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India joins elite missile tech club today

ok saaen ji i will report but i dint do any kind of trolling but have made a note and will take actions just need your support thanks :tup:
You have all the support and i have also done nothing else but told you, AGAIN, the right way to handle such posts.

It is over a dozen or so times that i have done that already so pardon me if i don't buy your "I am not here to troll" or "I am here to learn" crap as anyone interested in any of these two would have known better. :-)
 
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If that was the logic China should not have joined NSG either as they already had a nuclear market in Pakistan. But the fact was China made many commitments to the then NSG members including that it would not sell any further nuclear reactors to Pakistan other than the grandfathered ones. Its a different matter that China reneged those promises once it joined NSG by selling additional nuclear reactors to Pakistan in complete violation of the commitments it gave to NSG.

Absolute rubbish.

All Nuclear Power Plants that are being built with the assistance of China had been signed before China became a member of NSG. This is the absolute reason that no NSG related sanctions could ever be applied to China.

Now the FIRST task should be to TEST BRAHMOS for its full range

You can't.......and the beauty of MTCR is that now you can never test its full range.

Pakistan's savior Turkey didn't veto India's bid in MTCR. Strange.

It is simply because Indian membership there has no effect on Pakistan whatsoever. NSG is an altogether different matter.

Since you are yourself confessing that NSG is the real deal. How about the fact that India already has the NSG waiver and can trade in nuclear technology and even dual use enrichment technology with any country bilaterally. Its just that we cant export. Also where were your allies when we got the NSG waiver in 2008. So to conclude we got the real deal except for the title of official nuclear weapon state and you got nothing.

Yes, and that makes us wonder why your Government applied for NSG at all. Perhaps it felt that GoP was weak and now was the time to get into NSG once and for all. Although you are enjoying all the benefits of NSG, due to US sanctioned waivers, you are unable to join NSG and thus unable to block Pakistan's entry in the future.

And you are never getting into NSG............unless Pakistan is admitted at the same time!
 
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Absolute rubbish.

All Nuclear Power Plants that are being built with the assistance of China had been signed before China became a member of NSG. This is the absolute reason that no NSG related sanctions could ever be applied to China.



You can't.......and the beauty of MTCR is that now you can never test its full range.



It is simply because Indian membership there has no effect on Pakistan whatsoever. NSG is an altogether different matter.
well sir your wrong we can now test and or say de classify actual range of all our missiles which we could not have or the develpoed nations would have ended there technikal coopration with us but now after india bieng a member state we can do that openly and those very same developed nations can now help us openly and even sell there best tactical and daul use technologies and weapons to us

as for NSG we already have wiaver to by latest civil and daul use nuclear tech and already doing buisness with most advanced only perk we wanted with NSG was we would have been able to export owr nuclear techs and NSG was the last hurdle before UNSC seat now its dragged to couple of years but with full US and its allies backing we will gain it sooner than later

as for pakistan getting into NSG well accept china or maybe turkey no other meber nation gonna support your candidature to NSG member ship as world has not forgotten and we will now make sure no one does the A Q Khan episode and how we shipped nuclear material to libiya , iran and north korea through say "courier" :sarcastic: but anyway good luck with it :tup:
 
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Yes, and that makes us wonder why your Government applied for NSG at all. Perhaps it felt that GoP was weak and now was the time to get into NSG once and for all. Although you are enjoying all the benefits of NSG, due to US sanctioned waivers

Economics .

The wider vendor base you have , the better rates one can get.

How difficult is it to get this ? This is the 1st principle of Supply Chain management.

Play one vendor against the other - if not better rates , you can get better payment terms.
 
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Absolute rubbish.

All Nuclear Power Plants that are being built with the assistance of China had been signed before China became a member of NSG. This is the absolute reason that no NSG related sanctions could ever be applied to China.


Read below highlighted text.


Moving forward on China, Pakistan, and the NSG
by Mark Hibbs | June 23, 2011 | 32 Comments


Just a couple of weeks after I joined the Carnegie Endowment at the beginning of March last year, I found myself in a musty agricultural exhibition hall in east Beijing, across Dongsanhuan Beilu from the Sanlitun diplo quarter. In the corner of one wing of that Mao-flavoured building, an engineering subsidiary of China’s leading nuclear state-owned enterprise, China National Nuclear Corp, displayed on a panel all the nuclear facility construction projects it had on its plate through 2015.

One of these listed projects was construction of two new PWRs at the Chashma site in Pakistan. That was interesting because until then there had been only rumors and unconfirmed assertions by officials in Islamabad that this deal was in the bag. Here in a drafty corner of a Chinese nuclear industry exhibition, where bussed-in Chinese reactor engineers took their furtive cigarette breaks, we had something in black and white which looked like an official Chinese confirmation that CNNC was in fact about to build more power reactors in Pakistan.

During the rest of 2010 I raised this issue in a modest spate of articles and media interventions, before, during, and after the Nuclear Suppliers Group held its annual meeting, in Christchurch last June. Carnegie flagged this because, of course, in 2008, the U.S. persuaded the NSG to award India an exemption to its nuclear trade sanctions, which were in fact triggered by India’s post-1968 nuclear explosive test and subsequent absence of full-scope safeguards on all its nuclear activities. By 2010, China, which had acquiesced at the NSG to the US request for the India exemption—while making known to the group it favored this to happen on the principle of “non-discrimination”—had joined the US, Russia, and France in preparing to export nuclear reactors to non-NPT states on behalf of its ally Pakistan.

The problem at hand was, however, that under NSG guidelines which China pledged to adhere to when it joined the group in 2004, China agreed not to export nuclear reactors to Pakistan. Before China joined the NSG, it signed contracts to set up two PWRs at Pakistan’s Chashma site, as provided by a pre-NSG Sino-Pak cooperation agreement. According to people who were on hand when China joined the NSG in 2004, Beijing then even spelled out to NSG participating governments that it had no intention to sell any more power reactors to Pakistan beyond Chashma-1 and -2, and that China enumerated what was on its list of goods that it had committed itself to export to Pakistan under that old trade agreement.

The NSG’s other 45 members last year did not have a common response to China’s resolve in exporting two more reactors to Pakistan. During the 2010 NSG plenary meeting, a number of states—including the U.S.—requested clarification from China about its intentions. Chinese officials provided only vague assurances that all current and future Chinese exports would follow NSG guidelines—suggesting to many at the meeting that China tacitly implied that the new exports to Pakistan were “grandfathered” under the old trade deal. Last spring, the US Department of State spelled out it would certainly take issue with that version of events.

It’s now a year later. The NSG this week is meeting again, in Noordwijk, and that meeting is set to conclude on Friday, June 24.

In the meantime, Pakistan has continued beating the drum that it should be accorded nuclear trade rights on par with India’s, China and Pakistan have been going forward in preparing to build the reactors (Pakistan officials told me in Islamabad a couple of months ago that they were beginning civil construction for the foundation of Chashma-3) and the NSG braced for another testy tete-a-tete with China during its forthcoming annual closed-door conclave.

At Carnegie, we were working on this.

Yesterday, Toby Dalton, I, and George Perkovich published this Policy Outlook on our website in an effort to focus international attention on the Sino-Pak-NSG conundrum.

We have been watching what is happening in China and elsewhere in response to Fukushima. We think there is an opportunity for China, Pakistan, and the NSG to rethink this issue.

The politically correct status quo course of inaction—which appears to be veering toward a don’t-ask-don’t-tell policy of tacitly accepting Chinese grandfathering of its trade with Pakistan—won’t work. It will further erode the NSG’s credibility in the shadow of the US-India deal. It will permit China and Pakistan to brush off NSG rules. Pakistan would get old reactors from China which won’t seriously address its real-time energy deficit, and won’t comply with safety standards which after Fukushima the world will demand for new nuclear projects.

Instead, moving forward on the basis of what we propose for NSG to think about would give the NSG, Pakistan, and China an opportunity. The NSG can establish criteria and a roadmap for other countries without full-scope safeguards to qualify for civilian nuclear cooperation; it can put the group in the position of raising the nonproliferation bar for future NSG membership; and it can incentivize China and Pakistan to make their nuclear trade legitimate in an NSG process acceptable to all NSG members.

We’re not naïve. We know there will be fierce opposition to this from those who will argue that the NPT—and its 1968 nuclear test cut-off date—is set in stone. But the alternative to what we propose is that China and Pakistan will proceed without conditions. To them, the US-India deal was a game changer.

More broadly, India, Israel, and Pakistan are nuclear-armed states. These are facts on the ground. The next step for India would be full membership. The Obama administration is advocating this. Many NSG states—more than the number which resisted the US-India deal from 2005-2008—are not prepared to roll over. They can now set the crossbar for future membership. While the approach we recommend for China and Pakistan is about nuclear cooperation, not NSG membership, there could be a carryover. In either case, NPT states outside the NSG should also be brought into this process to understand that a criteria-based approach can result in a modern and robust benchmark which will provide the world greater security against the threat of nuclear weapons proliferation.


http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1100228/moving-forward-on-china-pakistan-and-the-nsg/
 
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NEW DELHI
I think China will never allow to become a member of NSG for obvious reason, fear of competition. I think its time for the world to come out with somethin! Mexico supported by others called for another NSG meet to discuss India's entry and China opposes to that as well. What a insecurity! lol China will never be able to become part of MTCR. Thanks to widespread proliferation to Pakistan and NK.

Not just that .
India will now return the favour to china in MCTR group. China's application was rejected in 2004, for i dont know why.
Now they wont think of applying again knowing that now india is in the group to veto it.

So all this boils down to give and take. India needs NSG, while china needs MCTR. Both will either need to support each other or deprive each other for ever While we already enjoy waiver, we are not loosing on time now, we can wait for china to blink.

And some idiots who were expecting some deals in return for chinese votes, well they will be making fools out of themselves.
 
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You have been trying to enter the same club since 2004 but with no sucess and we succeed in the second attempt
who told you that? in your dream? we are proud to be excluded from any west-manipulated clubs, and in today's world, any club will become meaningless without involvement of China. Like G7. So we can join NSG even west viewed us break its rules.

Now we only focus on one thing, which is this
252439997.jpg
 
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who told you that? in your dream? we are proud to be excluded from any west-manipulated clubs, and in today's world, any club will become meaningless without involvement of China. Like G7. So we can join NSG even west viewed us break its rules.

Now we only focus on one thing, which is this
View attachment 314093


No it will be china alone surrounded by Korea, japan, philipines, vietnam, India, US, and all others. :D
 
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Now the FIRST task should be to TEST BRAHMOS for its full range
really? full range being 600km do you think the mtcr woulds allow india to build such a missile with such a range. also would even give you the tech to allow the missile reach it true range
 
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well sir your wrong we can now test and or say de classify actual range of all our missiles which we could not have or the develpoed nations would have ended there technikal coopration with us but now after india bieng a member state we can do that openly and those very same developed nations can now help us openly and even sell there best tactical and daul use technologies and weapons to us

as for NSG we already have wiaver to by latest civil and daul use nuclear tech and already doing buisness with most advanced only perk we wanted with NSG was we would have been able to export owr nuclear techs and NSG was the last hurdle before UNSC seat now its dragged to couple of years but with full US and its allies backing we will gain it sooner than later

as for pakistan getting into NSG well accept china or maybe turkey no other meber nation gonna support your candidature to NSG member ship as world has not forgotten and we will now make sure no one does the A Q Khan episode and how we shipped nuclear material to libiya , iran and north korea through say "courier" :sarcastic: but anyway good luck with it :tup:

First of all, let me state once again that NO, you cannot test any additional range of Brahmos or any other missile that has been co-produced. You can repaint it as a new indigenous missile. However, you cannot just say that Brahmos has a larger range but we lied to the world until we signed MTCR.

Secondly, there are many member states that support Pakistan's inclusion in NSG including Russia. And since we were not a signatory to NSG, there was no binding on us not to proliferate nuclear technology. However, it is in the interest of the world that Pakistan becomes a member of NSG as then it cannot transfer any Nuclear related technology to any interested state.........and there are many states that would love Nuclear Technology.
 
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really? full range being 600km do you think the mtcr woulds allow india to build such a missile with such a range. also would even give you the tech to allow the missile reach it true range
no sir bhramos full range or say classified range is around 200-225 miles with a 300 Kg warhead which will increase to 250-275 miles with a 200Kg warhead so i guess MTCR members states wont have any problem with
 
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Read below highlighted text.

And just as I had said before, and following China's stance, the new Nuclear plants were a part of the pact that China and Pakistan signed before China's entry into NSG and so China has to provide Pakistan with the new power plants.
 
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First of all, let me state once again that NO, you cannot test any additional range of Brahmos or any other missile that has been co-produced. You can repaint it as a new indigenous missile. However, you cannot just say that Brahmos has a larger range but we lied to the world until we signed MTCR.

Secondly, there are many member states that support Pakistan's inclusion in NSG including Russia. And since we were not a signatory to NSG, there was no binding on us not to proliferate nuclear technology. However, it is in the interest of the world that Pakistan becomes a member of NSG as then it cannot transfer any Nuclear related technology to any interested state.........and there are many states that would love Nuclear Technology.
ok even if agree what you said in the first part who gonna stop us developing a new range of missiles on owr existing weapons or buying the better ones from USA , France , Israel , Russia :azn:
 
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