India, Iran to resume talks on gas pipeline through Pak

[mohd497]

I say kick india out the delay of two years is too much we dont want any more delays put in china if that is somehow possible.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

iran and pak must not stop the project and wait for india. india is far too complicated and political. they might only be showin interest to play chess with US. but if they r really interested then gud for pak. we ll be gettin transit fee

agreed....

actually it would be a big bonus if we replace hindostan with China; though easier said than done due to geographic/logistical realities

 

[EjazR]

FT.com / Asia-Pacific / Pakistan - Pakistan urges India to join Iran gas network

Pakistan on Tuesday exhorted India to push ahead with talks with Iran to agree a controversial pipeline that would supply Iranian gas to the two south Asian countries.

Pakistan and India have held talks with Tehran to buy natural gas through a proposed $7.6bn pipeline to help alleviate severe power shortages. But the plan has been opposed by the US, which is seeking to apply international pressure on Iran to abandon a suspected nuclear arms programme, and was set back by the terror strike on Mumbai in 2008 by Pakistani militants.

Shahid Malik, Islamabad’s top diplomat to Delhi, said Pakistan would welcome India joining the so-called “peace pipeline”. Businesspeople in the region view the proposed energy partnership as a major step towards ending the enmity that has prevailed between the two neighbours since the end of the British rule 63 years ago.

“We have signed an agreement with Iran, and we would welcome India’s participation if it wants to [do the same],” Mr Malik said at a rare Indo-Pakistan business meeting in Delhi.

The envoy’s comments came as SM Krishna, India’s foreign minister, held talks with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s president, about bilateral cooperation and regional stability. Bilateral trade currently stands at $14bn a year. The comments also follow a positive meeting between Manmohan Singh, India’s prime minister, and his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani, earlier this month. The talks paved the way for visits to Pakistan by Palaniappan Chidambaram, India’s home minister, and Mr Krishna.

The ambitious pipeline project, which aims to feed the growing energy needs of India’s fast growing economy, has made slow progress due to political tensions between India and Pakistan and differences between New Delhi and Tehran over the latter's controversial nuclear programme. There has also been disagreement over gas pricing and delivery.

One senior Indian official said that Mr Singh had offered informally to act as a mediator between Tehran and the White House last year, but that Tehran had not shown any interest in his overture.

Pakistan signed agreements last month with Iran to implement the pipeline project. It has offered since to guarantee the safety of gas supply to India and proposed that India take an equity stake in the section of the pipeline that runs through its territory.

Lower cost transit trade between Asia’s third largest economy and central Asia is highly prized by New Delhi. Pranab Mukherjee, India’s finance minister, on Tuesday appealed to Islamabad to allow Indian trade to transit its territory to help with the reconstruction of Afghanistan. Mr Malik said this proposal was under discussion in Islamabad.

Many Indian businesspeople believe Pakistan’s security woes make their assets prey to terror attack. Narayana Murthy, the founder of Infosys, the IT outsourcing company, cautioned that the threat of violence had to be removed before India and Pakistan could embark on investment-led trade.

“Unless leaders of the two countries come together and create the basic infrastructure, for travel, communication, safety, confidence in the environment, I don’t think businesses can step up [to the challenge],” he said.

“We have an enormous opportunity today because we have [an Indian] prime minister who believes in harmony and stability. This is the best time to build the infrastructure that business needs.”

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i've said it before and i'll say it again.....


''forget indian''

lets just do the smart thing; shrug our shoulders casually and move on

 

[EjazR]

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Business | GAIL seeks Iran legal shield

New Delhi, July 18: India’s bid to start talks on the Iran gas pipeline project can fall foul of UN resolutions against the West Asian country. This has prompted GAIL, which is a partner in the project, to seek legal help to protect its commercial interests.

Sources said legal advisers had asked GAIL to set up the pipeline as a separate infrastructure project independent of the development of gasfields in Iran.

The two nations should reach an agreement under which the proceeds from the gas sales should be deposited in a development fund. This will not violate the provisions of the UN resolutions or face US sanctions.

The UN had passed resolutions against Iran in 2006 and 2007 to discontinue its nuclear programme. The Iran Freedom Support Act of the US imposes sanctions on entities that provide goods or services for Iran’s weapon programme.

After a gap of two years, Iran has proposed a bilateral meeting between New Delhi and Tehran. India, too, has agreed. “The dates for bilateral talks suggested by us were not accepted by the Iranian delegation. They now want the meeting to be held in Tehran and we are waiting for the fresh dates,” a senior petroleum ministry official said.

The last meeting on the pipeline project, involving Iran, Pakistan and India, was held in July 2007.

Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao had recently said Tehran’s importance as an energy partner stemmed from the “natural complementarity between the needs of energy-hungry India, which hopes to grow at a rate of 8-10 per cent in the coming years, and Iran, which is home to the third largest proven oil reserves and second largest gas reserves”.

According to sources, legal experts want the pipeline project to be divided into three separate entities. “This will ensure there is no single ‘Iran gas pipeline project’. Instead, there will be three different national pipelines that will be developed as part of the gas grid and will be coordinated and inter-connected with each other at their respective borders,” sources quoting the legal advisers said.

Experts also suggested that Tehran should consider setting up a trading company in a jurisdiction outside Iran for buying and selling gas, piped through the proposed pipeline, in the global market.

India has been boycotting the talks since 2008 over concerns on safe delivery of gas and frequent changes in the price. New Delhi wants Iran to stick to the price agreed between the two in 2007 and also wants it to be responsible for a safe passage of the gas through Pakistan.

Talks on the 2,300km pipeline started in 1995. Iran and India inked preliminary agreements to transport gas through Pakistan. It was dubbed the “peace pipeline” on hopes that it would improve relations between India and Pakistan.

Around 60 million standard cubic meters a day of gas is likely to flow through the pipeline that may be equally divided between India and Pakistan.

 

[ejaz007]

Its better to think the undersea pipeline which is more practical and possible.

Construction of pipeline under sea is very expensive compared to one on land. Then maintenance of the same is also expensive and very difficult.

 

[ejaz007]

no way we can have it with it passing from pakistan. there are enough nutcases to blow that off in case of hostilities or without hostilities. we have options and we can go for them. peace is good but when it is not at the expense of our needs

I doubt India has many alternatives to this. It is perhaps the most economical option you have.

Also blowing a gas pipeline is not as easy as you thing. It is buried around five feet deep. Then the exact route map is also not known to every one. There are also patrolling parting that keep track of the pipeline.

One of the alternative is an undersea gas pipeline from Qatar to India but then that too shall pass through Pakistan's EEZ. However that project shall be too expensive and economically not feasible compared to this one.

 

[ejaz007]

this dream will always stay in pipe,which has no end

Then I assure you that it will be India which shall suffer the most. Your energy needs are growing and you need gas and the route is through Pakistan.

I guess you are stuck between the rock and the hard place.

 

[dabong1]

Just build a undersea pipeline or something.....leave pakistan out if.

 

[ejaz007]

I think there has been some recent talks with Pakistani FM and Indian counterpart on this. In a recent interview he indicated that India would very soon be joining the IPI. This could mean that Pakistan may have guaranteed the security of gas supplies in some way or another.
The recent talks with Indian FM Krishna in Iran indicates a buildup on this

The guarantees were assured way back by the Musharaf government. That is not the issue.

 

[ejaz007]

^^ Pakistan's gaurantee to India (or vice Versa) has no value in today's environment. India will enter this deal only if Iran gaurantees the safety of gas at Indian border. I dont see that happening as it is too much of a financial risk for Iran. Hence I dont see India playing any part in this deal. Also, unless China jumps in, I dont see too much of an upside for Iran on this..

Iran unfortunately can not provide such guarantees as Pakistan is not answerable to Iran. We have already assured such guarantees. India needs to make up mind on whether she needs gas or not.

 

[ejaz007]

Just build a undersea pipeline or something.....leave pakistan out if.

Even the under sea pipeline shall pass through Pakistan's EEZ.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A simple 'no' would have been sufficient for any banya

 

[gogbot]

Added to this would be a minimum of $ 1.1—1.2 per mmBtu towards the transportation cost and transit fee that India would have to pay for wheeling the gas through Pakistan, they said.

And some pakistani members here don't want to milk Indians for Cash ?

Hypothetically , if

Sources said Tehran wants to transfer ownership of gas to India at Iran-Pakistan border while New Delhi wants it to be at the Pakistan-India border, thereby making Iran explicitly responsible for safe delivery of gas.

Key bit to the whole agreement.

India will loose badly , If it has to pay for every bit of gas entering Pakistan.
No , one knows how much of it will ever actually reach India.

If Iran considers it too much of a risk , to take Pakistan's guarantee on security.
How can they expect India to feel differently about it.

fact is , IF moving this pipe through Pakistan is feasible proposal , then Iran should have no problem taking responsibility for the gas while it is there. Like they say what could ever go wrong.

If Iran feels it's too risky , It's hardly fair for India to have to take that gamble.

 

[Awesome]

This is never gonna happen, a pipe dream.

India is BSing, Iran should not entertain this response. India's goal is simply to keep delaying till the very end.

It's never going to happen, I agree.