India-Pakistan Standoff September 2016 - Member opinions

[Hellfire]

@Viper0011.

Nothing much to read into what information you are getting, a pressure ploy by either side to get US involved. It is like two kids fighting and asking the parent to intervene before actual damage occurs.

China will bear down on Pakistan, it is keen on CPEC and is not stupid not to realise the potential trouble here. India will claim a moral victory as NS will promise to investigate (and his skin will be strung up on the wall of GHQ's Officer's Mess Ante Room just like Kargil; therefore PA gets away scot free of buckling; which it shall under Chinese pressure, earlier it was US) and hence India will shut up, a few men will be killed in a covert op by India and Army will shut up. And it will be back to business as usual.

It is normal stand by procedure. We see it happen whenever the PA sends their minions across. Our airbases and troops are on standby too. Theirs are too. Till troops call it another of the prickly arse case and bugger off.

Just letting off steam till it is business as usual in another 48 hours max.

 

[gslv mk3]

Well ......is it really Pakistan that has more poverty or India? Pakistan may be smaller and weaker in terms of the economy, but in India, over 700 million people don't have proper bathrooms, sanitation cookware, etc, etc. So doesn't it make sense that India needs Kashmir to keep scaring off the Indian public about Pakistan, so the public won't ask the real questions, as to where are the dozens of billions of dollars.....and why aren't they spent on public welfare??

Pakistan has far higher level of undernourishment & lower HDI than India.

Also India spends a far lower percentage of its budget for defense expenditure despite having a far bigger budget (as % of GDP) & higher tax to GDP ratio.

 

[Dash]

Just letting off steam till it is business as usual in another 48 hours max.

Thats a VERY hard hitting 'fact'. We have a habit of running away from mess.

 

[IndusisHindu]

Well ......is it really Pakistan that has more poverty or India? Pakistan may be smaller and weaker in terms of the economy, but in India, over 700 million people don't have proper bathrooms, sanitation cookware, etc, etc. So doesn't it make sense that India needs Kashmir to keep scaring off the Indian public about Pakistan, so the public won't ask the real questions, as to where are the dozens of billions of dollars.....and why aren't they spent on public welfare??

I'm not denying that India doesn't need the boogeyman called Pakistan to define its own existence, ideologically, politically or economically. But India being bigger, more resourceful, can look beyond Pakistan (read China) as a possible more advanced competitor. This doesn't necessarily mean that the fruits of economic development in India are proportionate for all. But those who indeed are beneficiaries of such development can really afford to give 0 thoughts about the existence of a country called Pakistan.

Pakistan in this regard can't exist without India, as there is no need for a Pakistan without an India.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Quite. A childish thought, but it seems to be thought of frequently, along with other bizarre schemes.

What childish thought,I beg to differ if you think I have childish thought of conquering lands.

 

[jha]

I think some war or a conflict is coming.Per my sources two hours ago (consider it direct from Gen. Raheel's desk),

Ok...

 

[Joe Shearer]

There is NO inevitability.

It is a tense time, but as such; we MUST push for peace, promote peace and prepare for peace. War is not an option that should be encouraged or planned for because then we PLAY into what India wants.

This is a matter on which I feel completely defeated.

History was never decided on documentation, and when it was the effects have been anything but wonderful; take the modern middle eastern map carved out by British bureaucrats and military officers at pure whim.. great results of that happening today.
The same goes for Kashmir.

History is based on ideologies and if there is a common one, then documents be damned.

Yes, and no.

Ideologies determine the stands that people take. These stands are sometimes opposed, sometimes they are universally accepted. When they are opposed, the conflict may be resolved in various ways, one set of which happen to be violent ways. Wars are won by different sets of people; it is not inevitable, and it is also not unknown, that wars should have an unclear outcome.

So ideologies matter, but they are not the only deciding factors. Of course, what you are saying is that both sides in a conflict inevitably have an ideology. This is true if, and only if, we include theology under ideology; a big tent, but not inconceivable, at least from the point of view of this particular discussion.

In the present case, there were clashing ideologies, the TNT and the One Nation Theory of the Congress, if that coinage may be used. The documents that I refer to were documents created which were linked to the immediate past of constitutional development, and were also intended to be neutral between the ideologies. There is excellent reason to have adopted that neutral approach. It was rejected by one side, not entirely in a binary fashion - both sides were guilty of guilty compromises - but largely, and specifically in this matter.

Coming to the ideology prevailing, it was not universal. It was decidedly location-specific; the people of western Jammu, and the people of Gilgit were of one mind, the people of the Valley and the people of Ladakh, plus of course the people of eastern Jammu were of another mind. It is not legitimate to take subsequent developments and force-fit them onto the events of that time. Nor is it legitimate to consider that the entire matter might be altered or amended at any time in future; there was no floating pass.

Because of the multifarious ideologies, there needs to have been a reconciliatory document, a document reconciling the different points of view generated by the ideologies. That is the document in question.

He was not a radio, he was someone was ego; the PA shunned his idea of peace and now he is a bruised man out for revenge... he actually fought against his hardline hindutva cabal for peace but now they get to say "i told you so" and he is left saying " tell me what you want me to do".

Precisely.

 

[I.R.A]

my sources tell me from Army, three special forces teams,,, Gazni, Gauri & taimur has reached afganistan and assigned three high value targets so we might see action now,
ofcourse these three team names are highly symbolic they are coming from afganistan all of these three pure muslim race warriors were responsible of brutally eradicating, raping and looting and converting pagan ancestors of modern day pakistanis @Kaptaan can give more idea on this as resident modern day pakistani historian, ofcourse the teams are from gangaland so special surgeries are being done to make them fit into unique pakistani race with caucasian features major thank to gazni gauri and taimur ofcourse.

Can I request you one thing .................. can this war be between india and Pakistan only? I mean you spent so much time sending troops to Afghanistan and then from there they would try entering Pakistan ............ can the script be changed a little bit................ and make this war more swift and direct?

By the way its a disgrace the team that is going to avenge deaths of 17 indian soldiers don't have names that sound original and genuine ..............

 

[graphican]

True. Any resolution of the dispute is between Pakistan and India, bilaterally, by treaty.

Yep. On the world stage, Kashmir doesn't belong to India and its ownership stands at dispute.

Subject to conditions being met, which have not been met, and which have made the original offer obsolete.

Status of Kashmir is not subjected to conditions. Its plebiscite is subjected to conditions but not the disputed status of Kashmir

Obsolete. Conditions for holding the plebiscite were not met. Blame the idiots who did not meet the conditions, not India.

Pakistan doesn't trust India - and that made it not withdraw its army. India is biased that it has denined international media access to the valley froom the last 35+ years. What honesty could you exept from a country who's killings "its countrymen" for changint Azadi.

Wrong

You are ill-informed. Educate yourself on Legal status of Kashmir as per Indian Constitution.
Reference: http://abbtakk.tv/en/occupied-kashmir-is-not-integral-part-of-india-indian-sc-verdict011115/

Wrong. The High Court was set up by the Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir. What the Constitution says supersedes anything else.

Kashmir HC - Kashmir not a part of India.
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline/jammu-kashmir-not-part-of-india-srinagar-high-court-rules/

Really? Tough luck.

Yes Indeed! Open your eyes, watch few recent videos, shatter your "atoot ang" dreams.

I don't remember being speechless or out of arguments on any one of hundreds of occasions when silly little people have raised this. Perhaps you have been talking to your equivalents among the Indian members.

Watch this PDF and watch response of Indians. You are not the only Indian soul here.

Read the Indian Independence Act, 1947, and the Instrument of Accession, 1947, and pipe down. If you find it difficult to read these, get them read out to you.



Where did you get that mythical figure?


Are you referring to the same person who has been received in the White House?

Yes, Mr. Modi. And look at your reason of satisfaction that he is being received in White House. If this is your ultimate trophy then good.. you've won it - but on Kashmir, the same Mr. Modi is a loser and is going to lose even more. Let there be no doubt on his inability to control this situation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What childish thought,I beg to differ if you think I have childish thought of conquering lands.

LOL. It's the opposite. I was agreeing with you,and suggesting that those who think of including Kabul are being childish.

 

[RedHulk]

He clearly need to mention it as false flag. If Indian can't prove it is done by Pakistan so do we don't need to prove it was a false flag. More over it will create an uproar in world who been ignoring Kashmir issue and will demoralize Indian public and army . who will be in conflict if it was done by Pakistan or India it self. Called mind games . Emphasize on samjotah express

 

[graphican]

There is comedian in India call Raju Shrivastava. More people will listen to him than your PM. Trust me he is nobody in world forum. Does not matter what he says.

Its actually true. No one listens to Nawaz in Pakistan either. He is the Indian friend sitting on the PM's chair in Pakistan and needs to be removed from his chair.

 

[Sine Nomine]

LOL. It's the opposite. I was agreeing with you,and suggesting that those who think of including Kabul are being childish.

My bad sir,You wrote that Durand line should be reviewed but it not merely a Question of some villages or some Sq km of lands actually there are folks in Afghanistan who claim kpk and Balochistan and then there are folks who jump to last Panipat war and they claim whole of Pakistan including Rann of kutch and Amritsar.As you wrote about weak neighbour's I must tell in last 70 years durand line never required any Passport or document to get crossed untill now when kabuli elites just crossed every limit.
Just imagine if Afghan's are given what they claim and very next day India would be dealing handicapped Ghani,Drug Dealer Abdullah and Killer Dostum along with tons of opium crossing into India everyday.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yep. On the world stage, Kashmir doesn't belong to India and its ownership stands at dispute.

Good luck with getting the world to do anything about Pakistan dragging its problems to the world's doorstep and dropping them there.

Status of Kashmir is not subjected to conditions. Its plebiscite is subjected to conditions but not the disputed status of Kashmir

The status of Kashmir was subject to a plebiscite, first required by India, and the UN had recommended certain measures. One side didn't adhere to the UN's recommendations. They therefore no longer stand. Beyond that, sovereignty passed to the Union of India on three areas, defence, foreign affairs and communications, and to the legislative assembly of J&K set up by its constituent assembly.

There is no longer any possibility of plebiscite, once the constitution is in place. How Pakistan wishes to resolve the dispute is entirely up to Pakistan. After 1972, India will not accept any multilateral discussion on the matter.

Pakistan doesn't trust India - and that made it not withdraw its army. India is biased that it has denined international media access to the valley froom the last 35+ years. What honesty could you exept from a country who's killings "its countrymen" for changint Azadi.

The honesty in the situation consisted of adhering to the recommendations of the UN. Pakistan was dishonest, first, in claiming that it had no troops in Kashmir, second, in then refusing to keep to the UN's recommendations.

As far as denial of access to foreign media is concerned, the foreign media have tramped through Kashmir so often that they seem like residents.

You are ill-informed. Educate yourself on Legal status of Kashmir as per Indian Constitution.
Reference: http://abbtakk.tv/en/occupied-kashmir-is-not-integral-part-of-india-indian-sc-verdict011115/

Kashmir HC - Kashmir not a part of India.
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline/jammu-kashmir-not-part-of-india-srinagar-high-court-rules/

This is why I do not like discussions with the dull. The Supreme Court was referring to the Pakistan occupied parts of Kashmir. The J&K High Court cannot amend its own constitution.

Yes Indeed! Open your eyes, watch few recent videos, shatter your "atoot ang" dreams.



Watch this PDF and watch response of Indians. You are not the only Indian soul here.



Yes, Mr. Modi. And look at your reason of satisfaction that he is being received in White House. If this is your ultimate trophy then good.. you've won it - but on Kashmir, the same Mr. Modi is a loser and is going to lose even more. Let there be no doubt on his inability to control this situation.

I understand that you are under the impression that your assertions thereby automatically achieve canonical status. A good impression to have; it will relieve the chafing of the restraining straps.

Although I oppose Modi, he has been receiving American attention to a fulsome degree. That extends to every aspect of cooperation that he has sought. He requires, and his country requires no assistance from anyone else to manage their own affairs. Whether Kashmir or any other.

 

[Vapnope]

More like a PDF members standoff. Some of the comments from both sides are giving me cancer. Such warmongering, such hate and blind nationalism. What a day to be alive !