India finalizing US $ 10 billion mega stealth frigates’ project

[INDIAISM]

Around 1.57 Billion dollars per frigate damm i think we have lost our minds....



Note-1$=45 INR

 

[Nair saab]

With That 10 billion Dollar we Can make 3 Air-Craft aircraft carrier along with Battle group ... R we Crazy to Built a Frigates worth 1.5 billion ...

Now what would be its Displacement 15,000 tons as its 3 times Costlier than the Shivalik Class which is of 5,000 ton ...

I think the 10 billion Includes the Commission of UPA...

 

[INDIAISM]

@Nairsaab i don't know about the 3 aircraft carriers but we can definatly get two Elizabeth class Aircraft carriers with displacement of 65000 ton each for 8.4 Billion $......sir i didn't knew that we are so rich that we paying 1.5 Billion$ for 750 million $ product......
11 Billion$ for 7 Stealth Frigates {1.5 Billion $ per copy} .
11 Billion$ for 6 Next Gen Diesel electric submarines {1.8 Billion $ per copy}

 

[Nair saab]

@Nairsaab i don't know about the 3 aircraft carriers but we can definatly get two Elizabeth class Aircraft carriers with displacement of 65000 ton each for 8.4 Billion $......sir i didn't knew that we are so rich that we paying 1.5 Billion$ for 750 million $ product......
11 Billion$ for 7 Stealth Frigates {1.5 Billion $ per copy} .
11 Billion$ for 6 Next Gen Diesel electric submarines {1.8 Billion $ per copy}

Pray to GOD UPA doesnt Plan to Make Nuke Powered AC ... which would be worth 30 billion for each if Gandi Clan & Kangress is in Power ... God Forbid ...

 

[Abingdonboy]

With That 10 billion Dollar we Can make 3 Air-Craft aircraft carrier along with Battle group ... R we Crazy to Built a Frigates worth 1.5 billion ...

Now what would be its Displacement 15,000 tons as its 3 times Costlier than the Shivalik Class which is of 5,000 ton ...

I think the 10 billion Includes the Commission of UPA...

I'm sorry to say this but you clearly have no idea what you are saying. What do you think is part of a CBG? Frigates maybe? You can't have ACCs outnumbering frigates and destroyers in a navy not only would this be stupid in warfare terms but also highly sustainable due to the incredibly operating costs of ACCs and the fact that, by nature, an ACC requires huge amounts of manpower to operate it. And the fact is these frigates are multi-role platforms able to pretty much do everything ie ASW, surface warfare, anti-air etc etc whilst you cannont claim ACCs are. Navies are built on frigates and destroyers. ACCs might be the most prestigious surface ships but it is the "unsung heroes" like frigates and destroyers that allow these assets to operate and really add punch to a navy. These frigates are simply unmatched in the region and much of the world and having 7 of them is just unreal and such inductions along with others are making the IN a very potent force in the world. And anyway yes, they are expensive but you pay for what you get- the Arleigh Burke class destroyers for instance cost close to $1.7 BN per ship a decade ago and are still some of the most potent surface vessels around. The IN is not on some shoe-string budget so they have clearly asked for all the "bells and whistles" on the P-17/P-17A and there is a cost for this(literally!).

You have taken a far too simplistic view and come to a very wrong conclusion.Using your logic- for the same cost of the VIkramditya, IAC-1 and IAC-2 the IN could have gotten 8-9 P-17As or 6-7 P-15A/Bs

+ $1.5 BN per ship is inaccurate- the true figure is closer to $1.1 BN per ship with a few BN being spent on infrastructure and construction upgrades

 

[Nair saab]

I'm sorry to say this but you clearly have no idea what you are saying. What do you think is part of a CBG? Frigates maybe? You can't have ACCs outnumbering frigates and destroyers in a navy not only would this be stupid in warfare terms but also highly sustainable due to the incredibly operating costs of ACCs and the fact that, by nature, an ACC requires huge amounts of manpower to operate it. And the fact is these frigates are multi-role platforms able to pretty much do everything ie ASW, surface warfare, anti-air etc etc whilst you cannont claim ACCs are. Navies are built on frigates and destroyers. ACCs might be the most prestigious surface ships but it is the "unsung heroes" like frigates and destroyers that allow these assets to operate and really add punch to a navy. These frigates are simply unmatched in the region and much of the world and having 7 of them is just unreal and such inductions along with others are making the IN a very potent force in the world. And anyway yes, they are expensive but you pay for what you get- the Arleigh Burke class destroyers for instance cost close to $1.7 BN per ship a decade ago and are still some of the most potent surface vessels around. The IN is not on some shoe-string budget so they have clearly asked for all the "bells and whistles" on the P-17/P-17A and there is a cost for this(literally!).

You have taken a far too simplistic view and come to a very wrong conclusion.


+ $1.5 BN per ship is inaccurate- the true figure is closer to $1.1 BN per ship with a few BN being spent on infrastructure and construction upgrades

Now where did the Article Say about spending few Billions on infrastructure ... & Secondly even if its 1.1 billion it costs more then Twice the amount of Shivalik Frigate ... i bet navy need funds on even more urgent Things to Spend on ... rather Then Constructing the Costliest Frigate on Earth ...

 

[newdelhinsa]

Is it not pointless to aim for stealth at sea? I mean all the planes and satellites can already see you.

Live satellite feed for tactical/operational advantage and detection is still a luxury of few or may be non as far as covering massive ocean areas are concerned. Air assets may be an advantage but they are as vulnerable as maritime assets given the strike range and detection power of modern naval fleets, also its better to have stealth designs than ordinary even when we expect air surveillance in place which almost work on same principles (Radar active/passive or both) like its naval counterparts.

I am not very sure on this but I think stealthy ships are more agile and faster to do counter manoeuvres if detected as well.

 

[scrumpy]

I usually don't comment on actual defence related threads but I recently came across this article in the register which talks about how Frigates are 'Pointless"
Royal Navy starts work on new, pointless frigates ? The Register

So, does this same argument apply to these frigates as well?

 

[INDIAISM]

@Abingdonboy....i don't know wether you know that or not.....The estimated cost of Next Gen Type 26 stealth frigate for Rayal Navy which will enter into service in 2020 is around around 400 million GBP{620 Million $ per copy }......and its obvious this 620 Million $ include the cost of R&D and infrastructure....Btw what kind of R&D will we do for this project....what i mean is Our present stealth frigate have-

American Engine
Israeli and French sensor and radar
Russian anti aircraft missile
Russian Rocket Launcher
Russian or Indo-Russian anti ship missile
Italian Naval Gun
Israeli Sam Barak
French or Britsh helicoptor

 

[Abingdonboy]

The P-17 cost ~$700-800 mill per ship so obviously the new P-17As which will be larger and more advanced with new 3D AESA MF-STARs, new SAMs, new additions to the superstructure etc will cost more.


+ Nair Saab the article does not mention anything about infrastructure but that is a given and has been stated before- how do you think new shipyards are funded, new tooling acquired and new techniques mastered? The Yanter shipyard in Russia has completely modernized itself and upgrades all its facilities as a direct result of funds from IN for Talwar class vessels.


But anyway the IN have their own design dept, their own "shopping list" of demands for all their vessels and their own vision for future force levels and now the funds to enact these plans. They are highly informed in thie arena and I would say would know far more than any of us. If they feel the P-17A is what they want then I side with them and agree. They have been bowled over by P-17 btw.

+ I would not use the RN as a arguing point- they are a declining force and the Brit govt and media are doing everything possible to justify not spending money and cutting back on forces. The IN is EXPANDING in size and capabilities so is non-comparable.

Look at USN they very much are still invested in frigates for the foreseeable future. And anyway the case of the RN is very different to the case of the IN in terms of frigates in service, future force levels, projected hostiles, funds available in future etc

 

[Abingdonboy]

If you read the article you will see they attack specific design issues of the Type 26 which the P-17A addresses ie the article attacks the Typw 26 for its laxk of firepower (8 Harpoons) but the P-17As will carry 8+ Bhramos missiles that are MUCH faster and have a much greater range than the Harpoon.

 

[Devianz]

Why do we have different reports mentioning different weights for Shivalik class? I remember before their launch everyone was saying it had an empty weight of 6200 tons, now many sources give it as 4900. But this report says it's 6100 tons.

 

[angeldemon_007]

The P-17 cost ~$700-800 mill per ship so obviously the new P-17As which will be larger and more advanced with new 3D AESA MF-STARs, new SAMs, new additions to the superstructure etc will cost more.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...stealth-frigates-project-2.html#ixzz20BsHygWt

The ******* P17A FFG per unit cost is 1.43 billion $. I hope this warship should at-least be 7000+ tons. Or if we have so much money to throw then we could just purchase the ******* BAE system Type 45 DDG or F125 FFG.

Type 45 DDG
900 million $ per ship
8,000 tonnes

F125 FFG
€650 million per ship
7,200 tonnes

Both of the above companies are desparate and will anything if this contract is given to them. The number can be increased to 10 and 2 warship each for GRSE and MDL so they can learn.

 

[arp2041]

members over here questioning the budget for the project are in a sense questioning the sanity of Indian Navy, which is the only armed force in India with incredible faith in indigenous tech. IN people are not mad to go for a ship which (assuming) cost them double the money & half the capability of other comparable ships in the world. P-17A will be one of the best frigates in the world, largest stealth ships + Barak 8 + Brahmos 2 + more tonnage with additional firepower, it will be indeed a naval marvel also it will be built with a modular approach so decreasing the time of induction. No doubt they cost more.

As far as i know Indian Navy is one force that every Indian member here is proud of, why this Kolaveri now

 

[black_jack]

guys this ship will have displacement of 6800-7200 tonnes .
It will have best anti ship missile , best air defence system , 2 helicopter hanger , more stealthy then shivalik class (and more quieter ) , It will have an American engine (best in its class ) .

construction is suppose to take place between 2012-2021 ,

so in my opinion 10B$ is reasonable ( for 7 frigate )