India-Pakistan Standoff September 2016 - Member opinions

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

@Oscar

Thanks brother.

Let us please keep prophecies based on scriptures out of this discussion.

Let's just concentrate on discussing ....

THE NEXT ACTIONS PAKISTAN SHOULD MAKE FOR THE INEVITABLE (WAR).

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan from the very first day of its inception was meant to include Kashmir as it was and still is a Muslim majority state. For your knowledge, every letter in Pakistan represented a state starting with

P = Punjab
A = Afghana (Old name of Khyber Pakhtonkua)
K = Kashmir
S = Sindh
Tan = Baluchistan

Only the letter "I" was added to make pronunciation easy.

On the main note, who cares what Indian documents say about the creation of Pakistan. Indian documents and India's claim of Kashmir were rubbished by UN as well - and that is why Plebiscite is demanded and accepted by UN. You have a document in which Kashmir doesn't belong to Pakistan? Go show this document to Kashmiris and try to make sense to them.

Every time someone ill-read on this pipes up, I remember all over again why it is so attractive NOT to participate.

You can't decide a state on the basis of an acronym coined by a deranged undergraduate. You decide on the basis of legislation, in this case, legislation by the British Parliament.

The UN never rubbished anything; it accepted India's proposals in toto, but with the disconcerting omission of condemnation of aggression. It went so far as to refuse to accept Pakistan as an automatic member, as a successor state of British India, which was one of the founding members of the UN.

Yes, I do have documents in which Kashmir doesn't belong to Pakistan, and yes, I have shown it to Kashmiris. Most of them had been brought up on the same rubbish that I find many members repeating. What I said and explained came as a revelation to them.

There are lots of issues that you need to learn about. Till then, please don't bother to correct me. It is irritating.

 

[SQ8]

Thanks for merging the threads.

I think the OP didn't intended (as he mentioned above) to discuss holy scriptures. It was more like:

Since India "has" decided to go to war with Pakistan, Pakistan should:

1) Stop looking here and there for support;

2) Stop thinking that "there won't be any war";

3) Start preparing and get ready;

4) Demonstrate the readiness and preparedness with actions, rather than mere words;

5) Demonstrate also, that in the event of war, it'll be M.A.D.

1 & 2. So basically, there should be no support and a qualitatively and qualitatively inferior Pakistani military should just jump into war and lead its troops into massive losses so people can.. to use the term "peet taalis" on shaheeds?

3. Great, find yourself a gun and head to the front lines.. the only other readiness I see is people becoming like snakes to their fellow Pakistanis and wanting to kill them for opposing their views rather than having the gut.. sorry.. effort to even try and make an actual difference. threatening and killing fellow Pakistanis easier, making a social chance, economic chance.. political change.. or PR effort is difficult.

4. Sure, so Pakistan Army should do 1 & 2 and what is left after the rubble will be taken over by the extremists and a Taliban warlord regime comes in

5. I can assure you that both India and Pakistan dont need war to demonstrate the madness of their populations.

 

[Pakistan First]

I'm quoting a couple of posts from one of our esteemed brother from China. These are through-provoking and relevant. @Sinopakfriend

= = = =

My dear Pak Brother,

My Pak Brothers,

The farce is transforming into tragedy.

The indian regime has dug itslef a deep hole and only way it can crawl out is by de-esclating tensions that it has manufactured itself. But it shall not do so....

The self fulfilling prophecies of indian media has conditioned the indian empires public about their invincibility and lust for conquest. The public mood in indian empire is beligerent and politicians are but victims of their own rhetoric.

Sad truth is that now Pak is all on its own and must be prepared for full scale war with definitive US involvement on indian side to not breach nuclear threshold. In other words take the beating with hands tied to the back...at least that is the planning.

You must be prepared for full scale war now..might start with mellowing down through sanctions alla iraq or might be swift indian attack under garb of being a victim. Indian will try to cover international scence through diplomatic dance.. preparing the grounds if you like.

This process is already a couple of years old. So, Pak Brothers be prepared for full war. From within indian terror on Pak soil and from without indian agression.

Please, do no count on any brotherly nations to come to your aid... you are on your own as always.

Be prepared and dont let the evil hegemon surprise you.

This is tragedy unfolding... I am saddened at the loss of possible life...but the imperial lust for expansion in in indian regime has now become too strong for anyone in india to control.

Prepare for greatest struggle of your national life.

Forgive me for saying that but your political class is not mature enough to deal with this organised and very well planned onslaught of indian emperial agression. Poltically and diplomatically you are poorly prepared.

Become One in national need and you are not going down. Never.

Prepare for your Finnest Hour.

Long Live Pakistan!


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india’s-pakistan-policy-comes-home-to-roost.450032/page-2#ixzz4KlmNyIDP

- - - -

Firstly, I strongly believe that this so called terror attack is a staged event. Perfect timing just before the UN meeting. So once again the biggest terror sponsor and terrorist state will fake victimhood.

Second, who benefits is the fundamental question? Not Pakistan or Kashmir. So who benefits from this act?

Thirdly, the window of opportunity to attack Pak is closing fast on india... the illegal, oppressive empire has bitten more than it can chew. CPEC is not only gamechanger for Pak but it will neutralise indian empire's hegemonic designs in the region and in the Afro-Asian aka indian Ocean.

So, Pak will break free economically, scoially and militarity from indian hegemony. In other words this sick and evil oppressor will remain boxed in the south asian planes... forever. And all its dreams of becoming super power bite the dust.

So after creating terror in Pak and destroying thousands of families and lives... it failed. It started to openly challenging CPEC and then it raised the game of openly sponsoring the break up of Pak through its sick Baloch gamble... each and every move has failed.

What is left now for this sick and expansionist state now?

Either it has to accept reality and become constructive state in the region and solve the Kashmir oppression peacefully OR it has to up the ante and go for biggest gamle of all...

This indian regime is not rational... it suffers from its own propaganda... which is a dangerous environment to be in.

The indian regime is prone to make a mistake...it has to distract attention from Kashmir. In its calculus it can slove this problem by annexing your southern province where it has proxies and some parts of your Punjab...

This is crazy but the regime is not rational... the modi regime is in a bunker mentality and in this group think they will do silly things.

You all need to be prepared and united.

In adversity also lies strength and rebirth.

The defining moment is reaching event horizon both for Kashmir and Pak... your road to progress goes through Dhelli.

https://defence.pk/threads/india’s-pakistan-policy-comes-home-to-roost.450032/page-3#post-8704513

= = = =

 

[Super Falcon]

Modi S probleum is he is a radio where ever he go start same hared cassette on Pakistan over and over again world leaders are sick of him

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

Thanks brother.

Let us please keep prophecies based on scriptures out of this discussion.

Let's just concentrate on discussing ....

THE NEXT ACTIONS PAKISTAN SHOULD MAKE FOR THE INEVITABLE (WAR).

There is NO inevitability.

It is a tense time, but as such; we MUST push for peace, promote peace and prepare for peace. War is not an option that should be encouraged or planned for because then we PLAY into what India wants.

Yes, I do have documents in which Kashmir doesn't belong to Pakistan, and yes, I have shown it to Kashmiris. Most of them had been brought up on the same rubbish that I find many members repeating. What I said and explained came as a revelation to them..

History was never decided on documentation, and when it was the effects have been anything but wonderful; take the modern middle eastern map carved out by British bureaucrats and military officers at pure whim.. great results of that happening today.
The same goes for Kashmir.

History is based on ideologies and if there is a common one, then documents be damned.

Modi S probleum is he is a radio where ever he go start same hared cassette on Pakistan over and over again world leaders are sick of him

He was not a radio, he was someone was ego; the PA shunned his idea of peace and now he is a bruised man out for revenge... he actually fought against his hardline hindutva cabal for peace but now they get to say "i told you so" and he is left saying " tell me what you want me to do".

 

[Joe Shearer]

You wonder what miserable failure in the education system the British left us led to this?

My own thought on this, and it is reactionary in the extreme, is that we did not spread Macaulayite education far enough, deep enough, and that secondly, the eradication of the humanities is very largely responsible.

For the first, it was not just English that one learnt, but a value system which did have superior qualities over those I see today. Disclaimer: I was educated briefly at La Martiniere, whose Lucknow branch is one of two educational institutes world-wide entitled to battle honours, like a regiment. That might have had some harmful effects.

For the second, I cannot say for Pakistan, but in India,capitation fee colleges for engineering, medicine, dentistry and so on spread like wildfire in the 90s and later, and these are largely responsible for breeding technical coolies with no idea whatsoever about anything beyond their technical knowledge. These were training institutes, not educational institutes. Since they lacked any information or knowledge about the humanities, or any of the social sciences or of history, they took to what they knew best, the Internet. The rest follows in natural sequence.

Most Indian trolls and bhakts on PDF were bred like that. Not their fault, but it is difficult to love them. I don't know why Pakistan went off at the deep end about religion, other than speculating that the Zia years might have accelerated a natural post-Macaulayite process.

 

[Pakistan First]

5. I can assure you that both India and Pakistan dont need war to demonstrate the madness of their populations.

Go ahead. I'm all ears.

India and Pakistan, not "needing" war as against India "wanting" war. It is the later which is being discussed and in relation to that, what should Pakistan's next steps be.

I understand your frustration with the fundamentalist mindset and agree with you. However, it seems that the Indian political leadership and their appeasing military chiefs have been put in a corner by their public and media, which are demanding military strikes, which we all feel, will only escalate into a war.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There is NO inevitability.

It is a tense time, but as such; we MUST push for peace, promote peace and prepare for peace. War is not an option that should be encouraged or planned for because then we PLAY into what India wants.



History was never decided on documentation, and when it was the effects have been anything but wonderful; take the modern middle eastern map carved out by British bureaucrats and military officers at pure whim.. great results of that happening today.
The same goes for Kashmir.

History is based on ideologies and if there is a common one, then documents be damned.


He was not a radio, he was someone was ego; the PA shunned his idea of peace and now he is a bruised man out for revenge... he actually fought against his hardline hindutva cabal for peace but now they get to say "i told you so" and he is left saying " tell me what you want me to do".

That was said for effect, to shut up a particularly irritating member.

 

[Pakistan First]

It is a tense time, but as such; we MUST push for peace, promote peace and prepare for peace. War is not an option that should be encouraged or planned for because then we PLAY into what India wants.

Yes, we must push for peace and promote peace. But we must also prepare for the worst case scenario. War must not be encouraged but we must be ready if one is thrusted on us.

He (modi) was not a radio, he was someone with ego; the PA shunned his idea of peace and now he is a bruised man out for revenge... he actually fought against his hardline hindutva cabal for peace but now they get to say "i told you so" and he is left saying " tell me what you want me to do".

Please share:

1) When and how did PA shun his idea of peace, and while you're at it, what idea?

2) When and how he fought against his darling hindutva cabal for peace?

 

[graphican]

Every time someone ill-read on this pipes up, I remember all over again why it is so attractive NOT to participate.

You can't decide a state on the basis of an acronym coined by a deranged undergraduate. You decide on the basis of legislation, in this case, legislation by the British Parliament.

The UN never rubbished anything; it accepted India's proposals in toto, but with the disconcerting omission of condemnation of aggression. It went so far as to refuse to accept Pakistan as an automatic member, as a successor state of British India, which was one of the founding members of the UN.

Yes, I do have documents in which Kashmir doesn't belong to Pakistan, and yes, I have shown it to Kashmiris. Most of them had been brought up on the same rubbish that I find many members repeating. What I said and explained came as a revelation to them.

There are lots of issues that you need to learn about. Till then, please don't bother to correct me. It is irritating.

Here is the reality as we stand today

• Kashmir is declared disputed territory between India and Pakistan.
• Fate of Kashmir is to be decided by Kashmirs by undergoing a plebiscite.
• Indian authority over Kashmir is nothing more than facilitating this plebiscite and that too under UN observers.
• As per constitution of India - Kashmir is not part of India. (Reference)
• As per High court of Kashmir - it is illegal to call Kashmir an Atoot Ang. (Reference)
• As per hears and minds of Kashmirs - they are Pakistanis. (Reference)
• As per hearts and minds of Indians - they have given up ownership of Kashmir. You'll find them speechless and out of arguments.

With above learned and understood, bring out your piece of paper and read it and tell yourself how distant from reality you are. You may want to show this document to Indian PM who is out of every option and is preparing for a final fight over Kashmir before it finally loses it.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Looks like expiry date of pakistan has come.
Any future war with India will result in complete annihilation of pakistan.

Yes, we know it and we also know that You won't be able to survive to celebrate that.......

 

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

@Oscar

Brother, I did not wish to offend anyone by starting this discussion and if anything I stated has offended you, then I apologize.

I think this is a healthy discussion and should be allowed to continue. It is always enlightening to read so many diverse views coming not only from fellow countrymen but also from learned and experienced members such as @Sinopakfriend

I advise calm and rationale. Let us all continue discussing what Pakistan's next steps should be in the given scenario.

 

[Pakistan First]

@Oscar,

Please "PIN" this thread for the next few days.

 

[IndusisHindu]

There will be a retaliation by India, thought not instantaneously. So all this jingoistic hype on PDF and dreams of Gazhw-e-Hind will die down before that actually happens in Pakistan. Talking about real politics neither Modi nor his party BJP can afford to be seen as a weak leaders by letting this go without any response. Lets all hope that the loss of innocent lives are restricted to a minimum on both sides in the coming days.