog" is a conglomoration of various races, states and ideas. Never in its pre-modern history has it been a homogenous entity under the rule of one power. In fact just like India, it was colonized by the English, has had social and structural problems, yet tops the category in every spectrum.

So what exactly are you trying to prove? That a country can be great only if it is a homogenous, united entity that had a strong culttural influence on history?

I think your "theory" has been debunked already....quit while you're ahead..

 

[CardSharp]

that was sarcastic reply for his worthy post.....

Still it's would polite to the rest of us to use English.

China was as much a victor in WW2 as France.

China lost 3-4 million soldiers fighting the Japanese, show some respect.

 

[Peshwa]

China lost 3-4 million soldiers fighting the Japanese, show some respect.

No diesrespect implied to the soldiers.....Much respect infact. A lot of Indian soldiers gave their life fighting the japanese as well....

I just dont think China can be considered the victor in WW2.....and France falls in the same category..

 

[CardSharp]

No diesrespect implied to the soldiers.....Much respect infact. A lot of Indian soldiers gave their life fighting the japanese as well....

I just dont think China can be considered the victor in WW2.....and France falls in the same category..

Whatever we have our victor's seat (so does France).

 

[Peshwa]

Whatever we have our victor's seat (so does France).

Yep....what matters is that you have it....How you spin the acquisition to boost your ego is your business....

Self fulilling prophecy is a common trait for the Subcontinent and China!

 

[CardSharp]

How you spin to boost your ego is your business....

Right back at ya.

 

[gubbi]

India is name of a region. Not a country until recently. China has been a unified state since 300 BC. The Hindu civilization has no record of great influential empires. The Mauryan Empire was too long ago. Mughal Empire was Islamic. China was the leader in world technology until about 600 years ago. China had probably the first blue water fleet in world history. "India" could never be considered advanced until at least going back to the days of Sanskirt (again, a discontinuous civilization from Mughal, British India and ROI).

I'm sorry but India is not comparable to China in any way. China is simply a greater historical civilization. The sooner Indians realize this the less time they can waste trying to pretend otherwise. This is why China is entitled to have imperial lands like Xinjiang, Tibet and so on. This is why we are part of the P5. This is why 21st century is China's century not "Asia's century." China and India are at completely different levels of greatness.

This rant, again, is classic "racial superiority" complex. For all that jumble of words you managed to furiously type away, you have yet to construct one meaningful sentence as to why YOU consider China a 'much much greater civilizational entity" than India.

History is not your forte, I see.

 

[CardSharp]

This rant, again, is classic "racial superiority" complex. For all that jumble of words you managed to furiously type away, you have yet to construct one meaningful sentence as to why YOU consider China a 'much much greater civilizational entity" than India.

History is not your forte, I see.

Let me save you the time. There is no special quality that makes a civilization nation inherently great. A country is what its people make of it. It's something that requires constant vigilance and dedication. As for Hongwu's ideas? If a sense of fraternity or shared culture is what keeps a nation together and going, then fine and good but great nations have been built on other organizing principals as well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe Shearer,

Excellent posts, as always . Really appreciate your time and energy and effort!

Can you please share your views on the current status of the India-China border talks? Has there been any positive progress? If so, where? and If not, why?

Big question in few words! Hope you won't mind.

Regards

Thank you so much for the kind words; they are sincerely appreciated.

To answer your question, yes, I do have views on the current status of the India-China border talks. However, before I go public with them, you should know that my true views are somewhat different from what I stated to Chinese-Dragon. Those views were the 'opening statements', so to speak, and not what we would agree to, or settle for. Or rather, what we should agree to, or settle for.

With that in view, are you sure you will want to know my views, and not be disappointed?

Regards,

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, although I certainly appreciate your attitude, but some your point, I obviously do not agree. If have time I will to refute it.

Dear 'huzihaidao12',

I will greatly enjoy reading your response, and hope you will make some time for it. Even points will do; our arguments need to be logical, not polished and honed. You should know also that I was in some respects being wary of Chinese-Dragon's very hurt and very angry state, and exaggerating the Indian position in some respects to keep him at bay and win some space for later.

Our positions may be closer than you think!

Having said that, I do wish to hear from you.

With warm regards,