India invites Pakistan for regional meet on Afghanistan

[kumarkumar1867]

We can do worst than just showing our concern , you know it ! And it is our backyard whether you believe it or not ...

Afghanistan can be best described as pockets of land controlled by different militias and not a sovereign nation by any chance ... Does it have a central Govt ? ... Keep us away if you can !

Read Post No # 40
NATO ke jaane ke baad kyaa pata hai kya ho....but Pulaav tou ban raha hai Afghanistan mei abhi... Nahi ban raha kyaa??
Pakistani brothers humesha DELLUSIONS mein rehte hai ....Urdu mei isse kehte hai ke "DIL BEHLAANE KE LIYE GHAALIB KA KHAYAAL ACHA HAI "

 

[Pakistanisage]

If You are Sure Indian will be toast by Taliban then you guys should insist India to take part in Afghan more & more. never knew Pakistanis love Indians so much that they are not allowing us to take self-destructive steps.

What planet do you guys live on. We Pakistanis are begging you BHARTIS to please come to AFHANISTAN in Mass. I would love that and 99% Pakistanis would love that. Please we beg you to come and bring your Armed Forces too. Infact if you have any Kahones you will come. Now don't make me repeat myself, you hear me ?

PADHARIYE MAHARAJ......

PADHARIYE SARKAR

AISI BHI KIYA BAYRUKHI HAI, KUMAR KUMAR BHAIYYA

 

[The Great One]

Let me break it down to you what India wants to achieve in Afghanistan. They want to have a stooge made out of Afghanistan , a govt with most of its ministers on Indian payroll , Afghan army's top brass on Indian payroll , Pashtuns out of Military brass. Anti Pakistan Afghan intelligence , Anti Pakistan Afghan policies. Suppression of pashtun majority through a minority strong enough to rule them through fist.

Once this is achieved , India would want to have strategic air bases and troops in Afghanistan , intelligence apparatus disguised as "trainers" to brainwash Afghan army against Pakistan from grass root level as well as to make sure the ethnic balance remains against the pashtun majority. Such a situation would allow Indian strategic thinkers to draw up a cold start invasion of Pakistan plan with a "two" front war , ie India and Afghan army attacking Pakistan from both sides at once which has more chance of succeeding "on paper" than India doing it on its own. [Even though it won't succeed on the ground.]

India wants to establish hegemony in Pakistan's strategic backyard , if it is successful , it would strip Pakistan of its options to have a fall back territory in an event of another "blitzkrieg" by India. Pakistan won't look at it as a nightmare scenario as it would NEVER materialize because we wont LET it be materialized. Pakistan wants a friendly Afghanistan , Iran , China to keep India isolated in the region in an event of another war. Moreover Afghanistan is pivotal for Pakistan to access lucrative energy markets in central asia and not to forget our "new found" friend Russia.

If India establishes hegemony in Afghanistan , it will strip Pakistan of its fair share in Eurasian corridor project hence rendering Gwadar , Karachi & upcoming Pasni/jewani ports useless for trade from Russia and Central asia. Even though kicking India completely out of Afghanistan [well & possible] won't be in a complete favor of Pakistan too , a legit Indian presence in Afghanistan which doesn't eliminate our interests can be tolerated.

Regards:

Seems like the Delusions of grandeur haven't yet been eradicated by your failing economy, I guess.
How do you plan to 'kick' India out, huh? India isn't dependent on Pakistan for moving shipments and/or troops into Afghanistan. We are soon building a railway line till much inside of AF, and your former daddy will still house some 25000 troops in Afghanistan even after their 'withdrawal'. Are you trying to imply that the 'non-state actors'[or in other words 'strategic assets'] will once again step up their attacks against the Indian embassies and diplomats, if the GOP wants to throw India out?
You talk of those conspiracy theories as if you have just walked out of a conference in New Delhi, where you just discussed how we will sabotage Pakistan through Afghanistan. Almost makes me laugh.

 

[SamantK]

What planet do you guys live on. We Pakistanis are begging you BHARTIS to please come to AFHANISTAN in Mass. I would love that and 99% Pakistanis would love that. Please we beg you to come and bring your Armed Forces too. Infact if you have any Kahones you will come. Now don't make me repeat myself, you hear me ?

PADHARIYE MAHARAJ......

PADHARIYE SARKAR

AISI BHI KIYA BAYRUKHI

You can dream and beg us to but we are not stupid as your country which followed the US line for decades.. thanks but no thanks!

 

[hamidhassan]

I would like to comment about indian invitation for regional develpment in a way that india is a country now with greater economy and with good relations with US (the key player in Afghanistan). Right now the indian Leading role is beacuase of PAK-US conflict on many issues, America is trying to push India into Afghanistan with economic and armed parameters and no doubt india is also willing to invest more for future... so far indian investment is concernd we should accept it as a Regional development and for betterment of poor people in afghanistan but this investment should be driven in coordination with pakistan honestly and truly instead of US.
In future there would be good and strong ties between PAK and India and ofcourse Afghanistan is also a brother country to pak and will get benefit from both.
WHY i say that India must work with Pakistan rather US because!!! Pakistan has 2500KM boreder with afghanistan, 3 Million people moved from AFG to Pak without any viza and permission but still living, working and even marrying in PAK, there are many reasons that the people on both sides of border has alot common and even families living on and across the borders, infact a strong people to people contact for centuries........
Now after US and NATO arrival the things went on a bit delay but not stopped permanent. After their departure the things will again become normal not completely but to a certain extant.
The justice demands that Pakistan should given a Leading role in this matter and obviously India can also lead the matters but with mutual TRUST and cooperation. PAkistan says, " Indian embassies in Afghanistan training the people to create insurgency in Balochistan province and Sindh and this was statrted righ after American conflicts with Pakistan in 2003-4, what i want to explain that US provided space for INDIA only to destabalize PAKISTAN. in fact they used Indian resources to twist pakistan!!!
IF india and PAK try to rebuild their trust and not to play for any other/outer the things can become SWEETER.
India and Pakistan has spent time and resources for wars with eachother and now time is changing both need eachother to cop with outer world, India need way for trade to AFG and other central Asian states so that they could increase exports and PAK also needs inda for cooperation in trade and investment. PAK and India infact cant live without eachother support!!!!! these two countries has commom language (no white or black master can understand their language) Same color thats why they are treated same in whole wolrd for their skin color always mistaken!!!! now if these two work together for this region with TRUST, HONESTY, and TRULY they can be more powerful in years. I wish for the better Future for both.

 

[The Great One]

I would like to comment about indian invitation for regional develpment in a way that india is a country now with greater economy and with good relations with US (the key player in Afghanistan). Right now the indian Leading role is beacuase of PAK-US conflict on many issues, America is trying to push India into Afghanistan with economic and armed parameters and no doubt india is also willing to invest more for future... so far indian investment is concernd we should accept it as a Regional development and for betterment of poor people in afghanistan but this investment should be driven in coordination with pakistan honestly and truly instead of US.
In future there would be good and strong ties between PAK and India and ofcourse Afghanistan is also a brother country to pak and will get benefit from both.
WHY i say that India must work with Pakistan rather US because!!! Pakistan has 2500KM boreder with afghanistan, 3 Million people moved from AFG to Pak without any viza and permission but still living, working and even marrying in PAK, there are many reasons that the people on both sides of border has alot common and even families living on and across the borders, infact a strong people to people contact for centuries........
Now after US and NATO arrival the things went on a bit delay but not stopped permanent. After their departure the things will again become normal not completely but to a certain extant.
The justice demands that Pakistan should given a Leading role in this matter and obviously India can also lead the matters but with mutual TRUST and cooperation. PAkistan says, " Indian embassies in Afghanistan training the people to create insurgency in Balochistan province and Sindh and this was statrted righ after American conflicts with Pakistan in 2003-4, what i want to explain that US provided space for INDIA only to destabalize PAKISTAN. in fact they used Indian resources to twist pakistan!!!
IF india and PAK try to rebuild their trust and not to play for any other/outer the things can become SWEETER.
India and Pakistan has spent time and resources for wars with eachother and now time is changing both need eachother to cop with outer world, India need way for trade to AFG and other central Asian states so that they could increase exports and PAK also needs inda for cooperation in trade and investment. PAK and India infact cant live without eachother support!!!!! these two countries has commom language (no white or black master can understand their language) Same color thats why they are treated same in whole wolrd for their skin color always mistaken!!!! now if these two work together for this region with TRUST, HONESTY, and TRULY they can be more powerful in years. I wish for the better Future for both.

And what do you expect us to do, when we are faced with incidents like 26/11. Until the terrorist infrastructure and ideology continues to thrive in Pak, there can be no such deal.

 

[SQ8]

And what do you expect us to do, when we are faced with incidents like 26/11. Until the terrorist infrastructure and ideology continues to thrive in Pak, there can be no such deal.

And it will continue to do so, as long as there are incentives for it.
Currently it is suffering due to India's peace overtures..men like Hafiz Saeed are having to come up with more and more creative ideas to try and inspire hate.. which is not working as they'd hoped.
The so called "Difa-e-Pakistan" council has to now literally drain every madressa for some possible loony to bring to their gatherings. The common man, the daily wager.. is not interested.

 

[The Great One]

And it will continue to do so, as long as there are incentives for it.
Currently it is suffering due to India's peace overtures..men like Hafiz Saeed are having to come up with more and more creative ideas to try and inspire hate.. which is not working as they'd hoped.
The so called "Difa-e-Pakistan" council has to now literally drain every madressa for some possible loony to bring to their gatherings. The common man, the daily wager.. is not interested.

It is?
Would like to tell you that a friend of mine currently working in the Mah[Mumbai] ATS......... ......disagrees.[sorry, no links and can't prove this one]
This has become a cliche, here in Pakistan Defense Forum, of blaming us for the terrorist syndicates working in Pakistan. I understand and appreciate the positive sentiments that are sometimes behind these thoughts, but then again we are the ones who suffer due to the action of these madmen and we are left to defend to against several such attacks that happen every year, or rather every month [foiled ones are counted too ^, and again, another fact that I cannot prove here]. If the peace overtures really worked, than we wouldn't have those terrorists in the first place. The terrorists are really unaffected by this.
Maybe the common man don't bother about these scums, but there are enough uneducated, unemployed youth waiting in your tribal areas to be brainwashed by these scums. The point is, this problem cannot be just eliminated if India stops providing them 'incentives' [which by the way, is still the same age-old Kashmir issue]. 'Incentives' are their and even if we remove them now, they may still find something new and better.
The only solution is to pump some lead into the brains of these maggots and you will see the change, not only in the terrorist activities but also in the attitude of India towards Pakistan.

 

[karan.1970]

Are you " US " ?

Ok , hold it ... Who's stopping you ? But in the end , all is futile if there's no Pakistan supporting you ... The sooner you understand this , the better ...

Well, to each its own.. 6 months ago you closed the NATO routes thinking without Pakistan's support the US forces will fall flat in Afg.. Since then, not only has USA said "Go to Hell" to the Pakistani demands of an apology (they were pretty quick to apologize for teh Afghan deaths though), but has seriously intensified its operations on Pakistani soil... Seems to me some Pakistanis like you are living in a delusional sense of over inflated sense of importance for Pakistan..

 

[hamidhassan]

Well if you really know the ground reality of AF you would agree that KArzai government is only on the 30% of AF and the rest of the country is under influence of tribes who are in contact with 'Talibans" and also in contact with the governemnt. what i want to say is that in few years America will have to exile from the AF not because i wish so but due to disturbance by the Local people and also the Taliban forces. America want to keep only few bases like "Kandhar" and the local will not agree upon this.(Public opinion) lets see what happens!!!
Ok now talk about 26/11 till now the PAK agencies claim this was an inside job by INDIAN and few other agencies and Hafiz Saeed still denies and has been tialed in court(WE People of Pakistan Condem such attackes whoever is involed), you know 35,000 People have been killed in pakistan in bomb attacks, thousands of soldiers killed in attacks, ISI head quarters were attacked, PNS mehran was attacked, high profile hotels were destroyed. DO YOU really think everything was carried out by insurgents?? infact NOOO!! there were many evidances which proved the weapons and explosions and also the captured people exposed the indian involvment. My question is that is it difficult to carryout any insurgency in 36-Garh, Maharashtra, Tamil , Mao and many other places where Poverty and people are in rush!!! a country of 125 crore almost there is nothing impossible if pakistan want to carryout any action, but this would be not a mile stone towards peaceful region, We see and analyze that Pakistan has really changed its policy towards counter/cold war in INDIA we really feel and see!!
What my point of view is that both PAK and IND has potential to move in right direction in science and technology and also in Agriculture, there are hundrads of sectors where China and Pak investing and even both can't undertstand words and languages why can't WE Sorry and build trust who can undertsnad each other better than any one else. I will still hope for better Future for both.... Forget what happened and MOVE forward with HONESTY... Do not take it as a failure/cowardance or depression just take it as one has learnt from the past and experience.
Once a man asked that what is a WAR and how it starts and ends??? then himself explained that war starts with this button "START" and never ends till the worrior ends... and now the buttons on both side are very sophisticated it will end all warrior in seconds and we will be back in Stones!!!
People on both sides are such curious about knowing , meeting, seeing and even want to have friendship with eachother if you speach about love and friendshiip, both become excited and they think about eachother and they want to offer their hearts but if you would talk about war both get ready in seconds, """"BOTH are SAME".
i have analyzed this on a place when i saw indian visitors and then i came to know WE ARE SAME

 

[karan.1970]

Yes .. everybody around the world is talking about this certificate....

zardari signs it right??

From the looks of it, Zardari and Kayani have already signed a bunch of those without the details and have given them to Americans for discretionary use

India is making a desperate attempt to get a foothold in Afghanistan after NATO forces leave. The Problem is India's mouth is writing checks on Afghanistan, its body can't cash. India holds NO CARDS in Afghanistan and the Bluff game is not going to work here. When Nato leaves, Taliban will be back and India will be TOAST. It is as SIMPLE as that. so India should save all that money for its own impoverished citizens.


Ghar mein FAQAA hai or chalain hain Khayraat baatney.

Whenever I see some one typing a whole post in bold or caps, an old saying comes to mind

"Jisski Baat mein dum nahin hota, wo hi apni aawaz oonchi kar ke bolta hai "

Just one question , what makes you think that all the make-believe things and best case scenarios you mentioned will be possible and some how be allowed by Pakistan ? ...

Because Pakistan has no say left in whats going on in Afghanistan and is having enough problems in maintaining a say in what's going on even within Pakistan....

 

[karan.1970]

We can do worst than just showing our concern , you know it ! And it is our backyard whether you believe it or not ...

Zilch.. Can only demand, sulk and complain... or get china to issue warnings

Afghanistan can be best described as pockets of land controlled by different militias and not a sovereign nation by any chance ... Does it have a central Govt ? ... Keep us away if you can !

People now have this impression more about Pakistan than Afghanistan

 

[SQ8]

It is?
Would like to tell you that a friend of mine currently working in the Mah[Mumbai] ATS......... ......disagrees.[sorry, no links and can't prove this one]
This has become a cliche, here in Pakistan Defense Forum, of blaming us for the terrorist syndicates working in Pakistan. I understand and appreciate the positive sentiments that are sometimes behind these thoughts, but then again we are the ones who suffer due to the action of these madmen and we are left to defend to against several such attacks that happen every year, or rather every month [foiled ones are counted too ^, and again, another fact that I cannot prove here]. If the peace overtures really worked, than we wouldn't have those terrorists in the first place. The terrorists are really unaffected by this.
Maybe the common man don't bother about these scums, but there are enough uneducated, unemployed youth waiting in your tribal areas to be brainwashed by these scums. The point is, this problem cannot be just eliminated if India stops providing them 'incentives' [which by the way, is still the same age-old Kashmir issue]. 'Incentives' are their and even if we remove them now, they may still find something new and better.
The only solution is to pump some lead into the brains of these maggots and you will see the change, not only in the terrorist activities but also in the attitude of India towards Pakistan.

Not correct.. Current media perception matters a lot.
People accept what they see on the news and when they see peace overtures their subconscious registers it.
Its not about blame or source..
Peace overtures are part of the solution to end terrorism, I agree that unless widespread education is given there can be no solution.
but killing will not fix it.. it will only turn the attention of such mindless nuts elsewhere.. perhaps they will murder Pakistanis solely for ten years.. but what after that? When they are done butchering their share of innocents in this country?
You may not be able to turn an existing nutjob from his PoV, but you may prevent more joining their cause through media perception.. media perception that shows that India is not going to be the aggressor, media perception that shows the people in Kashmir meeting up and agreeing to simply talk, media perception that shows businessmen and educationalists meeting.
When those pictures, those gestures get beamed over to even 70% of the population... then it makes it easier to try and prevent problems with the 30%.

People working in agencies across borders work on intel reports.. intel reports that are based usually on Humans..
Humans can be bought.. or they can be deceptive.. or both.
Unless one steps into the streets themselves, walks among the people...its difficult to ascertain the actual ground reality.

This overture by India is an excellent one, it acts as an olive branch to the Pakistani deep state and soothes their concerns over India being too involved in Afghanistan.

 

[SamantK]

Not correct.. Current media perception matters a lot.
People accept what they see on the news and when they see peace overtures their subconscious registers it.
Its not about blame or source..
Peace overtures are part of the solution to end terrorism, I agree that unless widespread education is given there can be no solution.
but killing will not fix it.. it will only turn the attention of such mindless nuts elsewhere.. perhaps they will murder Pakistanis solely for ten years.. but what after that? When they are done butchering their share of innocents in this country?
You may not be able to turn an existing nutjob from his PoV, but you may prevent more joining their cause through media perception.. media perception that shows that India is not going to be the aggressor, media perception that shows the people in Kashmir meeting up and agreeing to simply talk, media perception that shows businessmen and educationalists meeting.
When those pictures, those gestures get beamed over to even 70% of the population... then it makes it easier to try and prevent problems with the 30%.

People working in agencies across borders work on intel reports.. intel reports that are based usually on Humans..
Humans can be bought.. or they can be deceptive.. or both.
Unless one steps into the streets themselves, walks among the people...its difficult to ascertain the actual ground reality.

This overture by India is an excellent one, it acts as an olive branch to the Pakistani deep state and soothes their concerns over India being too involved in Afghanistan.

We are being laughed at the peace overtures in Afghanistan, Pakistan's establishment still sees India with mistrust even when India rejected the proposal of our trainers on the Afghan soil and to what end?

There are enough channels from where these extremist draw their soldiers, the funding and no political will to rein in the likes of Hafiz saeed who keep doing what they do.. There is no limit to how many they will kill, it does not matter for them. peace overtures can help to a certain extent and this problems cannot be stopped from only one front.. an Iron hand is required.

 

[The Great One]

Not correct.. Current media perception matters a lot.
People accept what they see on the news and when they see peace overtures their subconscious registers it.
Its not about blame or source..
Peace overtures are part of the solution to end terrorism, I agree that unless widespread education is given there can be no solution.
but killing will not fix it.. it will only turn the attention of such mindless nuts elsewhere.. perhaps they will murder Pakistanis solely for ten years.. but what after that? When they are done butchering their share of innocents in this country?
You may not be able to turn an existing nutjob from his PoV, but you may prevent more joining their cause through media perception.. media perception that shows that India is not going to be the aggressor, media perception that shows the people in Kashmir meeting up and agreeing to simply talk, media perception that shows businessmen and educationalists meeting.
When those pictures, those gestures get beamed over to even 70% of the population... then it makes it easier to try and prevent problems with the 30%.

People working in agencies across borders work on intel reports.. intel reports that are based usually on Humans..
Humans can be bought.. or they can be deceptive.. or both.
Unless one steps into the streets themselves, walks among the people...its difficult to ascertain the actual ground reality.

This overture by India is an excellent one, it acts as an olive branch to the Pakistani deep state and soothes their concerns over India being too involved in Afghanistan.

Peace overtures are part of the solution to end terrorism

Unquestionably true, but if left alone to peace moves, as your post seems to suggest, it simply cannot get the job done. Even the peace moves affect a really small part of the population, unless of course by peace overtures you mean something like AB Vajpayee sitting on a bus to Lahore.
The freaks will continue to run their show. Their finances are pretty much secured with the Arabs providing the bulwark, and unless subjected to intense pressure from the Pakistani state, they can continue their activities unbridled.
Also, the question isn't of just stopping more people from converting into extremists, but also preventing the existing ones to further their plots which is not possible with Aman-ki-asha and the like. Plus, there is a lot of distrust among the Pakistani people on their politicos. Peace deals may just be used to sell the already famous notions that your politicians are just sell-outs working for D.C or in this case Delhi.
Even if you somehow magically manage to prevent even a single person from picking up the arms and going to a terrorist camp from today, we still have enough people willing to blow themselves to get those 2 virgins and 70 $luts. The only way to really eliminate terrorism from Pakistani soil is to fiercely enforce the land of the law and get those damn training camps to a dead halt. Something which seems impossible, given that some elements of Pakistani establishments themselves seem to support it.
Anyway, nice chatting with you. I seldom meet someone here with such a broad and open mind with reference to terrorism.