India, Iran to resume talks on gas pipeline through Pak

[ejaz007]

I think its you who has an understanding issue. When an exporter sends goods to an importing country then the exporter can be responsible for safe delivery at the port of receipt. When Bangladesh exports garments to USA, they are responsible till the time the goods reach the US shores irrespective of the number of countries it passes thru. same applies here..

No my dear I am quite clear. Let me explain a bit. Iran shall sell gas to Pakistan and India. Custody transfer shall be at the border with Pakistan. As per agreement that shall be signed Pakistan and India shall have their share of the gas. Suppose Iran sells 100 mmscfd gas and Pakistan's share is 25 mmscfd. What shall happen is we shall keep our share and let India's share flow through the line to border where India shall take delivery of the gas.

Incase for any reason gas supply to India has to be stopped than Pakistan shall inform both Iran and India in advance and in writing and give the exact reason. The reason being that a procedure is mentioned in the agreement signed between the parties and it has to be followed.

Alse penalties are also imposed in the agreement and violators have to pay these penalties.

Hope it clears every thing.

 

[ejaz007]

Guaranty has been issued by Pak Govt, and I have no doubt on their good intentions. But who's stopping non-state actors to meddle? Think about this, shiny pipeline is stretched on Pakistan's wild wild west, who's stopping some Balooch warlord to blow up the pipe line because some other warlord killed two of clan members!

I have already answered this question in the thread. Pipeline shall not be on the surface and proper safeguards are placed to protect the lines.

Also this line shall not be passing through the areas affected by security concerns.

 

[ejaz007]

Price of gas in India

Price of gas from KG Basin - 4.2$mmBtu

From Qatar (until 2009) - 2.53$
(currently) - 7$
(expects) - 10$

US Natural gas futures - 4$


With the current oil prices, does anyone have any idea what the price of the gas supplied from Iran to Pakistan will be? Have tried searching over the net, but could not get the required info.

The last time I checked it was 86% of the price of crude in international market.

 

[ejaz007]

YOU Have failed to understand by point



Let Iran pay for Any gas lost in Pakistan , if lost. Becuase it will still be their gas flowing though PAk.

India should not pay for Gas coming into Pakistan , but only gas coming into India.

What's wrong with that.

If moving this gas through Pakistan is safe , then Iran does not have anything to be concerned about , when it crosses the PAk border the GAs is still owned by Iran till it reaches the India border.

The fact that Iran does nto want to agree to this , is acknowledgement from Iran that they themselves find moving the gas through Pak too risky.

Otherwise why would they have any problem being financially liable for any losses in Pakistan.

There seems to be some confusion as to the payment. Let me try to clarify that.

The ownership of the gas shall transfer from Iran to Pakistan at the Iran Pakistan border and than to India at India Pakistan border.

Now what happens is that India does not pay for the gas entering Pakistan but for the gas entering India. Custody transfer meters are installed at mutually agreed places between the parties involved and payments are made based on the reading of these meters. I am sure that India shall ask for their meter to be installed at India Pakistan border and not some where else so that they can keep watch on it. If my assuption is true which is normally the case in this industry than you see Indian officials can check the meter any time they wish and also electronic data monitoring is carrid out by all the parties concerned. So my friend most of your fears are imaginary rather than real.

I hope this clears up the matter.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan with 180 million people is a big market for natural gas from Iran. We neither need nor desire any Indian participation in this project. Pakistan should invest in extending already existing Sui gas network to more towns and villages. This natural gas help Pakistan to save forests as people in villages switch from firewood to gas.

We have gas shortage and can not provide gas to entire country. That is why gas load management is carried out in the winter.

Participation of India in the project shall lower the cost of the other two countries and make project more feasible. Also Pakistan shall earn substantial royalty every year.

 

[Tshering22]

You don't need gas just for generating power. Your own gas fields are depleting and it is natural. Hopefully new ones shall come on production. However if your oil and gas development does not match the growth than you have a problem.

What shall you use in the kitchen, in the vehicles and industry. I am sure you are not thinking about providing a nuclear reactor to every household.

You didn't understand. In India, gas is also used for generating electircity and is an important resource which is mainly used for the same purpose seconded by supply to household.

we are already having gas supply plans from Russia and central Asia through Iran. Take a look at the following map:

Here you would see that we have the chance of entering into multiple agreements with gulf states to bypass Pakistani waters, mainly Oman. Can you tell me the extent of your territorial waters except those that hug your coastline? Your territorial waters only extent from the state of Balochistan to Karachi port hugging the shoreline and extending 200 nautical miles.

We might have to spend extra on a longer pipeline but then at least it would be the responsibility of more reliable assurances rather than us having to worry about a chokehold all the time.

 

[ejaz007]

You didn't understand. In India, gas is also used for generating electircity and is an important resource which is mainly used for the same purpose seconded by supply to household.

we are already having gas supply plans from Russia and central Asia through Iran. Take a look at the following map:

Here you would see that we have the chance of entering into multiple agreements with gulf states to bypass Pakistani waters, mainly Oman. Can you tell me the extent of your territorial waters except those that hug your coastline? Your territorial waters only extent from the state of Balochistan to Karachi port hugging the shoreline and extending 200 nautical miles.

We might have to spend extra on a longer pipeline but then at least it would be the responsibility of more reliable assurances rather than us having to worry about a chokehold all the time.

If you wish to some how avoid Pakistan's EEZ than the project cost shall increase substantially and project might not be feasible.

Also please note that Pakistan has filed a case in the UN for the increase of its EEZ by another 150 NM. This if accepted should increase our EEZ and your efforts to avoid it more expensive. Here is the link to the news:

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan?s sea limits set to be extended

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

If you wish to some how avoid Pakistan's EEZ than the project cost shall increase substantially and project might not be feasible.

Also please note that Pakistan has filed a case in the UN for the increase of its EEZ by another 150 NM. This if accepted should increase our EEZ and your efforts to avoid it more expensive. Here is the link to the news:

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan?s sea limits set to be extended

Why do we need to avoid your EEZ at all??..as I provided you with UNCLOS annex..EEZ are not a country's territorial waters..you have no rights over it except fishing , oil drilling etc

Another eg for above situation is ..

as the law say other countries can use a country's EEZ for "ships navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea"

so you can not charging transit fee for pipeline ,or ships eg Many of ships transit or aircraft overfly Pakistan's EEZ every day..quote me a single incidence, where pakistan has been able to charge transit fee to any of these ships ever.

Even through territorial water Pakistan can not charge transit fee..as
there exist a Right to innocent Passage..just like pakistan can not charge transit fee, for overflights and transiting ships through territorial waters..however the difference b/w territorial waters and EEZ is, Pakistan can stop any activity taking place in it territorial sea..if it thinks such activity is detrimental to it security and can prove it in court of law..but such is not a case for EEZ.

But your territorial sea is only 12NM ...so we can easily avoid it.

In overland pipeline passage, transit fee is paid ..because host country is responsible for saftey and security of the pipeline..such is not possible for undersea pipeline.

 

[amit27]

The world's largest democracy may have an eye on Burma's energy reserves


There are other short term opportunities instead of the Iran pipeline that India can pursue.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-rolls-out-red-carpet-for-its-pariah-friend-than-shwe-2030363.html

 

[Ras]

If you wish to some how avoid Pakistan's EEZ than the project cost shall increase substantially and project might not be feasible.

Also please note that Pakistan has filed a case in the UN for the increase of its EEZ by another 150 NM. This if accepted should increase our EEZ and your efforts to avoid it more expensive. Here is the link to the news:

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan?s sea limits set to be extended

Pakistan cannot ask for transit fees for cables thro the EEZ.

It is a moot point as the sea route is not feasible in any case.

 

[ejaz007]

I shall check with relevant people if oil and gas pipelines are covered what has been stated above regarding transit fee.

As per my understanding every country has exclusive rights over EEZ and except safe passage both sea and air commercial activities should be liable for transit fees or what ever term is used.

 

[Ras]

I shall check with relevant people if oil and gas pipelines are covered what has been stated above regarding transit fee.

As per my understanding every country has exclusive rights over EEZ and except safe passage both sea and air commercial activities should be liable for transit fees or what ever term is used.

Countries only have exclusive "economic right" over the EEZ. They cannot even prevent foreign military vessels from operating or passing through those waters...ie they do not have sovereignty over the waters in the EEZ.

 

[Hutchroy]

I shall check with relevant people if oil and gas pipelines are covered what has been stated above regarding transit fee.

As per my understanding every country has exclusive rights over EEZ and except safe passage both sea and air commercial activities should be liable for transit fees or what ever term is used.

Pipe Lines traversing EEZ are treated on par with Ships and Aicraft.

Read "UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA"

 

[GUNNER]

India Still Pursuing Iran Pipeline

NEW DELHI, Aug 17, 2010 - Energy-hungry India said Tuesday it was still hoping to import natural gas from Iran through a much-delayed pipeline, but said contentious issues such as pricing must be resolved.

The long-stalled 7.5-billion-dollar transnational gas pipeline, dubbed the "peace pipeline", was supposed to carry gas from Iran, which has the world's second-richest gas reserves after Russia, to Pakistan and then India.

But India has hesitated to join the project because of repeated disputes about prices and transit fees and its volatile relationship with Pakistan.

"We are making all efforts. The project is not sidelined," junior petroleum and natural gas minister Jitin Prasada told parliament.

"Three nations are involved and many technical aspects are being discussed," Prasada said.

"Till we get assurances about issues like pricing of gas, delivery point of gas, project structure, payment of transportation tariff and transit fees for passage of natural gas through Pakistan, talks will continue."

Earlier this year, Islamabad signed a deal with Tehran paving the way for building the pipeline, which would link Iran's South Fars gas field with Pakistan's southern Baluchistan and Sindh provinces.

Washington, which has spearheaded sanctions against Iran over its nuclear programme, has pressured India and Pakistan to hold off signing any pipeline deal.

"We are not relying on Iran alone and are talking to other nations also. We have a (supply) agreement for 25 years with Qatar," Prasada said.

 

[True Lies]

Best if Iran does not respond because India due to US pressure dragged this project for far too long.

India was offered a good deal and many chances of negotiations to no avail.

As per my understanding, it still is a good deal. But of trust deficit(mainly due to water issue), India thinks Pakistan could stop gas supply or something and that's the reason they are asking anyone to take responsibility.

Note: This is just Indian point of view.