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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

Who is now the Favorite?


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scrapping the deal won't work coz they have no chince but to buy one of the six contenders coz they are the only six available presently...
as far as benchmarking is concern , there is no doubt now that both the present shortlisted will fail...

then i think IAF will again look back into the evaluation results and try to figure out which two next in line fill their requirments at the closest...

to my understanding MIG-35 is still alive !!

or just buy more MKIs...simple as it !!

[note : could it be right to connect this to the resent comments made by the RAF cheif regarding EF outclass mki in resent air excercise , it could be that IAF officials has indicated that if mmrca contenders fail to meet benchmark price IAF will buy mkis .......]

Well , that could actually be the case , However , there is no chance for Mig35 and F16 , BUT SUPERHORNET AND GRIPEN COULD GET A LOOK OVER

However it would make us look ridiculous if we cancel the mmrca project
Also GOI has stated that it is willing to add additional 2 Billion USD to the 10.4 Billion USD Contract , eventually everything actually depends on the benchmarking report
However there is still a chance that mmrca could still be cancelled if both the RAFALE and Typhoon exceed the 14 Billion USD pricetag for 126 aircrafts which is likely to be the benchmark price likely to be announced in september
Frankly , it is guaranteed that E/F will exceed the price tag simply becoz even today most sources place the E/F at 110-120 Million USD
While Rafale is priced at anywhere between 90-105 Billion USD , French also are more desperate for Indian Order than EADS thats coz Rafale only has an order book of 180 aircrafts ordered by french Airforce , compared to that EADS eventually sell more than 500 Typhoons
 
Incase both E/F and Rafale are unable to meet Benchmark and GOI decides not to request next in line bidder for a quotation , then mmrca could well be cancelled
Such a senario is quite scary coz that would leave a big hole in Indian Fighter numbers which would need to be filled
As it is 126 MMRCA are required to replace around 135 Mig27 and Jaguar ie 7 sqds
While LCA MK1 and Su30MKI will replace 170 odd Mig21 currently in service
 
India given choice to pioneer naval Typhoon jet

LONDON/NEW DELHI: In anticipation of winning the Indian Air Force's $10.4 billion tender for 126combat jets, European consortium EADS has offered India a choice to pioneer a project for a naval version of theEurofighter Typhoon that is in the fray in what is being described as the "mother of all defence deals".

Typhoon's competitor in themedium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender, the French firm Dassault's Rafale, already has a naval version that is operational on France's lonenuclear-powered aircraft carrierCharles de Gaulle.

Officials of BAE Systems, one of the four partner companies in EADS for theTyphoon programme, told IANS during a visit to their RAF Warton production facility in Britain recently that India can exercise the choice of being a partner nation and leading the programme for the carrier-borne version of the aircraft if it wins theMMRCA tender. At present, Britain, Italy, Spain and Germany are partners in the Typhoon programme.

According to theBAE Systems officials, the Typhoon, which is a shore-based combat jet, has the potential to be a carrier-borne aircraft, provided a few modifications are made to the aircraft itself, essentially in a ski-jump take-off configuration due to the thrust-vectoring 90 kN (kilo Newton) engine that powers it.

Among the changes, it identifies strengthening of the undercarriage of the aircraft to assist in hard landings on a carrier's deck, fitting a carrier hook for arrested landings, and a good paint coating to help it withstand the vagaries of nature at sea.

The choice of the Typhoon for the Indian Navy the officials said, will complement the experience of operating the British Sea Harrier vertical-landing carrier-borne aircraft on board its lone aircraft carrier,INS Viraat, for over two decades now. Of the nearly 30 Harriers India had got for INS Viraat, only about 10 are left in service, with the rest lost in air crashes.

The offer has been made keeping in mind the Indian Navy's request for information issued in 2009. But the Indian Navy itself is not very amused with the offer.

First, according to officials, the Indian Navy plans to induct the Russian-built Admiral Gorshkov or INS Vikramaditya in the next couple of years. This warship will deploy Russian MiG-29K naval fighter jets and for this, the vessel is being reconfigured into a ski-jump take-off but arrested landing (STOBAR) mode at theSevmash shipyard in Russia.

The same aircraft will be operated from the flight deck of India's indigenous aircraft carrier, under construction at the Cochin Shipyard, when it is inducted in the middle of this decade. Hence the Indian Navy has placed a total order for 45 MiG-29Ks for the two carriers from Russia.

For the future, the navy wants the Defence Research and Development Organisation's Tejas light combat aircraft's naval variant to fructify. If it does, then it may be the future carrier-borne aircraft of the navy for its two more indigenous aircraft carriers planned for construction at the Cochin Shipyard. But that decision is a long shot as it stands today, according to senior naval aviation officers.

But here is where the EADS, and BAE Systems in particular, is hopeful and is pitching the Typhoons as a powerful STOBAR platform for the future indigenous aircraft carriers of India.


India given choice to pioneer naval Typhoon jet - The Economic Times
 
In the period immediately after the April down select I thought Dassualt had it in the bag but as time has worn on and given recent developments it certainly seems as though the tide is swinging in favour of EFT.

Did I missed something? :eek: As far as I see it, the recent decision for the Mirage upgrades even increased the chances of Rafale to win, because because of more commonality and lower costs. So can you explain what recent developments would have favoured the EF other than EF fake PR about beeing better in A2G, or that they smashed the MKI?
 
Incase both E/F and Rafale are unable to meet Benchmark and GOI decides not to request next in line bidder for a quotation , then mmrca could well be cancelled
Such a senario is quite scary coz that would leave a big hole in Indian Fighter numbers which would need to be filled
As it is 126 MMRCA are required to replace around 135 Mig27 and Jaguar ie 7 sqds
While LCA MK1 and Su30MKI will replace 170 odd Mig21 currently in service

Well , that could actually be the case , However , there is no chance for Mig35 and F16 , BUT SUPERHORNET AND GRIPEN COULD GET A LOOK OVER

However it would make us look ridiculous if we cancel the mmrca project
Also GOI has stated that it is willing to add additional 2 Billion USD to the 10.4 Billion USD Contract , eventually everything actually depends on the benchmarking report
However there is still a chance that mmrca could still be cancelled if both the RAFALE and Typhoon exceed the 14 Billion USD pricetag for 126 aircrafts which is likely to be the benchmark price likely to be announced in september
Frankly , it is guaranteed that E/F will exceed the price tag simply becoz even today most sources place the E/F at 110-120 Million USD
While Rafale is priced at anywhere between 90-105 Billion USD , French also are more desperate for Indian Order than EADS thats coz Rafale only has an order book of 180 aircrafts ordered by french Airforce , compared to that EADS eventually sell more than 500 Typhoons

I am almost certain MoD/GoI won't do such a thing and will pat whatever (within reason) to procure the 126 MMRCA. This is for a number of reasons:
1) IAF/MoD/GoI would be made to look extremely foolish and incredible for future defence deals.
2) would jeopardise future deals where contenders may pullout at early stages or offer sub/standard equipment just to "fit the bill"
4) would put GoI/MoD at a disadvantage in future negations and may have adverse effects on prices
3) the scrapping/reassessing eliminated AC would put IAF capabilities at risk as they need these planes urgently to fill a need and the eliminated AC have been thrown out for a reason (whatever that may be) and IAF have picked what fighters they want.
4) all the money that has been spent by IAF in evaluating the planes (a very expensive task) and money spent by candidates would look to be wasted and would leave many disgruntled parities.

For these reasons and others I just can't see the MMRCA being scrapped amd GoI/MoD may have to bite the bullet on the cost side in the short run, to focus on the bigger picture in the long run.
 
I am almost certain MoD/GoI won't do such a thing and will pat whatever (within reason) to procure the 126 MMRCA. This is for a number of reasons:
1) IAF/MoD/GoI would be made to look extremely foolish and incredible for future defence deals.
2) would jeopardise future deals where contenders may pullout at early stages or offer sub/standard equipment just to "fit the bill"
4) would put GoI/MoD at a disadvantage in future negations and may have adverse effects on prices
3) the scrapping/reassessing eliminated AC would put IAF capabilities at risk as they need these planes urgently to fill a need and the eliminated AC have been thrown out for a reason (whatever that may be) and IAF have picked what fighters they want.
4) all the money that has been spent by IAF in evaluating the planes (a very expensive task) and money spent by candidates would look to be wasted and would leave many disgruntled parities.

For these reasons and others I just can't see the MMRCA being scrapped amd GoI/MoD may have to bite the bullet on the cost side in the short run, to focus on the bigger picture in the long run.

UAE not buying these expensive stuff almost over 4-5 years of negotiations, do they looking foolish and incredible for future defence deals ?

do brazil looking foolish and incredible for future defence deals....
 
UAE not buying these expensive stuff almost over 4-5 years of negotiations, do they looking foolish and incredible for future defence deals ?

do brazil looking foolish and incredible for future defence deals....

UAE is negotiating about the costs, that's all! There is hardly any doubt that they wouldn't buy Rafale soon, because the French agreed to most of their conditions and there is no other alternative that could buy back the Mirage 2000-9s and integrate the Black Shaheen missiles. That's why those media speculations about F18SH, or more F16s are just nicely placed PR to put pressure on the French, for more cost reduction.
And in Brazil the Rafale is still the frontrunner, it just has a new competitior, because the former president prefered Rafale, or Gripen, while the new one will take a decision between Rafale and F18SH. If Brazil can afford the Rafale after their budget cuts, it's clearly the best choice for them, because just like in MMRCA, ToT, offsets and improving the indigenous defence industry are important points, where the French have clear advantages over the US, or Sweden.
 
..:: India Strategic ::. Rafale will come with fill ToT

Executive Vice President International Eric Trappier told India Strategic that Dassault was hopeful of winning the Indian Air Force (IAF) competition for 126-plus Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) and that the company would have no hesitation in transferring the “best onboard technologies, both for IAF and Indian Navy if the latter opted for it also for its future aircraft carriers.”

He and his team were in regular touch with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD), and like the other rival in the MMRCA competition, he was waiting for the commercial bids to open. He was sure, he said, that Rafale would be economical and cheaper than the competition in the short and long run. “We have had a long relationship with India spanning 50 years and we want this to be longer.”

Trappier was also hopeful of the Mirage 2000 upgrade contract to be signed soon. Although most of the upgradation would be done by the technology company Thales, the aircraft were originally sold by Dassault, which now has a substantial stake in Thales.

After the upgradation, the Mirage 2000 would be as good as new Mirage 2005 aircraft, possibly with some better technologies than before.

Thales is providing Electronic Warfare (EW) suites, combat radars, displays, helmet mounted cueing systems and some of the weapons for both the Mirage and Rafale. The latter though would have the advantage of modern AESA radars and possibly Ultra Violet or Infra Red Search and Track (UV or IR ST) systems for well Beyond the Visual Range (BVR) engagement and neutralization of hostile targets.

These systems would be compatible with most of the precision weapons.

On offer is also the latest Air to Air Meteor missile developed by MBDA.

Rafale was also stated to have lower radar signature due to the integration of its engine intakes with the body. “If you look at it from the front, it is like a bird with natural contours, not extruding inlets.” And the aircraft would have less fuel consumption than others, which would both be economical and strategic in war time, when fuel supplies are invariably in short supplies.

Trappier described the Rafale as an omni role fighter, and said that it was the only aircraft already operating both from land and sea and that its capabilities had been demonstrated both to the IAF and Indian Navy. France’s only aircraft carrier, Charles de Gaulle, had done exercises with the Indian Navy and also visited Mumbai recently.

Asked about the combat radars and weapons, he pointed out that Dassault’s associate company Thales had already developed and validated the RBE2 AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar and “it would be on board the aircraft ordered by India well in time.”

In fact, there would be other systems and weapons which would also be delivered to the IAF to its satisfaction.

Asked about reports that some of the weapons were available only with the US companies, like the Raytheon High Speed Anti Radiation Missile (HARM), and that even if a company was willing to sell them, the approval would have to still from the US Government, Trappier said that he was hopeful that there would be no problem.

Notably, all the six contestants in the MMRCA fray had promised to meet all the IAF requirements.

There would have to be some diplomatic intervention perhaps at a later stage between the winner and its country/ countries of manufacture as well as the US to secure this arrangement. Maybe India’s goodwill will play a role irrespective of which of the two finalists bags the world’s biggest aircraft order yet.

Indications are that New Delhi would order nearly 200 aircraft, 126 as per the tender, and 63 mentioned in the option clause.
 
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Exercise “Winter Hide”: Italian 4° Stormo Eurofighter jets hosted the Royal Danish Air Force in February 2011
 
Engines and radar to blame for MiG-35 failure in MMRCA contest

Radar and engine performance shortcomings were to blame for the MiG-35 failing to make the shortlist in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest.

The revelations are contained in feedback from India to Russia's arms export agency, Rosboronexport.

The MiG-35's radar, the Zhuk-MAE active electronically scanned array (AESA), from Russia's Phazotron, failed to achieve the required acquisition and tracking ranges. And its Klimov RD-33MK engines also fell short of the Indian performance criteria.

Speaking to the media on 3 August, Vladimir Barkovsky, chief of MiG's engineering centre, said: "The Klimov and Chernyshev [engine companies] briefed [India] at length about their capabilities and intentions to improve their offering, but unfortunately their arguments were not taken into account."

Despite this, the same RD-33MK met Indian navy requirements and powers the newly-built MiG-29K/KUB fighters being delivered to the service.

Barkovsky also defended the Zhuk-MAE AESA radar, pointing out that the prototype nature of the model fitted to the MiG-35 meant that it did not meet the tender specifications, particularly regarding range.

He said: "We told the tender committee that this particular unit is experimental, and that in future we will make a larger radar antenna [capable of being used at a longer range]."

Barkovsky pointed out that the Eurofighter Typhoon is yet to be fitted with a working AESA radar.

"While the Russians demonstrated their radar fitted to the real fighter and working, [Eurofighter] demonstrated their radar on a helicopter," he said.


"The positive outcome of the Indian tender is that we made a huge effort on the radar development and demonstrated what nobody expected of us, and thus surprised many, including some in our home country." Barkovsky added.

The company will continue the MiG-35 project, he said, and look for other export customers.
 
Dassault May Sell 63 Rafales to UAE This Year, Tribune Says - Bloomberg

Negotiations between the United Arab Emirates and the French government and Dassault Aviation SA (AM) over the sale of about 63 Rafale fighter planes have picked up again, with a deal expected between September and year-end, La Tribune reported, without saying where it got the information.

Such an order would be worth between 6 billion euros ($8.5 billion) and 8 billion euros, the French newspaper said. The negotiations include plans for the purchase of Meteor missiles built by MBDA, a missile maker comprised of European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co., BAE Systems Plc (BA/) and Italy’s Finmecanicca SpA.
 
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