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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

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Instead of mmrca deal India should buy more Sukhoi-MKI : defence experts​

DAILY EXCELSIOR


You left out the important parts:
Many defence experts have opined that instead of such deals India should buy more Sukhoi-MKI, and wait for sometime for the fifth generation stealth fighters for which it has entered into agreement with Russia. The stealth fighters are likely to be operational by 2017-18, at the same time the entire fleet of multi-role combat fighters will be delivered to IAF.

So they want MKIs only as a bridge until FGFA might be ready, because they will be available most likely by the end of the decade.
However, that suggestion ignors the fact that MMRCA is about more than just a fighter replacement and that we wouldn't get any useful ToT, or co-developments to improve our defence industry, not to mention that it would make IAF way more dependent on Russia and would increase the operational costs with so many heavy class fiighters.


More interesting in regard to the topic are these parts of the article:

What are India's foreseeable security threats and how must the IAF respond? While Pakistan remains a lingering hangover, especially in its embrace of cross-border terrorism, it is diminishing as a full-blown military threat to India. The IAF's most likely missions against Pakistan centre on air-to-ground strikes: punitive raids against terrorist camps or ISI locations, perhaps in retaliation for yet another terrorist outrage; or pre-emptive strikes against Pakistani ballistic missiles when a nuclear launch against India seems imminent.
A devastating ground strike capability is also primary for contingencies on the China border. With Beijing relentlessly developing roads and railways to the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has already built, and is increasing the ability to amass an invading force faster than the Indian Army can rush in troops to defend the threatened area.
With an attack imminent, or some Indian territory already captured, New Delhi's immediate response will inevitably centre on air strikes against PLA forward troops and the routes on which their logistics - ammunition, fuel, food, water and medical care - depend. In the 1962 debacle, one of New Delhi's most unforgivable, and inexplicable, blunders was to abjure the use of air power. This time around, as evident from the rapid creation of IAF infrastructure along the China border, India's first response will be with air strikes.
Given these requirements, it is evident that the IAF needs powerful ground strike capabilities.


One can argue about some of the targets they point out, because I think long range missile sites will be high priority targets as well, but in general that is a main point for sure, which obviously puts Rafale in advantage!
 
Is Typhoon the end of history for UK aerospace?



No question about it — the Brits have given the world some classic combat aircraft: The Spitfire. The Harrier. The Fairey Gannet. The Buccaneer. Their joint ventures with European partners have also been successful, including the Jaguar, the Tornado and most recently, the Eurofighter Typhoon. But the outgoing boss of UK aerospace supplier GKN warns that with the realities of the defense world today, the Typhoon could be Britain’s last fighter — and it’s only a portion British to begin with.


GKN CEO Kevin Smith tells Defence Management that for all the Typhoon’s success and its futre prospects as an export fighter in India and elsewhere, the UK and Europe have nothing in the hopper. The Typhoon is the payoff of decisions made years ago, Smith argues, and unless Euro-leaders get something going now, it could be the end of the British defense aerospace industry, at least, if not all of Europe’s.

Here’s how Smith put it to Defence Management’s Anthony Hall:


When asked how easy it would be in his opinion to raise technology in the UK back up to the highest level, Smith is less than optimistic: “I think we have lost a lot. When I worked in the Military Aircraft Division at British Aerospace in the 1990s, we were producing the two variants of the Tornado – the IDS and the ADB – in collaboration. We had Sea Harrier incorporated in production and we had the AV8 in collaboration with the US Marine Corps, which then went back into the Royal Air Force for the GR7 and the Harrier TMK10. We had the 60, 100 and 200 series Hawk and the T45 Hawk collaboration for the US Navy, and we were doing the early phases of development of Eurofighter. Then in the latter part of the 1990s, we moved into the Nimrod programme. A lot of the capability to do that has gone, and continues to disappear. We don’t make a whole aircraft anymore and have probably lost that capability as a nation.”

While stressing that collaboration is important, and that sustaining the capability to develop advanced systems and weapons systems across Europe is key, he concedes that nationally, once the UK loses its own capability, it cannot be rebuilt: “It goes, and I think that is demonstrated by how the aerospace industry, although it still has a strong position globally, is substantially based on decisions that were made a long time ago.”

Once again, the Eurofighter/Typhoon provides a pertinent example. Launched in the late 80s and early 90s, it is viewed today by most of those outside the UK aerospace industry as its defining aircraft. However, this owes little to current practices, Smith explains: “The industry we have today is not a product of what’s happened over the last two or five years. It’s a product of what happened 10 years ago. The decisions we take or don’t take now affect the ability to sustain the industry in the next 10–15 years. The Typhoon could be the last hurrah.”

This is why a new European aircraft programme is so important, he says. “In the US, you have the JSF Programme, which is just starting to come into production, and behind that, they have programmes that they’re demonstrating technology on today, which are going to be the production programmes in 10 or 15 years’ time.” The concern, he says, is that the UK isn’t developing a demonstration phase.

Britain isn’t even sure it’ll be able to afford all the F-35C Lightning IIs it wants for its new aircraft carriers, to say nothing of building its own new next-generation fighter. What’s more, although you can say what you want about the problems with the F-35 program, it will provide Britain with its first stealthy, most advanced fighter — such a leap past the Typhoon that it would be a major challenge for the UK or a Euro-consortium to trump it anytime soon.

What Britain and Europe must count on is their ability to continue exporting Typhoons as long as possible, and hope their economies improve enough to start thinking about the next big thing.





Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/08/22/is-typhoon-the-end-of-history-for-uk-aerospace/#ixzz1Vog5CtIl
DoDBuzz.com
 
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Is Typhoon the end of history for UK aerospace?



No question about it — the Brits have given the world some classic combat aircraft: The Spitfire. The Harrier. The Fairey Gannet. The Buccaneer. Their joint ventures with European partners have also been successful, including the Jaguar, the Tornado and most recently, the Eurofighter Typhoon. But the outgoing boss of UK aerospace supplier GKN warns that with the realities of the defense world today, the Typhoon could be Britain’s last fighter — and it’s only a portion British to begin with.


GKN CEO Kevin Smith tells Defence Management that for all the Typhoon’s success and its futre prospects as an export fighter in India and elsewhere, the UK and Europe have nothing in the hopper. The Typhoon is the payoff of decisions made years ago, Smith argues, and unless Euro-leaders get something going now, it could be the end of the British defense aerospace industry, at least, if not all of Europe’s.

Here’s how Smith put it to Defence Management’s Anthony Hall:


When asked how easy it would be in his opinion to raise technology in the UK back up to the highest level, Smith is less than optimistic: “I think we have lost a lot. When I worked in the Military Aircraft Division at British Aerospace in the 1990s, we were producing the two variants of the Tornado – the IDS and the ADB – in collaboration. We had Sea Harrier incorporated in production and we had the AV8 in collaboration with the US Marine Corps, which then went back into the Royal Air Force for the GR7 and the Harrier TMK10. We had the 60, 100 and 200 series Hawk and the T45 Hawk collaboration for the US Navy, and we were doing the early phases of development of Eurofighter. Then in the latter part of the 1990s, we moved into the Nimrod programme. A lot of the capability to do that has gone, and continues to disappear. We don’t make a whole aircraft anymore and have probably lost that capability as a nation.”

While stressing that collaboration is important, and that sustaining the capability to develop advanced systems and weapons systems across Europe is key, he concedes that nationally, once the UK loses its own capability, it cannot be rebuilt: “It goes, and I think that is demonstrated by how the aerospace industry, although it still has a strong position globally, is substantially based on decisions that were made a long time ago.”

Once again, the Eurofighter/Typhoon provides a pertinent example. Launched in the late 80s and early 90s, it is viewed today by most of those outside the UK aerospace industry as its defining aircraft. However, this owes little to current practices, Smith explains: “The industry we have today is not a product of what’s happened over the last two or five years. It’s a product of what happened 10 years ago. The decisions we take or don’t take now affect the ability to sustain the industry in the next 10–15 years. The Typhoon could be the last hurrah.”

This is why a new European aircraft programme is so important, he says. “In the US, you have the JSF Programme, which is just starting to come into production, and behind that, they have programmes that they’re demonstrating technology on today, which are going to be the production programmes in 10 or 15 years’ time.” The concern, he says, is that the UK isn’t developing a demonstration phase.

Britain isn’t even sure it’ll be able to afford all the F-35C Lightning IIs it wants for its new aircraft carriers, to say nothing of building its own new next-generation fighter. What’s more, although you can say what you want about the problems with the F-35 program, it will provide Britain with its first stealthy, most advanced fighter — such a leap past the Typhoon that it would be a major challenge for the UK or a Euro-consortium to trump it anytime soon.

What Britain and Europe must count on is their ability to continue exporting Typhoons as long as possible, and hope their economies improve enough to start thinking about the next big thing.





Read more: http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/08/22/is-typhoon-the-end-of-history-for-uk-aerospace/#ixzz1Vog5CtIl
DoDBuzz.com

Well since the article talks about decline of defence industry in the Europe it should be applicable to France as well ?
 
Well since the article talks about decline of defence industry in the Europe it should be applicable to France as well ?

It's actually talking about British own developments, but today own development are simply too costly and that's why we see joint developments like F35, NH90, A400, MRTA, FGFA, or even the KFX stealth fight of S. Korea, where Indonesia and Turkey might join.
The European countries are in big financial trouble at the moment, once because the economic crisis and some of the also because of the EURO crisis. Both however will lead to even more co-developments, that's why BAE and Dassault for example now joint for a new UAV, why we might see RAF pilots flying Rafales soon, or British SSNs and SSBNs in French carrier groups.
India should also get rid of the idea that we have to develop anything on our own, but start forming joint developments, especially with some of the BRICS nations, like Brazil, S. Africa, or Asian countries like S. Korea, Japan, Singapore or Indonesia.
 
Well since the article talks about decline of defence industry in the Europe it should be applicable to France as well ?

Well not really the a french have tried to distance themselves in this industry from the European consortium hence the Rafele. And unlike UK France is still a major player in the defence Market and the Rafele is prrof of their strength- not many countries can make their own fighters from the ground up.
 
We heard that we will decide the winner in August 2011. Today is 1st Sept. 2011, where the hell we stand now?
 
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---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

Dassault close to UAE deal on Rafale jets | idrw.org

Dassault Aviation is expected to put an offer to sell about 60 Rafale fighterjets to the United Arab Emirates this month, in a sign that negotiations are progressing, Les Echos newspaper reported on Thursday.

Last month another French newspaper said an agreement could be reached between September and the end of the year.

No one at Dassault was immediately available to comment

The UAE has been in talks with Dassault since 2008 over the purchase of 60 Rafale jets, estimated at 10 billion dollars, to replace the fleet of Mirage 2000s they bought in 1983.

French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said in July the United Arab Emirates was France’s best bet in the short term for clinching an export deal for the Rafale.
 
6098300600_b221013c12_o.jpg


---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

Dassault close to UAE deal on Rafale jets | idrw.org

Dassault Aviation is expected to put an offer to sell about 60 Rafale fighterjets to the United Arab Emirates this month, in a sign that negotiations are progressing, Les Echos newspaper reported on Thursday.

Last month another French newspaper said an agreement could be reached between September and the end of the year.

No one at Dassault was immediately available to comment

The UAE has been in talks with Dassault since 2008 over the purchase of 60 Rafale jets, estimated at 10 billion dollars, to replace the fleet of Mirage 2000s they bought in 1983.

French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said in July the United Arab Emirates was France’s best bet in the short term for clinching an export deal for the Rafale.

So rafale gets its first international sale then ?
 
the only difference is india has to buy everything wonder if they will buy european soldiers 2... thank God Pakistan can build its own MMRCA
 
the only difference is india has to buy everything wonder if they will buy european soldiers 2... thank God Pakistan can build its own MMRCA

This is what they teach u in madarsas?

better you should have took admission in a school, I must say!
 
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