India snubs China, to attend Nobel ceremony

[Abhishek_]

Ahhh I think you underestimate the problem. There is no LAC unlike that which exists between Pak-Ind. From what I've read on the topic and listened to in conference recordings, the differences between what India claims and what China claims is tremendous.

also (a point I've made before) the Indian government doesn't have the political capital/is unwilling right now to enter negotiations (note difference between talks and negotiations). I have some pretty interesting material about the problems delaying the negotiations.

i remember our discussion on that topic CS.
WRT claims, like I mentioned before both nations will do well to accept the line of control (not claims).
Anyway, I'm content as long as the borders remain peaceful like they have been (unlike Indo-Pak borders)

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

1. a government/administration in all but name

Didn't follow this part.

Here is where I disagree. (see above) but what would you think the first move from China should be?

I meant from the current mistrust we have and the opposition stance in India.The Indian problems are absent in China,only thing is ow it affects Pakistan.

China can't make this gesture if there are no Kashmiri separatists seeking refuge in China, can it?

It was just an example situation.

The result being :: convincing Indian Govt you respect certain Indian concerns on Kashmir.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I don't find you rushing off to China because the rest of us are idiots.

There are plenty of Indians and Westerners coming over to China nowadays.

What is wrong with that?

 

[CardSharp]

i remember our discussion on that topic CS.
WRT claims, like I mentioned before both nations will do well to accept the line of control (not claims).
Anyway, I'm content as long as the borders remain peaceful like they have been (unlike Indo-Pak borders)

The Pak-Ind LAC is bloody but it is well defined. The Sino-Ind border is peaceful but ill defined.

It is peaceful because the two sides give each other a wide berth. The land in between is significant. The first step would be again to enter negotiations.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Who are we to decide? I am not particularly concerned whether or not China becomes a democracy, my limited point was that there is no meaningful way to know whether a expression of satisfaction with the system existing is real or not when there is a price that might have to be paid for opining differently.

Can you tell me what will happen to me if I am polled by an international organization and I give a different answer?

 

[Abhishek_]

I don't find you rushing off to China because the rest of us are idiots.

Who are we to decide? I am not particularly concerned whether or not China becomes a democracy, my limited point was that there is no meaningful way to know whether a expression of satisfaction with the system existing is real or not when there is a price that might have to be paid for opining differently.

lmao democracy works for me in US, I'm not complaining
btw the Idiot remark was directed towards dissidents, of which we have plenty in India (maoists, geelani) as well. They are the 1% (or less) who think they are special.

Writing down your opinion in a survey will not land you in jail. Inciting public against the state (similar to mirwaiz/geelani/arundhati) will.

 

[LaBong]

Don't be daft. Read the bolded quote. I'm sure even you can understand that Russia's excuse is an attempt to be polite while still making the political point.



BBC

BBC News - Nobel peace prize: Who is boycotting the ceremony?

From the source you quoted.

In early November, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Oslo said the ambassador would not be in Norway at the time of the award ceremony. "It is not politically motivated and we do not feel we are pressured by China," he told the AP.

Who's acting all daft now?

 

[Markus]

The Pak-Ind LAC is bloody but it is well defined. The Sino-Ind border is peaceful but ill defined.

It is peaceful because the two sides give each other a wide berth. The land in between is significant. The first step would be again to enter negotiations.

NOt really, The Indo-Pak border is not properly defined along its length in many areas.

 

[CardSharp]

Didn't follow this part.


I meant from the current mistrust we have and the opposition stance in India.The Indian problems are absent in China,only thing is ow it affects Pakistan.



It was just an example situation.

The result being :: convincing Indian Govt you respect certain Indian concerns on Kashmir.

1. The Tibetan G in E can go on adminstratoring the refuge, and it can be named something else, that brings no greater political implications.


point 2 I don't quite follow.

point 3, I understand it is an example but my point was there are no such opportunities that I can see.

(what is your opinion on the rest of that post?)

 

[Bang Galore]

Again with the "I don't believe you because you're brainwashed commies bullsht"

Your words not mine. The article quoted was from the Washington Times & don't think there are many of the kind mentioned by you stalking their offices.

My point of an opinion being credible when voiced through a free & fair method still holds.Would you believe one where 98% of NK said the same? Not disputing the statistics, just saying that you can't run from democracy yet use it as a basis for supporting the present system.

 

[LaBong]

The sentiments of the population in general always count in the minds of the decision makers.

Is it true that China issues are not included in the manifesto of any Indian political party?

What Chinese issues? Communists want more cooperation with China. Tibet or the supposed Tibetan govt in exile has no relevance in India's political clout.

 

[CardSharp]

From the source you quoted.



Who's acting all daft now?

Just when I thought we were getting somewhere by talking this through...

You guys will have to put a leash on him if we want to finish talking about this.

 

[huzihaidao12]

You mean ban TGE.

For me TGE from the political perspective is like numerous political parties in Kashmir ,seeking/voicing independence from India.

Except unlike the Kashmiri parties going rallies and demonstrations for freedom,the free-Tibet demonstrations are not allowed as these people are refugees.

Banning TGE comes with its own set of consequences
1.whose is going to administer the Tibetan refugees?
2.Reaction of domestic political parties to it,as it is interpreted by opposition as submitting to Chinese interest.
3.Will it change China stance on India?

For the last point,from a pragmatic view,China mostly won't budge on stance on SA geopolitics as Pakistan is more valuable to China than India.

The most India can do is "limit TGE's political activity".

For that to be done China has to make the first move.

Say,comes a situation where an exiled Kashmiri militant leader takes refugee in China and is not allowed to preach his views from the context Chinese Govt adheres to Indian stance on Kashmiri militants.

Then as a sign of reciprocity India might tighten rules for TGE.

1, China will be able to receive those refugees, if that there are Tibetans willing to stay in India, we do not disagree. If India has a "human rights" concerns, to establish an international observer mission to Tibet, including India's representative.

2, it is India's internal affairs, just to judge India's strategic needs, China can not do anything about this.

3, certainly has changed, at least there is a large change in confidence between the parties. But with a realistic attitude, China and India still have a border problem, which is also tricky, so all the gains bottom line is that an increased mutual trust, both the Government and people. A better attitude to solve the border issue, what is better? At least when we want to solve the border issue, no more enemies in the psychological attitude, but only in some border territory issues, which is at least beneficial.

Other things, can only say that step by step, at least China not to provoke fight of Pakistan and India, I think China has a good attitude, the future will not change. Chinese attitude certainly help that Pakistan and India to resolve the problem.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Your words not mine. The article quoted was from the Washington Times & don't think there are many of the kind mentioned by you stalking their offices.

My point of an opinion being credible when voiced through a free & fair method still holds.Would you believe one where 98% of NK said the same? Not disputing the statistics, just saying that you can't run from democracy yet use it as a basis for supporting the present system.

Yeah I had to quote from the Washington times because I doubt you would have believed a Chinese source and even now you don't believe it.

Also since this "International poll" was anonymous (as most are), how was it not free and fair?

If you don't like the methodology then talk to the Pew Research Center, they were the ones who carried it out.

 

[CardSharp]

Your words not mine. The article quoted was from the Washington Times & don't think there are many of the kind mentioned by you stalking their offices.

My point of an opinion being credible when voiced through a free & fair method still holds.Would you believe one where 98% of NK said the same? Not disputing the statistics, just saying that you can't run from democracy yet use it as a basis for supporting the present system.

Here is a simple question

Can you tell me what will happen to me if I am polled by an international organization and I give a different answer?