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India, Russia 5th Generation Fighter Jet Deal is ‘Lost’

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SOURCE : THE DIPLOMAT
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India, Russia 5th Generation Fighter Jet Deal : India and Russia have hit another hurdle in moving forward with one of their most prestigious joint defense projects, the co-development and production of the the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), known in India as the Perspective Multirole Fighter (PMF).

A senior Indian Air Force official revealed last week that Russia is demanding “an unaffordable price for the aircraft,” Defense News reported on May 24. According to the official, Moscow is allegedly demanding $7 billion from India as part of its share in the development of the fifth generation fighter jet, given that a work-sharing agreement currently under negotiation includes the transfer of sensitive Russian defense technology.

“India is not in a position to pay this kind of money, and the aircraft project appears to be lost,” the official said. India has been driving a hard bargain and the Indian Air Force official’s comment are likely intended to strengthen New Delhi’s bargaining position vis-à-vis Russia. Indian officials in May announced that the deal would not include tech transfers. “We are co-developers. There is nothing called technology transfer in this project,“ a government official said.

The transfer of sensitive defense technology from Russia to India has been one of the most contentious issues between the two sides right from the start, as I explained in March:

Before moving on, India wants a guarantee that it will be able to upgrade the fighter jet in the future without Russian support, which would require Moscow sharing source codes (sensitive computer code that controls the fighter jet’s various systems — the key to an aircraft’s electronic brains). In addition, the FGFA should directly support India’s advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) program — a separate Indian fifth generation fighter project.

At the beginning of the month, the issue appeared to have been resolved, according to Indian accounts, although Russia refused to comment on the negotiations publicly.

Following the official kickoff of the joint project in 2007, both countries concluded a preliminary $295 million design contract for the co-development of the FGFA/PMF in 2010. Right from the beginning both sides were at loggerheads, as I reported elsewhere:

Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered. After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities.
India and Russia also disagreed over the number of aircraft to be produced ::

Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions, including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

According to senior Russian defense officials, the Russian Air Force could possibly start receiving the first serial-produced fifth-generation T-50 (PAK FA) multi-role fighter jet in 2018.
SOURCE
 
good if that happens.
US NSA McMaster told Indian officials during his trip that Trump admin is open to sale F-35s to India.
 
For $7 billion, India can recruit a few thousand top researchers, engineers, and scientists and come up with something of its own in 15 years. Don't rely on DRDO. DRDO is a white elephant.

$7 billion is a lot of money. $7,000,000,000....

In Indian costs, you can build a whole military R$D city with this kinda money.
 
“India is not in a position to pay this kind of money, and the aircraft project appears to be lost,” the official said


India simply dont have money, they like to talk a lot of bullsh|t though. Its the same story repeating here when they boosted about buy 125 planes and dragged it for donkey years, endup buying 30 odd Rafaels siting lack of funds.
 
The Diplomat is not a very reliable source of information, and the writer's name is familiar for that same reason. Anyway, this issue should be cleared up in a few hours in St Petersburg where Modi is meeting Putin.
 
“India is not in a position to pay this kind of money, and the aircraft project appears to be lost,” the official said


India simply dont have money, they like to talk a lot of bullsh|t though. Its the same story repeating here when they boosted about buy 125 planes and dragged it for donkey years, endup buying 30 odd Rafaels siting lack of funds.

It more the Cost-Benefit analysis than lack of funds. That is standard in any democracy so that people can't go ahead and waste public money where they didn't have to for their own profit or whims.

India has bought more expensive stuff than this and every year sets aside plenty of funds for defence. It's the judicious utilization of those funds that stops a lot of deals.

I will pay you what you want if I feel I'm getting the value I want. Otherwise, no deal.

Read my post above. India can use $7billion much better than giving it to the Russians for an Aircraft we may not even be able to fully customize to our needs.
 
The Indian FGFA deal has been declared dead and reincarnated so many times these past few years. And projects once declared dead, like the Kaveri engine program, have been resuscitated via offsets from the Rafale jet purchase. It was still ridiculous of both Russia and India to expect fully-operational fifth gen fighter jets by 2022 (as widely reported earlier)
 
you are buying Rafale jet . those are very expensive your all money is wasted instead you should invest on 5th generation fighter what can i say you shout so much we are gona buy 126 fighters etc and you ended up with 36 only without ToT i hope india can waste more money
 
Russia asking huge money.I think India should focus on f-35.this Russian Indian fighter jet might be very dangerous for other jets if implemented.I think India should invest in it's air complex.you have to invest in hal or other air complex.it is very sad that India and Pakistan,both are struggling in this field.India must use money wisely.
 
For $7 billion, India can recruit a few thousand top researchers, engineers, and scientists and come up with something of its own in 15 years. Don't rely on DRDO. DRDO is a white elephant.

$7 billion is a lot of money. $7,000,000,000....

In Indian costs, you can build a whole military R$D city with this kinda money.
Dude, that could also have built the LCA.
 
Dude, that could also have built the LCA.

and you're right. LCA suffered for a variety of reasons including typical Indian sarkari culture, sanctions but mostly because Indians just don't like to spend money but want value.

You don't get value without money in this world.

If you want top notch tech, you have to pay for those top-notch brains who can build it.

If you pay for peanuts, you get peanuts.

If I'm a really good Java developer and you give me $1500 a month while Microsoft or Honeywell can give me $4000 with posting in premium locations around the world, I ain't gonna work for you no matter how patriotic I am. Don't count on my patriotism alone. You should also be patriotic enough to pay me more.
 
Dude, that could also have built the LCA.
i was about to say something like that.. but then I dint get any reliable source on the total cost of building the LCA.. what is it? can any Indian members answer that?

the total cost if building LCA
the total cost of rafale
total cost of PAK-FA

can we have a comparison please?
@Nilgiri @third eye
 
So Indian Next gen figther is in thin air now.
Too bad.
Indian trolls had even started to threat Pakistan with FGFA [emoji23]
Russia should scrap this project and Join hands with china to co develope a Platform for Russian Airforce.
Chinese have both Technical Infrastructure and Money to take up this project and get the valuable Russian input as well.
 

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