India drops out of 2012 PISA test

[mfreak]

Why is this so surprising? Maybe the Japanese fall behind because of English. You d need good command of English to be considered employable on the global scene.

And of course they must have made it up, anything which doesn't show China in good light is made up.

A whopping 38% of Chinese Engineering Graduates lack technical skills

Thats a nice perspective mate. And I can agree with that. I personally WORK with Chinese folks, and I found it incredibly difficult to communicate with them. I mean socially its all good, but because of language issues, they find it difficult to understand what I am trying to communicate.

Also I can understand about the lack of Managerial potential, Problem Solving and Teamwork etc. I have lots of examples in these categories where the Chinese fall below Indians.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

this is surprising

i thought Chinese education system is superior than ours

Not sure about education system being superior but they have far better facilities for their school children than us.

 

[IND151]

Poor PISA score: Govt blames ‘disconnect’ with India - Indian Express




Had PISA been done in a city like Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, the score would have been different. Instead of pulling out of PISA they should have restricted the tests to First tier and second tier cities only.

The NCERT in its report concluded that “non-exposure of students (especially in rural areas) towards the items tested in PISA” was a critical factor in the poor performance by Indian students. They cited questions relating to ATMs and use of air bags in cars.

off coarse

how can students do well if they haven't been exposed to that subject earlier.

 

[IND151]

IQ tests are not a reliable indicator of intelligence.

The only thing an IQ test can prove, is how good someone is at doing IQ tests.

The OECD Pisa results have everything to do with education systems.

????????????

 

[IND151]

The content of text books, the major areas of understanding and level of mathematical skills taught also means a lot.

Your way or western way of education are different. We don't have to make projects and get grades. We appear for tests - two mid terms and one final term. The syllabus is distributed according to it.

Most of the Indian students never even present an article before their class in the regions where these tests are considered.

The approach of the subject means a lot. Indians are not good in innovating like US students reason is, the way they are taught.

We can't provide visual/audio aid for presentation. Hardly every school has computer education. The regions where these tests were taken, their economic condition and availability of resources should also be taken into account.

How can you expect a student from India who has just read his books, perform competitively with a Western student, who not only have read books but also have internet to search for more information, have Youtube tutorials and experimental education. ?

I published research article when I was in college where as I have met people who were yet to publish one paper in their PhD , especially those who were doing it in normal universities. Am I more intelligent than them, nope, but I had the exposure to work with ex-NASA scientist, his research papers, his guidance and Journal subscription provided by my university.

How could that guy compete with me if I had the upper hand on the resources ?

couldn't agree more

 

[WAR-rior]

@ALL

Guyz. thruout the discussion I have seen we are drifting away from the content of the newz.

We Indians are trying to refute the doc on basis of what we have done in space tech, foreign students, etc etc.

We have to understand that dropping out of PISA is no where related to our IQ level or our competancy internationally.

Do focus on the statement, 'The idea was that the entire country would participate in the next round of assessment. However, that plan was also dropped.'

This showz that tough our competancy is much better than most of students Internationally, in volume we do lack miserably. Its obvious, where almost 30% of population is BPL and other 20% is lower middle class and lower class, a huge chunk of students wud eventually bring down the total percentage in required statistic.

No doubt we are gud but we still lack a lot behind but on the other side, no doubt we still lack a lot we are moving fast enough in the right direction. RtE is one of the major steps.

 

[IND151]

We did manufacture our own supercomputer when US denied us. - Not in large numbers due to budget restraints.

We also have space program- Problems with heavier payload but progress is going fine, had Moon Orbiter, conducted over 100 space missions, developing own navigation system, first it will be regional, builds own communication satellites with comparatively very less budget. Our moon mission was fraction of other moon orbiter mission. This tells our optimization.

Even modern nations had power black out. Only reason of 600 million people affected is because we have population of 1.2 billion, When US had blackout and its population lets assume for a moment, be 1.2 billion, we can imagine similar situation. We should talk about percentage wise, not number wise.

We produce excess grains but poor in management. Its due to corruption and bad distribution system.

We have highest number of railway passengers and hundreds of million of people travel through it DAILY. So providing basic necessities are necessary as the number of people traveling is way higher. We don't have HST because of money but we are planning to construct such corridor. We provide cheap travel through railways. The majority can't afford HST so there is no need and we have to transport higher in number along with in time consideration. Hope you can do the calculation.

We are building highest bridge in the world. We have constructed one of the best railway program by KonKan railways, find the pictures. Our dams are among the highest ones.

We are among the selective club of nations who has built SSBNs, firgates, corvettes like you and constructing 65,000 tonnage ACC with modular approach.

.......List is too long. We are behind because of our own reasons and poverty, mal-nourishment, diseases, education etc. which you guys always talk about. Now think, with all these problems, we have done fine, so how can we be low in IQ.

So buddy, just like you have English problems, we have our own problem, so instead of mocking each other we should rather discuss how to eradicate it or if we can't do that, lets remain indifferent about it.

also since 1947 we have increased electricity production by 100 times and now we are 5th largest electricity producer, 2nd largest Cement Producer and 6th largest Automobile Producer in world.

 

[Jade]

Chinese students are intelligent and hard workers, but lack communication, leadership skills, don't mingle with others and are low on self confidence

May be that is the way they are brought up.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chinese students are intelligent and hard workers, but lack communication, leadership skills, don't mingle with others and are low on self confidence

May be that is the way they are brought up.

Wow, I guess that's why India beats us in terms of Economy. Not to mention sports like the Olympics. Also Education, Development, etc.

Chinese students are intelligent and hard workers, but lack communication, leadership skills, don't mingle with others and are low on self confidence.

Let's not be hypocrites, shall we?

According to the BBC, sales of skin whitening cream for men in India surpass the total sales of Coca Cola in India. So looking down on others regarding self-confidence really doesn't make sense.

 

[KRAIT]

@ALL

Guyz. thruout the discussion I have seen we are drifting away from the content of the newz.

We Indians are trying to refute the doc on basis of what we have done in space tech, foreign students, etc etc.

We have to understand that dropping out of PISA is no where related to our IQ level or our competancy internationally.

Do focus on the statement, 'The idea was that the entire country would participate in the next round of assessment. However, that plan was also dropped.'

This showz that tough our competancy is much better than most of students Internationally, in volume we do lack miserably. Its obvious, where almost 30% of population is BPL and other 20% is lower middle class and lower class, a huge chunk of students wud eventually bring down the total percentage in required statistic.

No doubt we are gud but we still lack a lot behind but on the other side, no doubt we still lack a lot we are moving fast enough in the right direction. RtE is one of the major steps.

I admit what you are saying but look at other arguments I have posted.

How can we judge one's capability if he/she isn't taught the thing or exposed to it. ?
I also admit that we should have allowed students of cities which have similar facilities instead of dropping all out.

Look at the primary concern of ours- Its primary at highest. India wants to literate its population more than anything. Higher education and graduation comes at different level. For that you need different approach especially in graduate level. Post-graduation is entirely different game.

In my city there re 40 engineering colleges which churn out thousands of engineers each year and almost 75-80% gets placed with acceptable salary considering their family income level.

But when it comes to primary education, first we need to provide is basic facility which is teachers, which aren't there. Believe me village kids and people are as intelligent as we.

So when it comes to comparing the education level, one needs to take into account all the factors. Its India. Things are not same as US, Germany or China.

Even in towns, there are hardly English medium schools and only 1 or 2 have CBSE schools.

You have to go through my posts where I have mentioned few points.

 

[Jade]

Wow, I guess that's why India beats us in terms of Economy. Not to mention sports like the Olympics. Also Education, Development, etc.



Let's not be hypocrites, shall we?

According to the BBC, sales of skin whitening cream for men in India surpass the total sales of Coca Cola in India. So looking down on others regarding self-confidence really doesn't make sense.

That has been my observation with my Chinese classmates. And yes, most Chinese I encountered are low on confidence.

As regarding the economy, you had a head start with around 10 year, so naturally you would be ahead.

And what about Chinese obsession with 'white' looks and the cosmetic surgery?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That has been my observation with my Chinese classmates. And yes, most Chinese I encountered are low on confidence.

As regarding the economy, you had a head start with around 10 year, so naturally you would be ahead.

Chinese who do not have the best English-language skills will naturally prefer to talk in Chinese with others. This does not necessarily indicate low confidence.

And Indians aren't exactly well known for being confident, didn't you see that statistic from the BBC?

I've seen plenty of Indians in HK, and while talking to me, they are usually looking at their feet. Is that more or less useful than your observation?

 

[KRAIT]

Guys, Chinese are good team players, way easier to work with, humble and hardworking. That's why they go well along with Indians. As Asians, they team up together. Considering theirs and ours hardworking and mathematical and analytical ability, they are compatible to work. Communication may be problematic sometimes but it doesn't affect that much as it is perceived.

 

[Hellraiser007]

I've seen plenty of Indians in HK, and while talking to me, they are usually looking at their feet. Is that more or less useful than your observation?

May be they don't want to see you

 

[Jade]

Chinese who do not have the best English-language skills will naturally prefer to talk in Chinese with others. This does not necessarily indicate low confidence.

And Indians aren't exactly well known for being confident, didn't you see that statistic from the BBC?

I've seen plenty of Indians in HK, and while talking to me, they are usually looking at their feet. Is that more or less useful than your observation?

What does 35% of new start ups by Indians as compared to just 7% of Chinese tells you?

And, I am talking of Chinese whose average GMAT scores are around 720s with a very high verbal score. If you say these Chinese have English problems, then I have nothing to say.