India drops out of 2012 PISA test

[Götterdämmerung]

Excuses or not, one thing is for sure. I have never heard of PISA until now

I had to google it

The point they are trying to make is the fact that Indians show a lot of success in many fields, but then fail in PISA which is a bit intriguing. Surely there is some disconnect somewhere. Either in India's education system, or the kind of students they sent to take the test.

There is in fact not a huge correlation of brilliant Indian students and the PISA test. As a nation of 1.2 billion souls, there will always be a few millions who are above average even under difficult circumstances. What PISA tells you is the average of all students, the few gifted ones as well as the rest of the not so well endowed one. A well functioning society cannot rely on a few brilliant people, it needs a well educated mass. That's why we care a lot about PISA as even a janitor needs to understand how to function in a highly automated and digitalised complex society and workplace in my part of the world.

I'm really surprised that Indians that loves to compare its performance with others does not know much about PISA. Maybe you guys should put your priorities right.

 

[fast]

Why has India dropped out? Isn't India Shining?

 

[illusion8]

LOL what hundreds of talk shows or newspaper articles are u talking? nobody even cared about this PISA, and it didn't exactly become a national debate. We heard of this PISA from the chinese I bet no one else either from BD, SL OR PK even knew it existed . I had to google it and till now i dont know the full form of 'PISA' and actually dont care and dont think even the GOI cares hence the non participation.

 

[mfreak]

What PISA tells you is the average of all students, the few gifted ones as well as the rest of the not so well endowed one.

This is a classic mistake people make when they indulge in statistical masturbation. PISA is representative of the sample that takes the test. Averages or not. Thats all there is to it. It is however NOT indicative of the CAPABILITIES of an entire population, or even the entire student population or even the group of students who took the test.

Check out this group called Super 30 in a remote part of India.

super30.org/index.html

These guys are so poor, you wouldnt believe their achievements. Am sure none of them were sent for the PISA test which would indicate low income, high performance, which would directly fall opposite to general predictions that income levels correlate to success in tests (or even IQ tests for that matter - which are not indicative of intelligence btw).

However what PISA MIGHT indicate, is the kind of education we impart to our students. So we have to ask ourselves certain questions. Is our education too text book oriented? Is our math and science actually below par? What caused the low scores? Do we have to improve studies on the critical reasoning front? etc etc.,

We also have to definitely ask questions - Who were sent for the test? What schools and what curriculum where they used to generally?

An answer formulated for all these questions then has to be used to impart changes to our school system, ESPECIALLY the schools those kids who took the test came from. IF it is found to be necessary.

A well functioning society cannot rely on a few brilliant people, it needs a well educated mass. That's why we care a lot about PISA as even a janitor needs to understand how to function in a highly automated and digitalised complex society and workplace in my part of the world.

I think I answered this bit above. What is well educated and not well educated isnt indicated by PISA. There is also a reason why Indians still score higher than many students from the OECD countries especially in Math - especially in tests like the GRE, GMAT etc even with the current education system. So if our current system allows us to succeed but score less on the PISA, then we should still maintain current standards. BTW when the systems in society are automated and digitalized, its actually much simpler. Not complex. Otherwise there is no point in doing that.

I'm really surprised that Indians that loves to compare its performance with others does not know much about PISA. Maybe you guys should put your priorities right.

PISA is not the center of the world in countries like India. Over here we do everything we need to do to actually succeed, and not win tests. And PISA is not indicative of actual success. What if a guy for example is bad in math and science but good in....lets say painting? Even that person can succeed.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

LOL what hundreds of talk shows or newspaper articles are u talking? nobody even cared about this PISA, and it didn't exactly become a national debate. We heard of this PISA from the chinese I bet no one else either from BD, SL OR PK even knew it existed . I had to google it and till now i dont know the full form of 'PISA' and actually dont care and dont think even the GOI cares hence the non participation.

I was obviously talking about Germany and not about India and South Asia as we did badly 12 years ago that caused an uproar through the media as well as the society and we have improved a bit through many reforms and still we are far from being content with the last result.

Ignorance is not a good defence of ones failure.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

This is a classic mistake people make when they indulge in statistical masturbation. PISA is representative of the sample that takes the test. Averages or not. Thats all there is to it. It is however NOT indicative of the CAPABILITIES of an entire population, or even the entire student population or even the group of students who took the test.

Check out this group called Super 30 in a remote part of India.

super30.org/index.html

These guys are so poor, you wouldnt believe their achievements. Am sure none of them were sent for the PISA test which would indicate low income, high performance, which would directly fall opposite to general predictions that income levels correlate to success in tests (or even IQ tests for that matter - which are not indicative of intelligence btw).

However what PISA MIGHT indicate, is the kind of education we impart to our students. So we have to ask ourselves certain questions. Is our education too text book oriented? Is our math and science actually below par? What caused the low scores? Do we have to improve studies on the critical reasoning front? etc etc.,

We also have to definitely ask questions - Who were sent for the test? What schools and what curriculum where they used to generally?

An answer formulated for all these questions then has to be used to impart changes to our school system, ESPECIALLY the schools those kids who took the test came from. IF it is found to be necessary.



I think I answered this bit above. What is well educated and not well educated isnt indicated by PISA. There is also a reason why Indians still score higher than many students from the OECD countries especially in Math - especially in tests like the GRE, GMAT etc even with the current education system. So if our current system allows us to succeed but score less on the PISA, then we should still maintain current standards. BTW when the systems in society are automated and digitalized, its actually much simpler. Not complex. Otherwise there is no point in doing that.



PISA is not the center of the world in countries like India. Over here we do everything we need to do to actually succeed, and not win tests. And PISA is not indicative of actual success. What if a guy for example is bad in math and science but good in....lets say painting? Even that person can succeed.

Blablabla ... PISA is not about winning a test ... blablabla ... Indians are so brilliant and people from OECD countries are dim ...

 

[mfreak]

Indians are so brilliant and people from OECD countries are dim ...

Sure thank you, thats what I thought. If you say so.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Sure thank you, thats what I thought. If you say so.

I'm glad, that it's so easy to make you happy. I hope that all Indians are like you. I really do!

 

[fast]

Sure thank you, thats what I thought. If you say so.

He was just summarizing your long BS post. You turn out to be not that bright.

 

[mfreak]

I'm glad, that it's so easy to make you happy. I hope that all Indians are like you. I really do!

Yes all Indians are happy. Cuz as you are trashing people here, they are succeeding and improving in life. You might wanna take a page out of our book!

He was just summarizing your long BS post. You turn out to be not that bright.

That depends if you read my post or not. PISA is not indicative of capabilities. It can however indicate what kind of education people are used to, and whether we need to improve it or not. Fact!

 

[Audio]

Your way or western way of education are different. We don't have to make projects and get grades. We appear for tests - two mid terms and one final term. The syllabus is distributed according to it.

Most of the Indian students never even present an article before their class in the regions where these tests are considered.

The approach of the subject means a lot. Indians are not good in innovating like US students reason is, the way they are taught.

We can't provide visual/audio aid for presentation. Hardly every school has computer education. The regions where these tests were taken, their economic condition and availability of resources should also be taken into account.

How can you expect a student from India who has just read his books, perform competitively with a Western student, who not only have read books but also have internet to search for more information, have Youtube tutorials and experimental education. ?

I published research article when I was in college where as I have met people who were yet to publish one paper in their PhD , especially those who were doing it in normal universities. Am I more intelligent than them, nope, but I had the exposure to work with ex-NASA scientist, his research papers, his guidance and Journal subscription provided by my university.

How could that guy compete with me if I had the upper hand on the resources ?

Its math, reading and science for 15 year olds. No powerpoint presentations required, or you tube tutorials. Just chalk and a board on which to write on. 15-20 years ago there were hardly any computers present in our schools but we turned out just fine.
I somewhat agree about the location of the tests but the rest of above argument isn't really sound.

 

[fast]

That depends if you read my post or not. PISA is not indicative of capabilities. It can however indicate what kind of education people are used to, and whether we need to improve it or not. Fact!

It doesn't change the FACT that you misread his post and acted like an idiot.

 

[mfreak]

Its math, reading and science for 15 year olds. No powerpoint presentations required, or you tube tutorials.

It depends on the content that is tested. There is skill based education and there is content based education. Not sure how it is tested in PISA. And both have their positives and negatives.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Yes all Indians are happy. Cuz as you are trashing people here, they are succeeding and improving in life. You might wanna take a page out of our book!

Sure, I just need to look out of my window and realised that I live in an underdeveloped country unlike you guys in highly developed India.

I have been here for almost one year and made 1448 posts, while you made in a month 414 posts ... I should indeed try to learn from you guys to improve my life ...

 

[mfreak]

It doesn't change the FACT that you misread his post and acted like an idiot.

I didnt misread his post. Whatever I said in 2 lines, I explained in the bigger post. See below. The Students could have been brilliant, they might still fail in PISA tests, because of the content tested, or the way the test is formulated. Whatever it is, it doesnt say whether the student is dumb or brilliant, it only indicates where the disconnect lies - the type of education, curriculum etc., You might wanna actually read my post and comprehend than throw a hissy fit calling others idiots.

There is in fact not a huge correlation of brilliant Indian students and the PISA test

Sure, I just need to look out of my window and realised that I live in an underdeveloped country unlike you guys in highly developed India.

Yes you live in a more developed nation, Ill give you that. So?

I have been here for almost one year and made 1448 posts, while you made in a month 414 posts ... I should indeed try to learn from you guys to improve my life ...

Sue me for having access to a computer and a job