India’s 2nd Carrier Ins Vishal to be Flat-Top Configuration , Navy to Freez

[sancho]

About the aircraft on the Carrier, the MiG-29s can be modified for Carrier CAT operations, it is technically possible. But logically Rafale-M may be a more appropriate choice. Then there is the LCA-M if it gets suitably executed. The F/A-18 is an outside choice, unless it gets tied into some package with E-MALS!

It might be technically possible, but is way to complicated and costly, because many structural changes would be necessary. N-LCA is no choice at all, because it's way too limited in operational terms, especially when the aim is sending the carrier against PLAN. F18SH is by far not a n outside choice, but a front runner imo!
By the time we need the fighter, Boeing will have most of the Silent Hornet upgrades at least developed as demonstrators and tested. Combined with the advantages of folding wings, twin seat versions and possibly even as a Growler lite version, it offers a very good carrier platform, with a good weapon package, that possibly even comes at reasonable costs.

The other matter is that the talks with USA for the E-2D Hawkeye now dove-tails nicely with the idea of a CATOBAR Carrier of this size. So that is a distinct possibility. Somehow the IN's interest in the V-22 Osprey never progressed beyond the preliminary, and if a CATOBAR configuration is decided on then the Osprey will go out of mind.

The V22 was offered to Indian forces, among others as a AEW version as well and that could be used from an CATOBAR carrier as well, since it don't have to take off via catapults, but via short take off and lands vertically.
The downsides are, that this version is not developed, might have some technical issues and offers a less performance than the E-2D, but way more than the Ka31 we currently have. So the question might be, funding and procureing such a version for all our carriers with a midlevel performance, or procureing and operating different AEW aircrafts for our carriers with low and high performance.

Also the V22 is the only aircraft that could be used on our carriers as a tanker, long range MPA or long range utility aircraft.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It might be technically possible, but is way to complicated and costly, because many structural changes would be necessary.

The modification of the MiG-29 from STOBAR to CATOBAR capability is not only feasible, but relatively simple and not expensive as a percentage of the cost of the a/c. And its only a mechanical mod.

Now the only consideration is whether IN will seek that mod without looking at the enlarged options afforded to them by CAT ops. Rafale-N is high on that list.

The V22 was offered to Indian forces, among others as a AEW version as well and that could be used from an CATOBAR carrier as well, since it don't have to take off via catapults, but via short take off and lands vertically.

The V-22 came into consideration mainly because of STOBAR ops. With the CATOBAR option now open, that idea becomes redundant. Recap the offer of the E-2D Hawkeye to the IN and the IN's discussions after that. Connect that to the CAT ops. planned now, and you have your answer.
BTW, IN Aviation is steadily moving away from STOVL ops.; CATOBAR ops. will finally make that irrelevant.

Also the V22 is the only aircraft that could be used on our carriers as a tanker, long range MPA or long range utility aircraft.

Again the V-22 is relevant for that capability only in the context of STOVL/STOBAR. Again CATOBAR makes that infructous. Rather the Grumman C-2 Greyhound will be explored as its more capable and cost-beneficial.

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^ Why should the IN bother with trying to get the Mig-29K converted to CATOBAR congufation? They are good fighters but the IN has much better fighters such as the F-18 "silent eagle", Rafale-M and F-35C on the table which are already CATOBAR configured.

Again the V-22 is relevant for that capability only in the context of STOVL/STOBAR. Again CATOBAR makes that infructous. Rather the Grumman C-2 Greyhound will be explored as its more capable and cost-beneficial.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...configuration-navy-freez-5.html#ixzz24NbPTMbd

The C-2 is an old platform and only useful in the utility role. Any other roles would need to be filled by other a/c.

 

[SQ8]

The modification of the MiG-29 from STOBAR to CATOBAR capability is not only feasible, but relatively simple and not expensive as a percentage of the cost of the a/c. And its only a mechanical mod..

I disagree, The front structure will have to be reinforced to be able to withstand the pull of the catapult.
The Rafale offers much more in capability ALONG with the ability to operate from both Vikramaditya and this new carrier without modification(along with commonality with IAF in terms of a logistics train).

^^ Why should the IN bother with trying to get the Mig-29K converted to CATOBAR congufation? They are good fighters but the IN has much better fighters such as the F-18 "silent eagle", Rafale-M and F-35C on the table which are already CATOBAR configured.
The C-2 is an old platform and only useful in the utility role. Any other roles would need to be filled by other a/c.

The C-2 is redundant now and new airframes would be difficult to procure. the V-22 offers the ability of being useful in many more rules than just utility.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I disagree, The front structure will have to be reinforced to be able to withstand the pull of the catapult. The Rafale offers much more in capability ALONG with the ability to operate from both Vikramaditya and this new carrier without modification(along with commonality with IAF in terms of a logistics train).

Yes, along with changes in the fwd gear to attach the shuttle of the CAT. Now Santro will that not be a 'mechanical mod'? Or too difficult?
All the rest of the aircraft, be it engines, avionics etc. don't need changes.

About the Rafale; yes, with CAT ops. it'll zoom up on IN's popularity charts! May be they'll stop looking at anything else.
IMO, they will.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I think we should concentrate on finishing 1st carrier on time, instead on concentrating on 2nd carrier !!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think we should concentrate on finishing 1st carrier on time, instead on concentrating on 2nd carrier !!

One does not depend on the other, they are not sequential in anyway. In any case, its apparent that you have not been reading. The matter is that the design of the IAC-2 has been frozen.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think we should concentrate on finishing 1st carrier on time, instead on concentrating on 2nd carrier !!

Sily logic, the IAC-1 is under construction and lessons have been learnt that should mean the IAC-2 will be completed much faster. If construction only began of IAC-2 once IAC-1 was complete there would be a unnecessary and foolish delay between the two ACCs and then people would complain and question why construction wasn't started earlier.

The C-2 is redundant now and new airframes would be difficult to procure. the V-22 offers the ability of being useful in many more rules than just utility.

This is what I was trying to say, anyway good one Oscar.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Sily logic, the IAC-1 is under construction and lessons have been learnt that should mean the IAC-2 will be completed much faster. If construction only began of IAC-2 once IAC-1 was complete there would be a unnecessary and foolish delay between the two ACCs and then people would complain and question why construction wasn't started earlier.



.

So we can get again some "unseen" delays? Like the one happened over IAC 1?
C'mon man !! If its again on schedule, say 2017, i expect the carrier to be completed by 2015 atleast, not considering various tests conducted on the ac !!!
So i say, we can start constructing IAC 2 on 2015, after really learning all the complexities of building IAC 1 !!!

One does not depend on the other, they are not sequential in anyway. In any case, its apparent that you have not been reading. The matter is that the design of the IAC-2 has been frozen.

If u reas the article properly, its expected to be frozen by year end only !! We can again expect a delay of 6 more months !!
Note that, i am not criticising govt or CSL for delays !! When u construct something new, with new technologies, delays are expected to happen, its a learning process !!

 

[Abingdonboy]

So we can get again some "unseen" delays? Like the one happened over IAC 1?
C'mon man !! If its again on schedule, say 2017, i expect the carrier to be completed by 2015 atleast, not considering various tests conducted on the ac !!!
So i say, we can start constructing IAC 2 on 2015, after really learning all the complexities of building IAC 1 !!!

These "unseen" delays will be seen based on experince from IAC-1. Did anyone really expect India's first home-built 44,000+ tone carrier to be built without any delays? The good thing about the building first id you only have to do it once!

 

[tvsram1992]

By 2025, at least one Indian AC would be inducted. And LCA should be ready. Won't you say?

Yes a super carrier with Tejas MK3 naval versions on it .

 

[sancho]

Yes, along with changes in the fwd gear to attach the shuttle of the CAT. Now Santro will that not be a 'mechanical mod'? Or too difficult?
All the rest of the aircraft, be it engines, avionics etc. don't need changes.

You are highly mistaken buddy! To be able to take the forces of a catapult take off, not only the front gear, but the whole airframe needs further strengthenings, especially when the fighter design initially wasn't meant for carrier operations or in case of the Gripen for road landings. Tha's why the Mig or the EF can be re-designed to be used on STOBAR carriers, but for CATOBAR carriers way more changes are needed, which makes it not worth it.
The F18 and the Rafale on the other side were designed with carrier operation in mind, therefor have considerable strengthenings from the start, beeing used on a STOBAR carrier then, is actually less challanging.

The V-22 came into consideration mainly because of STOBAR ops. With the CATOBAR option now open, that idea becomes redundant. Recap the offer of the E-2D Hawkeye to the IN and the IN's discussions after that. Connect that to the CAT ops. planned now, and you have your answer.
BTW, IN Aviation is steadily moving away from STOVL ops.; CATOBAR ops. will finally make that irrelevant

That's completelly wrong! The V22 were offered and presented to IN (IN didn't showed any interest so far) as a utility and troop transport helicopter for our carriers and coming LDP/LHD. The AWACS version is just an option that they offer additionally.
The E-2D was not offered for any CATOBAR carrier, since we don't have one yet and won't have one anytime soon, but for the shore based AWACS requirement. The V22 wasn't offered here, but ELTAs G550 Phalcon AWACS, or the EMB DRDO AWACS.
So both helicopters currently have no relation to CATOBAR at al!

Another point is the C2, which is not in production anymore and that might be replaced by the V22 at USN aircraft carriers. They are already fielding qualification tests with it:

V-22 supports Harry S. Truman flight deck certification | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation


The V22 on an USN aircraft carrier actually could replace (in different versions / modifications):

E-2C - in the AWACS role
C2 - in the long range transport role
F18s with buddy refuelling pod - in the tanker role
Sea Hawks and C2s - in the MEDIVAC role
Sea Hawks - in the SAR role
Sea Hawks - in the ASW role

The big advantage of the V22 is it's versatility, that makes it useful for many different naval roles, but that also makes it too complicated and costly to maintain. That's why a Ch 53 or a Sea Hawk remains to be the better choices for normal utility roles, especially more cost effective.

 

[Allah Akbar]

forget him pls and bangladesh doesn't represented by him. congratulation INDIA

And what about your country?

 

[Allah Akbar]

I'm a bangladeshi too but your allies and my alies are not same. don't bull$hit in a good thread in the name of bangladesh.shame on you

Yeah I know my country is a mess and we know who are directly or indirectly responsible for aggravating our mess.



What is there to suppose? Its there for everyone to see.

And I never said we are ultra rich but yeah we love to do chest thumping for our allies and brothers. Any problem?

you have the rafael then why the migs!! when rafael is a carrier based fighter too. simply don't understand

^^ and INS Vishal can easily carry 30 Mig 29k fighters instead of 16 of Vikramaditya

 

[shree835]

I'm a bangladeshi too but your allies and my alies are not same. don't bull$hit in a good thread in the name of bangladesh.shame on you

you have the rafael then why the migs!! when rafael is a carrier based fighter too. simply don't understand

yes very true , we have Rafale as another option, but Mig 29k fighters are fitting into our requirement.