India refuses to provide dam water data to Pakistan

[ajtr]

For all members, please note that the topic is regarding Indian Gov, despite request from Pakistan Gov not sharing Water data even though it was of no harm to India but Pakistan could have in a better position to monitor water flows in up coming monsoon.
the point is why would a nation, who declares Pakistan as MFN and have quoted this grace of theirs on numbers of occasion, a nation that claims to be a regional power, striving for peace and stability in the region, a nation that claim to have always working all out, going an extra mile to establish good relations with neighbors, a nation with all the peace loving and sugar coated claim do so. Why will they not do something that do not harm them in any way but someone else, that happens to be there so called MFN can get benefit from this.
what are the reasons!!

please stay on topic and discuss the relevant point.

this thread have NOTHING to do with Pakistan wasting water, not building dam, Indian stealing water etc.

One simple point to ponder...
Why Indians not doing something that do not harm them but do benefit Pakistan...

whit all the Indian claims i mentioned above.. is this a case of worlds biggest democracy being worlds biggest hypocrisy??


Dams,, Wastage, Stealing... all these things are of-topic and i request MODS to take care of this!!

Pakistan's Govt.request is mischievous and misleading to say it straight to dump its failure to perform its dutie on water management so its searching the reason and shout from rooftops that india is the reason for pakistan failure of water policy.In a sense Pakistan Govt. is just misleading its awam on IWT.

SIR, please!!!!

the thread is not about CRYING ABOUT INDIA BUILDING DAM ON OUR RIVERS but about something that is totaly different.

i have said this before, let me try to explain again..
Building dams is something that is understandable as India get benefits from it. not sharing data is something that is of NO GOOD to India but only mean HARM to Pakistan...

Why so?? with all the talks of Aman and Friendship and being the biggest supporter of democracy and always going an extra mile to be friend with neighbors!!!


Why not?
if it is something , doing which wont harm you but will be good for someone, then why not!! Keeping in mind the Indian calims of being the most peace loving nation of the world!

read IWT for better perspective.Its not in indian prerogative to provide any data on three rivers pakistan asked data for ie satluj ravi beas under IWT.now dont ignore this main point to blame it on india for pak govt.'s failure.

One simple point to ponder...
Why Indians not doing something that do not harm them but do benefit Pakistan...

Let pakistan reciprocate on western rivers then india will reciprocate on easter.Seriously, Problem here with Pakistan govt is.....What ours is ours and we will keep it what india's is we can talk about and negotiate.

 

[livingdead]

We should give the data if they ask, whats wrong in sharing info.

 

[ajtr]

We should give the data if they ask, whats wrong in sharing info.

I'm of the opinion that india must divert eastern rivers completely as 100% of waters of these rivers is for india.Till today eastern rivers are allowed to flow into pakistan.For a matter of fact india is allowing to forgo water that flows into eastern rivers into pakistan.that will solve the problems of flood on satluj,ravi ,beas and need for pakistan to ask for data on these rivers as they did so against the rules of iwt.

 

[IND151]

Oh you want monsoon forecast.

India's crucial monsoon rains are still expected to be average in 2012.

Monsoon rains in 2012 would be 96 percent of the long-term average overall, down from its April forecast of 99 percent.

A normal or average monsoon means rainfall between 96-104 percent of a 50-year average of 89 centimetres in total during the four-month season from June, according to India's weather office classification.

July rains this year are likely to be 98 percent of the long period average, while the rainfall in August is forecast to be 96 percent of the average.

Rains picked up from early lows last week, but concerns remain as the monsoon is still performing below average and the rains are behind schedule particularly in the grain bowl of the north-west.

Pass it to ur meteorological department IF u have any... and tell SpArK from PDF gave you and its accurate..


And regarding water in dam.. its half empty and half full.

Problemo Solved.

its good that rainfall will be average this year

i was worried that this year we may face famine like situation

On Topic> ajtr has explained why we are not sharing data. its enough explanation i think

 

[karan.1970]

For all members, please note that the topic is regarding Indian Gov, despite request from Pakistan Gov not sharing Water data even though it was of no harm to India but Pakistan could have in a better position to monitor water flows in up coming monsoon.
the point is why would a nation, who declares Pakistan as MFN and have quoted this grace of theirs on numbers of occasion, a nation that claims to be a regional power, striving for peace and stability in the region, a nation that claim to have always working all out, going an extra mile to establish good relations with neighbors, a nation with all the peace loving and sugar coated claim do so. Why will they not do something that do not harm them in any way but someone else, that happens to be there so called MFN can get benefit from this.
what are the reasons!!

please stay on topic and discuss the relevant point.

this thread have NOTHING to do with Pakistan wasting water, not building dam, Indian stealing water etc.

One simple point to ponder...
Why Indians not doing something that do not harm them but do benefit Pakistan...

whit all the Indian claims i mentioned above.. is this a case of worlds biggest democracy being worlds biggest hypocrisy??

Thanks for reclarifying the subject..

To your point, you have summed it well.. Pakistan has requested for some information that India is not obligated to share but can share as a gesture of goodwill towards Pakistan. The answer is simple as well.. Pakistan does not have much goodwill left in India.

Sharing this information has nothing to do with Democracy (unless you used the term only because it ryhmes with the word hypocrisy), and everything to do with the kind of relations India and Pakistan have, which by no strech of imagination can be termed as good.

When you thmb your nose at terror strikes in India that lead to death of Indian civilians and allow the perpetrators of those attacks to roam free in Pakistan.. and hide behind technicalities, be ready to face the consequences. When consequences are talked about, Keyboard warriors and fanboys on these forums talk about surgical strikes and burst into giggles making snide remarks about India's inability to execute them.. What they miss is long lead time reactions like these which cause much more damage to Pakistan as a whole than what a hellfire missile in a surgical strike can do. And the best part is that they are passively punitive where India is able to hit back at Pakistan without having to fire a shot and while staying well within the norms of international obligations..

 

[IND151]

Thanks for reclarifying the subject..

To your point, you have summed it well.. Pakistan has requested for some information that India is not obligated to share but can share as a gesture of goodwill towards Pakistan. The answer is simple as well.. Pakistan does not have much goodwill left in India.

Sharing this information has nothing to do with Democracy (unless you used the term only because it ryhmes with the word hypocrisy), and everything to do with the kind of relations India and Pakistan have, which by no strech of imagination can be termed as good.

When you thmb your nose at terror strikes in India that lead to death of Indian civilians and allow the perpetrators of those attacks to roam free in Pakistan.. and hide behind technicalities, be ready to face the consequences. When consequences are talked about, Keyboard warriors and fanboys on these forums talk about surgical strikes and burst into giggles making snide remarks about India's inability to execute them.. What they miss is long lead time reactions like these which cause much more damage to Pakistan as a whole than what a hellfire missile in a surgical strike can do. And the best part is that they are passively punitive where India is able to hit back at Pakistan without having to fire a shot and while staying well within the norms of international obligations..

i didn't think about this aspect.thanks

 

[ajtr]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2012/07/18/story_18-7-2012_pg7_1

Indian authorities took a strong position to defend their stance on certain hydropower projects, however Pakistani authorities couldn’t clearly present their point of view.

Thi had always remained bane for pakistan that they lack water experts and hydrologist who can understand the Complex technicalities and intricacies of the dams and IWT.During one of the visits of the Syed Jamat Ali Shah when he was PPIC when discussions were still going on over the Baglihar issue. Indian PIC decided to take them to IIT Roorkee to the Hydrological Institute to show them the technical model of the BHEP. At the end of the meeting, the PPIC Syed Jamat Ali Shah openly declared that they could not understand most of the technical matters. This news Item corroborates those facts now when Jamat Ali Shah says:

Syed Jamaat Ali Shah said the two sides did not trust each other. “We want to get at least drinking water from the Ravi, Sutlej and Bias. When we last tried negotiating it, India wanted water from the Chenab. It also did not discharge its Ravi water, saying Pakistan is wasteful of its resources and cannot be trusted.”
He said when Pakistan asked for early information on water discharge so it could compile flood warnings, the Indians sought water from the Chenab and Indus.
He said that Pakistan lacked water experts. “We do not have a single international water expert in Pakistan. We always seek help from England or the US. We cannot negotiate with India unless we increase capacity,” he said.
“How can anyone from our government talk about water as an economic resource with [Indian Prime Minsiter] to Manmohan Singh? He has a PhD in economics; no one in our government does,” he said.

India-Pakistan issues: Forget Kashmir, terrorism. Worry about water – The Express Tribune

Seems like same is the case here with Nimo Bazgo project.Sensing india is on strong technical and legal footing pakistan govt. has decided against appealing this project at ICA.otherwise it too would have been redux of BHEP.

 

[Arsalan]

Simply Because when our demands are met on political level then only we will "provide" you anything , even if it just information . If we had "information" on 26/11 it would never had happened . If terror camps was clamped down many terror attacks on India would not have happened . Karma's is a *****. It always get backs at you . This is just a Boomerang effect of your actions .

which terror camps? are you talking about the freedom fighters fighting for Independence in Kashmir??
or the Mumbai saga, where as a matter f fact, despite years passing, not concrete evidence have been provided to Pakistan from India.
we send a delegation to India to help in this matter but the committee was NOT ALLOWED to interrogate the witnesses!! WHY?

we just wanted to ask some question is front of your authorities but they were so much afraid that the whole drama will flop that even asking some question from WITNESS, i repeat WITNESS and not CONVICTS was allowed!

Thanks for reclarifying the subject..

To your point, you have summed it well.. Pakistan has requested for some information that India is not obligated to share but can share as a gesture of goodwill towards Pakistan. The answer is simple as well.. Pakistan does not have much goodwill left in India.
.

so that is it.. that is what i was asking and trying to figure out.. so with this NOT SO mUCH GOOD WILL left, all the peace talks and mending ties is just a drama!!

Sharing this information has nothing to do with Democracy (unless you used the term only because it ryhmes with the word hypocrisy), and everything to do with the kind of relations India and Pakistan have, which by no strech of imagination can be termed as good.

When you thmb your nose at terror strikes in India that lead to death of Indian civilians and allow the perpetrators of those attacks to roam free in Pakistan.. and hide behind technicalities, be ready to face the consequences. When consequences are talked about, Keyboard warriors and fanboys on these forums talk about surgical strikes and burst into giggles making snide remarks about India's inability to execute them.. What they miss is long lead time reactions like these which cause much more damage to Pakistan as a whole than what a hellfire missile in a surgical strike can do. And the best part is that they are passively punitive where India is able to hit back at Pakistan without having to fire a shot and while staying well within the norms of international obligations.

answered above!! why are we not given facts, proofs but just claims and acquisitions??? why no interrogations allowed?

Oh you want monsoon forecast.

India's crucial monsoon rains are still expected to be average in 2012.

Monsoon rains in 2012 would be 96 percent of the long-term average overall, down from its April forecast of 99 percent.

A normal or average monsoon means rainfall between 96-104 percent of a 50-year average of 89 centimetres in total during the four-month season from June, according to India's weather office classification.

July rains this year are likely to be 98 percent of the long period average, while the rainfall in August is forecast to be 96 percent of the average.

Rains picked up from early lows last week, but concerns remain as the monsoon is still performing below average and the rains are behind schedule particularly in the grain bowl of the north-west.

Pass it to ur meteorological department IF u have any... and tell SpArK from PDF gave you and its accurate..


And regarding water in dam.. its half empty and half full.

Problemo Solved.

yes, as i mentioned, this is no rocket science. with all the advancements in technology, this is nothing that can be or is meant to be kept secret!!
it would have been better if Indian Giv could have shared this data and we could have moved forward. this is no something that we wont get to know about since Indian haven't told us. but don't you think it would have been better for all the PEACE TALK claims if this was shared officially by the Govs!

We should give the data if they ask, whats wrong in sharing info.

Simple! No harm to India, Good for Pakistan.. all things move forward happily!!

 

[karan.1970]

so that is it.. that is what i was asking and trying to figure out.. so with this NOT SO mUCH GOOD WILL left, all the peace talks and mending ties is just a drama!!

Pretty much.. the best case scenario that can be achieved is that we stop hating each other (as 2 countries.. People to people is a different ballgame alltogether).. Liking each other is an option that has been long destroyed...

answered above!! why are we not given facts, proofs but just claims and acquisitions??? why no interrogations allowed?

That's not the topic of discussion here.. You want to play technicalities.. Fair enough.. What you are doing is within the lawful rights of Pakistan.. What India is doing by refusing to share its internal data is also within the lawful rights of India.. Why cry a river (pun intended) then..

 

[Hulk]

In the same lines, what is the problem with Pakistan with providing the data, the voice sample for 26/11 attackers. You are trying to be difficult for no reason on something that matters so much to us.

 

[Arsalan]

That's not the topic of discussion here.. You want to play technicalities.. Fair enough.. What you are doing is within the lawful rights of Pakistan.. What India is doing by refusing to share its internal data is also within the lawful rights of India.. Why cry a river (pun intended) then..

no one is crying brother!!
i am mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread in my last posts, i say it again...
This data is nothing that can be or is to be meant confidential and will be available for stud and planning one way or the other.
we just approached through proper channel and the response was a bit surprising. Surprising when we keep in view all the claim that Indians make in international community about them being the peace loving nation and Pakistan unwillingness to restore ties!

Anyway, thanks for contributing!

 

[Rusty]

no one is crying brother!!
i am mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread in my last posts, i say it again...
This data is nothing that can be or is to be meant confidential and will be available for stud and planning one way or the other.
we just approached through proper channel and the response was a bit surprising. Surprising when we keep in view all the claim that Indians make in international community about them being the peace loving nation and Pakistan unwillingness to restore ties!

Anyway, thanks for contributing!

The problem is that India has never been a peace loving nation, The first thing the did after independence was to start a war that is still causing problems to this day.

In more recent times, Musharraf did everything in his power to get more peaceful relations with India. But Indians just held a few token meeting and dismissed him all together.
It is undeniable that if India had been interested in peace, then we could have already had it by now.

 

[karan.1970]

no one is crying brother!!
i am mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread in my last posts, i say it again...
This data is nothing that can be or is to be meant confidential and will be available for stud and planning one way or the other.
we just approached through proper channel and the response was a bit surprising. Surprising when we keep in view all the claim that Indians make in international community about them being the peace loving nation and Pakistan unwillingness to restore ties!

Anyway, thanks for contributing!

You shouldnt be surprised by the bold part.. You are a Pakistani and Pakistan claims to be a front line state AGAINST terror..

The problem is that India has never been a peace loving nation, The first thing the did after independence was to start a war that is still causing problems to this day.

In more recent times, Musharraf did everything in his power to get more peaceful relations with India. But Indians just held a few token meeting and dismissed him all together.
It is undeniable that if India had been interested in peace, then we could have already had it by now.

Even a bigger problem is Pakistan's entitlement mentality. You want something from India which is not yours to ask and when you dont get it, you get all riled up.. Take a break... have kit kat

 

[Hulk]

no one is crying brother!!
i am mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread in my last posts, i say it again...
This data is nothing that can be or is to be meant confidential and will be available for stud and planning one way or the other.
we just approached through proper channel and the response was a bit surprising. Surprising when we keep in view all the claim that Indians make in international community about them being the peace loving nation and Pakistan unwillingness to restore ties!

Anyway, thanks for contributing!

I do not see any connection between sharing the data and being peace loving.

I am all for co operation but has to be two way street. What have we got in return?

 

[Rusty]

You shouldnt be surprised by the bold part.. You are a Pakistani and Pakistan claims to be a front line state AGAINST terror..



Even a bigger problem is Pakistan's entitlement mentality. You want something from India which is not yours to ask and when you dont get it, you get all riled up.. Take a break... have kit kat

I know English might be difficult for you since it's not your first language but I urge you to re read what I said.
I don't think you will find anyplace where I said Pakistan is entitled to anything.
I did say India is not a peaceful country, and since you did not rebut that point I can only assume that you agree with it.