India-Pakistan: Can We Ever Be Friends?

[SarthakGanguly]

So you are kashmiri and you are happy with 600,000 troops stationed permanently in the valley ??

Wow, 600,000? That means only another 500,000 approx defends the rest of India?

 

[American Pakistani]

If you have noticed, I'm not a big fan of all the peace talk. Not because I want war but simply because I believe that Pakistan & India cannot reconcile their positions.

Agreed with the first part...that i' am not a fan of peace because i know unless Kashmir issue is all this peace is only dream. But i won't agree with your second part...Pakistan has proved to be more flexible to solve this issue & for the sake of peace but indians only take that as a sign of Pakistani weakness & proved to be arrogant & egoistic.

In case you haven't noticed, we already have what we want, the status quo suits us just fine.

Well i don't think india has achieve what it wanted to...but anyways if you fell happy then be it.

 

[JayAtl]

You realism is a screen which you think protects your reactionary opinions that is why it is a valuable diversion. Skepticism and cynicism will never get the situation anywhere. I doubt if you even gave a minutes thought to what I wrote. Your knee jerk reactions put you a couple of levels below the threshold for advanced thinking that is a requisite for making things happen. I could tell you why you are wrong, but based on the quantum of your troll posts, I think I would be wasting my time. I'd rather engage someone who could actually be expected to make an effort to understand rather than indulge in reactionary knee jerks.

Cute... in the amount of time you took to personally attack me. you could have told me how my thinking , an established fact(s) I gave you, was not factual.

spare me the gibberish and let us get down to the point. Your countries most objectionable policies towards India is run by your intelligence units and and military.

You cannot win peace when you put a gun to the head of the Indian diaspora in the form of terrorists cough *non state actors*. then again you may choose to write 10 sentences and avoid my facts because it may force cerebral thinking.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Wow, 600,000? That means only another 500,000 approx defends the rest of India?

Humanitarian abuses
Main article: Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir
Some analysts have suggested that the number of Indian troops in Jammu and Kashmir is close to 600,000 although estimates vary and the Indian government refuses to release official figures
Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The number of Indian troops, widely seen as the visible agent of Indian oppression, now stands at nearly 600,000 – a significant increase from 36,000 in 1989 when militancy flared

India weighs troop reduction in quieter Kashmir - CSMonitor.com

 

[American Pakistani]

Wow, 600,000? That means only another 500,000 approx defends the rest of India?

Yes 600,000(some sources even say 700,000). And rest of your troops left are 700,000(not 500,000). The borders india share is mostly with weaker countries like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan & Burma & india has only deployed BSF on those borders. The Chinese border is not so big & not much troops are required plus india has sign non-aggression pact with Chinese...that only left with Pakistan border where bulk of indian troops are deployed.

 

[Bang Galore]

Agreed with the first part...that i' am not a fan of peace because i know unless Kashmir issue is all this peace is only dream. But i won't agree with your second part...Pakistan has proved to be more flexible to solve this issue & for the sake of peace but indians only take that as a sign of Pakistani weakness & proved to be arrogant & egoistic.

No idea of what you see as the second part but if you are suggesting that Pakistan is more flexible, I simply don't agree. Pakistan wants what India simply cannot give. Reducing the extent of asking what India has is not flexibility, it is still a pipe dream. It doesn't matter whether you think of us as arrogant & egoistic (whatever that means), we simply cannot & won't give you what you seek. As I said, the best that can be ever offered is the Musharraf-MMS formula, nothing more.

Well i don't think india has achieve what it wanted to...but anyways if you fell happy then be it.

Yeah, we would like total peace but we will quite easily settle for the status quo as it exists.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Humanitarian abuses
Main article: Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir
Some analysts have suggested that the number of Indian troops in Jammu and Kashmir is close to 600,000 although estimates vary and the Indian government refuses to release official figures
Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The number of Indian troops, widely seen as the visible agent of Indian oppression, now stands at nearly 600,000 – a significant increase from 36,000 in 1989 when militancy flared

India weighs troop reduction in quieter Kashmir - CSMonitor.com

1. "Some analysts" -
2. Check the date - It's 2007 news. In any case - if you send tourists without visa/passport, we need to have a welcoming party for them...won't we?

Yes 600,000(some sources even say 700,000). And rest of your troops left are 700,000(not 500,000). The borders india share is mostly with weaker countries like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan & Burma & india has only deployed BSF on those borders. The Chinese border is not so big & not much troops are required plus india has sign non-aggression pact with Chinese...that only left with Pakistan border where bulk of indian troops are deployed.

Sure if you count the local scouts as well. In any case even in such a militarized state more than 2.1 million tourists came in. Damn, they must be in love with Military paraphernalia.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1. "Some analysts" -
2. Check the date - It's 2007 news. In any case - if you send tourists without visa/passport, we need to have a welcoming party for them...won't we?

You want to say that India has reduced the number of troops in Kashmir after 2007 ??? well , if you are happy ,with your head buried in the ground , so be like that

And you say that you are Kashmiri but you are not even aware of presence of Indian troops there !!! now that is .......

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You want to say that India has reduced the number of troops in Kashmir after 2007 ??? well , if you are happy ,with your head buried in the ground , so be like that

And you say that you are Kashmiri but you are not even aware of presence of Indian troops there !!! now that is .......

Stop sending your tourists and we won't have to see any CRPF. The Army has gone to the barracks.

 

[American Pakistani]

No idea of what you see as the second part but if you are suggesting that Pakistan is more flexible, I simply don't agree. Pakistan wants what India simply cannot give. Reducing the extent of asking what India has is not flexibility, it is still a pipe dream. It doesn't matter whether you think of us as arrogant & egoistic (whatever that means), we simply cannot & won't give you what you seek. As I said, the best that can be ever offered is the Musharraf-MMS formula, nothing more.

Pakistan's flexibility in which it agreed for right of self determination(against claiming the whole territory). Musharraf formula was very much Independence of Kashmir & it still was not accepted by indians...they took a long long time to think & then there were 2007 crises(Red Mosque, Emergency, Supreme Court, etc) in Pakistan which shelved the issue once again.

Sure if you count the local scouts as well. In any case even in such a militarized state more than 2.1 million tourists came in. Damn, they must be in love with Military paraphernalia.

lol @scouts. 2.1 million tourists claim is never verified by any neutral source & just claims by indian govt. Also whatever tourists IOK/Maqbooza Kashmir gets most are indian origin people & mostly going Jammu for that temple on the mountain(i' am forgetting the name).

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan's flexibility in which it agreed for right of self determination(against claiming the whole territory). Musharraf formula was very much Independence of Kashmir & it still was not accepted by indians...they took a long long time to think & then there were 2007 crises(Red Mosque, Emergency, Supreme Court, etc) in Pakistan which shelved the issue once again.

You simply have no realism in your ideas. That Pakistani flexibility is reply-able by citing Indian flexibility allowing you to hold Pakistan administered Kashmir. Essentially meaningless.

You seem to be misinformed of the Musharraf-MMS formula, it was simply about soft borders, greater autonomy & the like. He lost power & the following government as well as your recently retired CoAS walked back from the deal. Now,there are not many Indian takers for the deal either because Indians simply don't see good faith negotiations possible if parts of the Pakistani state simply disassociate themselves(officially or unofficially) with any deal reached. In any case, soft borders are simply not possible given Pakistan's present internal turmoil.

As I said, status quo suits us just fine.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Cute... in the amount of time you took to personally attack me. you could have told me how my thinking , an established fact(s) I gave you, was not factual.

spare me the gibberish and let us get down to the point. Your countries most objectionable policies towards India is run by your intelligence units and and military.

You cannot win peace when you put a gun to the head of the Indian diaspora in the form of terrorists cough *non state actors*. then again you may choose to write 10 sentences and avoid my facts because it may force cerebral thinking.

What you wrote is a no-brainer. It requires no reflection or thinking to understand what you mean. I get it. It is just sad that I am wasting my time on a person whose sole purpose to visit PDF is to troll.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Stop sending your tourists and we won't have to see any CRPF. The Army has gone to the barracks.

The Indians completed fencing on their side of LoC ten years ago . And they claimed that this had reduced the infiltration by 80 % ....

But still there was no reduction in the number of troops in IOK !!! which itself is a proof that the Kashmir Freedom Movement is indigenous !! Stop deceiving yourself

 

[American Pakistani]

You simply have no realism in your ideas. That Pakistani flexibility is reply-able by citing Indian flexibility allowing you to hold Pakistan administered Kashmir. Essentially meaningless.

Pakistan has shown that flexibility for whole Kashmir & not just for IOK/Maqbooza Kashmir... so yes it is meaningful for those who are sincere like Pakistan.

You seem to be misinformed of the Musharraf-MMS formula, it was simply about soft borders, greater autonomy & the like. He lost power & the following government as well as your recently retired CoAS walked back from the deal. Now,there are not many Indian takers for the deal either because Indians simply don't see good faith negotiations possible if parts of the Pakistani state simply disassociate themselves(officially or unofficially) with any deal reached. In any case, soft borders are simply not possible given Pakistan's present internal turmoil.

I know Musharraf formula(MMS had nothing to do with it, it was presented by Musharraf to your govt). Musharraf formula was joint supervision of both Islamabad & New Delhi & complete freedom of Kashmiris with their own govt(like Azad Kashmir has their own PM etc), with drawl of all indian troops from Kashmir. And this deal didn't materialize as indian govt took a long long time to think. It was finalized in 2006(started in 2004) & indian govt who know this deal since 2004 still waste the time to think & then in late 2007 the issue was once again shelved as Pakistan got busy in it's crises of Red Mosque, Emergency, Supreme Court & then Assasination of Bhutto, govt change was in mid 2008.

 

[JayAtl]

What you wrote is a no-brainer. It requires no reflection or thinking to understand what you mean. I get it. It is just sad that I am wasting my time on a person whose sole purpose to visit PDF is to troll.

how is it trolling to discuss the biggest contention from the indian side!

I guess when India says the same thing they are also trolling. go figure.