India completes propulsion system design of its new cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’

[Veer]

hypersonic is a typo... my bad. If you look at my other posts. Including my first link I clearly said supersonic. The Brahmos is a supersonic missile as well is it not?

lol, your the one that seems to have a problem and started attacking. Anyone that reads your responses can see that.

No problem.

I'm not attacking, just annoyed by your repleted claims of countering hypersonic cruise missiles.

The lab test of Hypersonic Brahmos has done and by 2012 it will be Hypersonic version will be inducted. And u accept that Pakistan and China don't have any counter to that.

 

[Thomas]

Are u blind or what?????????????????

From where u read in Wikipedia that ESSM can counter HYPERSONIC CRUISE MISSILES.

Are u real????????????????

Now, when u even don't know the difference between a HYPERSONIC & SUPERSONIC how can i expect a sane reply from u.

Forget it.

Also, ur knowledge is zero when u talk about Israel, Russia and US giving high tech systems to China.

U.S. veto over the Phalcon and then Harpy deals with China.
Russia supplies inferior aircraft to China and Su 30 MKI to India.

So go and do ur home work before asking others to do the same.

"The real danger comes in Israel's habit of reverse engineering U.S. technology and selling to nations hostile to U.S. interests. Israel's client list includes Cambodia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, the South Lebanon Army, India, China, Burma and Zambia. The U.S. has most recently warmed up to India and is now in fact competing with Israel for arms sales there, but the other Israeli customers remain dubious at best.

U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq

Perhaps the most troubling of all is the Israeli/Chinese arms relationship. Israel is China's second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project."

Russia seeks to triple Israeli-made drone fleet | World | Reuters

"Russia is negotiating a second purchase of Israeli-made spy drones roughly twice the size of an initial $50 million sale announced in April, Israeli defence sources said on Monday."

Also India is looking to put some Israeli avionics in the T-50UB instead of Russian. Where do you think a lot of the Israeli avionics technology comes from?

 

[Thomas]

No problem.

I'm not attacking, just annoyed by your repleted claims of countering hypersonic cruise missiles.

The lab test of Hypersonic Brahmos has done and by 2012 it will be Hypersonic version will be inducted. And u accept that Pakistan and China don't have any counter to that.

the original post by Kinetic concerning the brahmos that I responded to said that "Brahmos is costlier but it is unique and can not be destroyed by enemy air defence (as of now and next future)."

I merely pointed out that it wasn't true. I didn't say anything about Pakistan's ability. And he didn't say anything about Brahmos II. Those came into the picture later by others.

 

[fanboi]

"The real danger comes in Israel's habit of reverse engineering U.S. technology and selling to nations hostile to U.S. interests. Israel's client list includes Cambodia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, the South Lebanon Army, India, China, Burma and Zambia. The U.S. has most recently warmed up to India and is now in fact competing with Israel for arms sales there, but the other Israeli customers remain dubious at best.

U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq

Perhaps the most troubling of all is the Israeli/Chinese arms relationship. Israel is China's second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project."

Russia seeks to triple Israeli-made drone fleet | World | Reuters

"Russia is negotiating a second purchase of Israeli-made spy drones roughly twice the size of an initial $50 million sale announced in April, Israeli defence sources said on Monday."

Also India is looking to put some Israeli avionics in the T-50UB instead of Russian. Where do you think a lot of the Israeli avionics technology comes from?

There is no counter to Brahmos in the armed forces of any of Indias enemies. We have no reason to worry.

What has Israel sold to China, other than expertise on the Lavi which was a while back, before India and Israel had strong relations.

 

[faithfulguy]

I think a lot of people would sleep better if BrahMos was longer range -- though it cannot be because of treaties Russia has signed. (relating specifically to operational range) That does not mean that India cannot use what they learned through the BrahMos development (including the BrahMos 2 development) to make an entirely new cruise missile with longer range.

I think all advances should be cumulative. That is that what scientists learn from different projects should be joined together and used to improve future projects.

Obviously BrahMos is impressive in its speed, guidance and manuvering. It lacks in distance, and potentially, punch. Other missile tests give other benefits to future missile designs. Together they could be used to create longer ranged cruise missiles that still have good speed, guidance and so forth.

Whatever missile this would be called (def. not BrahMos as that name limits the missiles' characteristics to certain perameters by international law) could be a solution to a number of problems. I just don't think that it would be cheap.

So far, India has not demonstrated ability to adopt technology that was transfered to a new missile system. So it need to further develop that ability. Otherwise, its advisible to forget about spending money on TOT and use the money for something else instead.

 

[faithfulguy]

Not trying to defend whether Pakistan can defend themselves from Brahmos. I am only stating that the Brahmos is not all powerful and can easily be shot down with ESSM. And as far as a link to the statement. Simply click on the statement which is a link. or if that's to hard I guess here click on this

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does Pakistan currently have these weapons....No! but they are obtainable. Unless of course India is planning on attacking Pakistan at anytime. Also there is a high likely hood that the Frigates the U.S. is providing Pakistan with starting this year. Will have it as part of the 65 million dollar upgrade for each ship. I will have to do some research on what land based missiles are effective against Brahmos.

And who cares if Pakistan (or any country) pays cash for Missile Frigates or if another country gives it to them. The bottom line is they will not go to waste in a naval bone yard.

Also your belief that the U.S. would not allow Pakistan to have ESSM simply becuase of China won't hold up. The U.S. and Russia both sell advanced weapons to countries that are marginal allies. Look at Russia who is getting ready to sell the S400 to Saudi Arabia. Or look at Israel who we know takes our technology we give them. And sells it to other countries like China and even India. Heck we even offered India the F-35 even though you have a strong relationship with Russia.

Since these countries use sea sparrows, it shows US is willing to sell defensive weapons than offensive technology.

Australia, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Turkey and the US. I can imaging Pakistan get it soon

 

[faithfulguy]

Best thing to do is not fight a major war with each other. There is a huge danger of it going nuclear. and the more lopsided militarily India tries to make it increases the chance that it will. Then who wins? the nationalists?

Its imporant for the belligerants in South Asia to have balance as it would prevent aggressive action. I believe the best strategy for the US is to maintain balance between India and Pakistan.

 

[faithfulguy]

Why are u having complex about Indian Supersonic Brahmos missile.

1. First u claims ESSM can counter Hypersonic cruise missiles.

2. Now, u r posting that US WILL TEST IN FUTURE A HYPERSONIC MISSILE. US may be invading Mars and Jupiter in future what is the point of posting it here, should we all dance and party.

3. Nobody is denying that the US is most powerful military force in the world but this thread is about Indian missile.

4. Also, India and US are friendly countries.

I do think he should have any concern about India's Hypersonic missile as US is only about to test one. Which means that even Russia or Europeans has yet test one. It would take decades for India to develop one. However, India might obtain one sooner from the US. So I think the best way for India to obtain a hypersonic cruise missile is to get one from the US. But as I suggested above, what ever offensive weapon US provide India, US should also provide Pakistan to preserve balance between these two countries.

 

[Peace Sells no one buying]

@ faithfulguy

I like your idea, because in maintaining the balance between the two nations, it prevents one from getting (overtly) over-powerful (and that causes even more destability in the region). However, I think that it would be better to maintain the status quo by giving defensive technologies, instead of weapons that can be used for offensive strikes.

That's just my own personal opinion. I have much to learn still about how America plans on dealing with Central and South Asian geo-politics.

 

[saurabh]

I do think he should have any concern about India's Hypersonic missile as US is only about to test one. Which means that even Russia or Europeans has yet test one. It would take decades for India to develop one. However, India might obtain one sooner from the US. So I think the best way for India to obtain a hypersonic cruise missile is to get one from the US. But as I suggested above, what ever offensive weapon US provide India, US should also provide Pakistan to preserve balance between these two countries.

I know our defence programs are generally delayed, but you greatly underestimate India.

Old news, but just for reference.
domain-b.com : Hypersonic version of BrahMos undergoes successful lab test

India's showpiece supersonic cruise missile, the BrahMos, has now been successfully tested in a hypersonic version, though under laboratory conditions, according to BrahMos Aerospace chief executive officer, Dr A Sivathanu Pillai.

''We have achieved a speed of Mach 5.26 in our laboratory tests of the hypersonic version of the BrahMos. However, it will take some 15-20 tests under controlled conditions before the missile can be actually test-launched,'' Dr Pillai said.

The test was conducted at the Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which has developed the missile through a joint venture with Russia's NPO organisation.

We did need Russian help in Brahmos, but now the tech acquired can be implemented (and may be already done so) for any other cruise missile.

 

[saurabh]

Its imporant for the belligerants in South Asia to have balance as it would prevent aggressive action. I believe the best strategy for the US is to maintain balance between India and Pakistan.

India doesn't only have Pakistan as neighbor, but also China. If we make a military force comparable to China, we are already way ahead of Pakistan. We will atleast try to have a good enough deterrence against China, that still will go way above Pakistan, in near future.

 

[Kinetic]

I do think he should have any concern about India's Hypersonic missile as US is only about to test one. Which means that even Russia or Europeans has yet test one. It would take decades for India to develop one. However, India might obtain one sooner from the US. So I think the best way for India to obtain a hypersonic cruise missile is to get one from the US. But as I suggested above, what ever offensive weapon US provide India, US should also provide Pakistan to preserve balance between these two countries.

India is one of the few countries that successfully demonstrated SCRAMJET and hypersonic aerodynamics capabilities. If everything goes well you will see a 6 to 8 Mach flight of HSTDV (DRDO) and RLV-TD (ISRO) this year it self. India does not need any help from USA. Russians already done a lot of R&D on hypersonic testbeds.

 

[Thomas]

India is one of the few countries that successfully demonstrated SCRAMJET and hypersonic aerodynamics capabilities. If everything goes well you will see a 6 to 8 Mach flight of HSTDV (DRDO) and RLV-TD (ISRO) this year it self. India does not need any help from USA. Russians already done a lot of R&D on hypersonic testbeds.

India should take heed. It's conflict with Pakistan is on a hair trigger. It wouldn't take much to pull that trigger. India's numerical advantage in weapon systems. And investment in high end weapon systems could backfire. By making Pakistan feel it has no choice but to resort to nukes to counter any disadvantage. Is that really what you want?

then again maybe the world needs a limited nuclear war to see it's horrors. (yes I am being cynical and not serious)

 

[saurabh]

India should take heed. It's conflict with Pakistan is on a hair trigger. It wouldn't take much to pull that trigger. India's numerical advantage in weapon systems. And investment in high end weapon systems could backfire. By making Pakistan feel it has no choice but to resort to nukes to counter any disadvantage. Is that really what you want?

What about China? How to keep up with it?
Besides, nukes are last resort, Pak knows it. They would think a million times before going for it, under worst situation.

 

[Thomas]

What about China? How to keep up with it?
Besides, nukes are last resort, Pak knows it. They would think a million times before going for it, under worst situation.

India is currently arming itself with the intent to crush Pakistan in both numbers and high tech weapons. Do you really think Pakistan's national pride would allow for that to happen without responding in any conflict? Probably no more so then if the roles were reversed and it was India about to be crushed.