India Lost Kargil War

[Asian.Century]

Indian Generals !!

 

[kurup]

Indian Generals !!

View attachment 91313

How about this cover-up ??

Pak quietly names 453 men killed in Kargil war - Rediff.com News

 

[posedion]

Hukum
Humara poora naam Kunwar Anurag Pratap Singh Rathore
vansh-Suryavanshi
jodha rathore
hain hum
decedents of his highness sher singh

or aapko nahi lgta jo ye sab aajkal pakistan border pe hamle kar raha hai vo china ke dum pe kar raha hai varna uski itni himmat kahan?

tera poora naam teri pichwadi pe rak

Kargil lost Kashmir forever for Pak
US and world recognized LOC as border
full stop...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Asian.Century]

India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

* Indian general says what his country gained from war has not been consolidated

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: An Indian general, who commanded troops during 1999 Kargil war, on Sunday broke his 11-year silence to say that India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

Lieutenant-General (r) Kishan Pal, the then head of Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told a private channel that he did not speak because he was never convinced about this war.

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories, but lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily,” he said, when was asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later.

Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh. An armed forces tribunal has indicted Pal for showing bias against Brigadier Singh; former 70 infantry brigade commander, and belittled his achievements in the war besides falsifying accounts of battles during the Kargil operations.

Meanwhile, a Chandigarh-based former army major has also come out with a revelation that his inputs on Kargil ‘intrusion’, sent to his seniors as early as January-February 1999, were ignored and he was asked to stop sending such reports in writing.

Major Manish Bhatnagar, who participated in the Kargil war, said not only were his inputs ignored, later, when a full-scale conflict broke out, he was court martialled on another pretext and made to leave the army.

He said he had informed his senior officers about the heavy presence of hostile forces and had also apprised them of the large number of bunkers and occupation of vital points by them during his posting. “Later, when the strength of ‘intruders’ was found to be more than the perceptions of the top generals — resulting in mass causalities of soldiers — officers like me were persecuted to hide their wrongs,’” Bhatnagar said.

Source: India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

 

[SarthakGanguly]

peak 5353 (Tiger hill)

Read Pervez Musharaf's account.
That should satisfy your urge for knowledge.

Point 5353 is not Tiger Hill.

Or

India lost all wars with Pakistan.

 

[longewala]

1948: India loses war, Pakistani raiders driven back to loc
1965: India loses war, Pakistan begs for truce as their enormous American supplied weaponry runs out of ammo and their armour gers thrashed at khem kharan
1971: India loses war, bombs karachi, liberates Bangladesh
1999: India loses war, reclaims the posts occupied by thereby by deceit, gives the pakistani invaders a bloody nose as they leave behind hundreds of unclaimed dead bodies
October 2014: another defeat for India looming

 

[Asian.Century]

^^When has India ever won?, India lost in 1947 to Pakistan, broken in many pieces, lost most of Kashmir, India again Lost in 1962 against China, India lost in the Soviet-Afghan Jihad when it was supporting Soviet Russia, India lost badly in 1965 against Pakistan, India lost again to rejoin Bangladesh in 1971, India lost in 1999 kargil war, India was sorely defeated in Srilanka against Pakistan, when it was supporting tamil tigers, India lost hope in 2003 and even in 2008 stand off...India loosing is something a normal cause now !!!!

 

[Kloitra]

^^When has India ever won?, India lost in 1947 to Pakistan, broken in many pieces, lost most of Kashmir, India again Lost in 1962 against China, India lost in the Soviet-Afghan Jihad when it was supporting Soviet Russia, India lost badly in 1965 against Pakistan, India lost again to rejoin Bangladesh in 1971, India lost in 1999 kargil war, India was sorely defeated in Srilanka against Pakistan, when it was supporting tamil tigers, India lost hope in 2003 and even in 2008 stand off...India loosing is something a normal cause now !!!!

We are very content by all our 'loses' against Pakistan. May god bless us with many more such 'loses'.

India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

* Indian general says what his country gained from war has not been consolidated

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: An Indian general, who commanded troops during 1999 Kargil war, on Sunday broke his 11-year silence to say that India actually lost the war in strategic terms.

Lieutenant-General (r) Kishan Pal, the then head of Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told a private channel that he did not speak because he was never convinced about this war.

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories, but lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily,” he said, when was asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later.

Gen Pal was recently in a controversy involving the battle performance report of one of his juniors, Brigadier Devinder Singh. An armed forces tribunal has indicted Pal for showing bias against Brigadier Singh; former 70 infantry brigade commander, and belittled his achievements in the war besides falsifying accounts of battles during the Kargil operations.

Meanwhile, a Chandigarh-based former army major has also come out with a revelation that his inputs on Kargil ‘intrusion’, sent to his seniors as early as January-February 1999, were ignored and he was asked to stop sending such reports in writing.

Major Manish Bhatnagar, who participated in the Kargil war, said not only were his inputs ignored, later, when a full-scale conflict broke out, he was court martialled on another pretext and made to leave the army.

He said he had informed his senior officers about the heavy presence of hostile forces and had also apprised them of the large number of bunkers and occupation of vital points by them during his posting. “Later, when the strength of ‘intruders’ was found to be more than the perceptions of the top generals — resulting in mass causalities of soldiers — officers like me were persecuted to hide their wrongs,’” Bhatnagar said.

Source: India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

Read again:

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained the territories, but lost 587 precious lives. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically. It has not been consolidated militarily,” he said, when was asked for his assessment of the conflict 11 years later.

It is a matter of standards. He considered it a loss because of the lives lost.
Pakistan consider 65' a win, cause although it wasn't able to finish Operation Gibraltar, it successfully defended home turf in a war started to get more boundaries (with international aid).

May god bless you with 1000 more such victories!

 

[oFFbEAT]

Aul later tried to use these two heights to bring about a territorial exchange. In mid-August 1999, his efforts bore fruit, and both sides committed themselves to leave Points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied. Indian and Pakistani troops pulled back to their pre-Kargil position as part of a larger agreement between their respective DGMOs. In October that year, however, the deal broke down. Aul tasked the 16 Grenadiers to take Point 5240 and the 1/3 Gorkha Rifles to occupy Point 5353, choosing to vio late the August agreement rather than risk a Pakistani reoccupation of these positions. The operation was mishandled, and when the Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 5240, they promptly launched a counter-assault on Point 5353.

What I understand is that, point 5353 lies along the LOC(slightly on the Indian side) and hence was supposed to be left vacant by both sides but Pakistan occupies it........apparently it looks worrisome but IF India occupies points 4251 and 4875 which are on the Pakistani side and were also supposed to be left vacant, then I guess India is the ultimate gainer......
So, the question is, Does India occupy points 4251 and 4875??......

The Hindu : National : Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

 

[Asian.Century]

Indeed India lost Kargil, just like 1965, 1947, Sri Lankan LTTE support, and Soviet-Russia War.

 

[nForce]

Indeed India lost Kargil, just like 1965, 1947, Sri Lankan LTTE support, and Soviet-Russia War.

And yet :
1. Kargil still remains to be under Indian control, while Musharraf lives in exile.
2. Kashmir still remains in Indian control, instead of Pakistan's attempt in 1947 and 1965.
3. Srilanka has greater degree of trade and cooperation with India than Pakistan. Wonder how we did that ?
4. You live in half the country of what you started with.
5. Soviet-Russia war ?

Sorry, people judge actions by their results

 

[Asian.Century]

And yet :
1. Kargil still remains to be under Indian control, while Musharraf lives in exile.
2. Kashmir still remains in Indian control, instead of Pakistan's attempt in 1947 and 1965.
3. Srilanka has greater degree of trade and cooperation with India than Pakistan. Wonder how we did that ?
4. You live in half the country of what you started with.
5. Soviet-Russia war ?

Sorry, people judge actions by their results

1. Kargil, most of the hills and peaks are still under Pakistan, Two IAF jets destroyed, thousands Indian soldiers dead. your own Generals keep calling, India never won Kargil War.

2. Kashmir, half of Kashmir is in Pakistan, infact Azad Kashmir is flourishing compared to IOK. You are talking as if the remaining Kashmir is a settled issue, it has LOC, a disputed territory. Do you understand what tat means?

3. If it was for India, with Tamil Hindu support, Srilanka would have been an Indian colony, sorry to bust it, Pakistani support busted that Tamil Hindu Expansionist plans. Trade is two ways, excellent from Pakistani percespective and its support to Sinhalese Govt in Sri Lanka....just like we donot stop India from having trade, investment and business in Afghanistan, we have no issues with India-Srilanka, but the Hindu Tamil Srilanka and a colony of India is finished, no more....thanks to Pakistan Military support.

4. Actually you live in 3 times half the country you lived before 1947, infact its a shame at you and your defeats, Muslims got two Countries + half Afghanistan out of one Akhund Indian subcontinent , LOLz.

Oh, Is Bangladesh part of India, 1971 war. Lolz.

5. Afghan-Soviet war 1980s, where India supported Russia and Northern Alliance Tajiks, against Pasthuns, Taliban, Pakistan, ISI, oh Soviet got ripped apart, and India back into its usual hole. who won that puppy....


Just because Pakistanis generally stay quiet and enjoy the fun in silence of the mockery Indians make abt themselves, doesn't mean India a backward, defeated country can claim victories on lies. The truth hurts.

 

[Asian.Century]

Kargil episode: Clinton promised Nawaz to help restore Pak-India dialogue, excerpts from book

NEW DELHI: The then US president Bill Clinton had warned former prime minister Nawaz Sharif of the dangers of a war with India amid the Kargil crisis, claims Srinath Raghavan in his book ‘The Most Dangerous Place’.

The book details the history of US involvement in South Asia, discussing its engagement with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It looks at how the US has been a crucial player in regional affairs even as South Asia experienced tumultuous changes, says foreign media.

According to the author, “On 3 July [1998], as Sharif flew to Washington, American intelligence found evidence that the Pakistanis were preparing the nuclear arsenal for possible deployment. Clinton’s officials, Talbot recalled, had ‘a sense of vast and unprecedented peril’. Memories of the Cuban Missile Crisis came flooding back. Ahead of the meeting with Sharif, National Security Advisor Sandy Berger told the President that the objective was not only to induce a Pakistani withdrawal but also to help Sharif stay on in power. The fact that the prime minister was coming to Washington with his family suggested that he was unsure of his position at home. Talbot added that Clinton must also bear in mind Indian sensitivities. The United States seemed poised to clear decades of mistrust in India about American attitude towards Pakistan.”

“In their meeting on 4 July, Clinton emphasized that a Pakistani withdrawal could not be linked to an American diplomatic intervention in Kashmir. Sharif insisted that Pakistan would withdraw its forces provided India committed to settling Kashmir within a specific time frame. ‘If I were the Indian prime minister,’ Clinton shot back, ‘I’d never do that.’ In any case, he was unwilling to go down this route. The President warned Sharif of the dangers of sleepwalking into a major war: ‘I genuinely believe you could get into a nuclear war by accident.’ In their one-on-one session, Clinton brought up the Pakistani moves to prepare nuclear-armed missiles for deployment and warned that it could lead to catastrophe. Eventually, Clinton persuaded Sharif to issue a statement on restoring the status quo on the LoC. At Sharif’s insistence, Clinton agreed to add a line that once the sanctity of the LoC had been restored, he would take a personal interest in encouraging a speedy resumption of the dialogue agreed to in Lahore,” reads the book.

“By 26 July, the last of the Pakistani intruders had pulled back behind the LoC. Although Clinton was sincere in his assurance to Sharif, he was unable to deliver on his commitment. In October 1999, following a gauche attempt at forestalling a coup, Sharif was deposed by General Musharraf. US-Pakistan relations sank to a new low. So frayed were their ties that the following year Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat offered to Musharraf to intercede on his behalf with Clinton,” the writer adds.