India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Joe Shearer]

On the contrary,, peace with India was always dangerous for Pakistan, it would have lead to a situation not too dissimilar to India and other south Asians states where the sheer size of India, the commonality of culture, business prospects for the rich, would have led to a situation where Pakistan sovereignty would be at risk


Enmity and conflict means freedom and independence

Another, equally brilliant analysis.

Enmity and conflict means freedom to parade before the foreigner and ask to be taken off the grey list, and plead with another set of foreigners for bail-out money.

Very convincing.

 

[arjunk]

the detailed formation-wise analysis that has been posted here.

...If you're referring to the formations of the wargame, they were limited to Indian Army units and did not include paramilitary forces.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And what sources and backing do your claims have, exactly?

Formations have been identified and their headcount displayed.

Your own experts certified the results. Go back and dig out the old posts.

You are not one of those experts.

...If you're referring to the formations of the wargame, they were limited to Indian Army units and did not include paramilitary forces.

It had nothing to do with the wargame, although the purely military figures were taken for the wargame at the outset. The numbers given gave numbers of the CRPF, the CISF and the BSF, of the J&K Police, and even the RR units.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

They have been told this any number of times. It is humiliating for them to believe it, so they revert to the famous 700,000 figure every time.

Incidentally, for the sake of your amusement, find out where this 700,000 figure originated.

Hint: not from a Pakistani source; it was a female Indian.

Pakistani media itself has changed the figures repeatedly from 6 lakh to 7 lakh to 9 lakh and so on as per requirement.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No it didn't, the target of the Indian action was the Indian public

A bullshit and dangerous drama to not overstep the line too much so as Pakistan would want to hit back hard and claim whatever you want to a fantasy driven India public




The only problem India had was it sufficiently annoyed Pakistan that it hit back and it became a PR disaster and a defeat for india

So even the restrained Indian action being more than matched by the even more restrained Pakistani reaction is now a famous victory for Pakistan.

You are easily pleased.

Whatever floats your boat.

Open source data
15 Corps and RR operate inside entire Jammu and Kashmir, both combined hardly make up 150k soldiers.
Entire Northern Command combined wouldn't even be half of what you're claiming.

Don't waste your time.

I had given the figures, down to the brigade level, and had even mentioned the pre-clash strength of XVI Corps and of the outside the Vale XIV Corps. The manpower and the exact number of RR units was given to them.

They don't want to listen. It humiliates them. Leave the fanboys to themselves, and deal with the weighty members.

The boundary of Indian and Pakistani airspace is the LoC. PAF crossed it just as deep as IAF, and that too six times more frequently at multiple locations.

It did not cross even a foot inside. Consult your own sources.

 

[Joe Shearer]

LMAO. PAF tore IAF a new pussy in broad daylight and left it like whimpering like a used whore in front of the world.

Then India realised IAF is impotent and was about to resort to using Brahmos, but India yet again pussied out when told it would be hit by 3 times as many Shaheens in retaliation.

There is no room for face-saving or redemption here, buddy. Just stick to drooling over 1971.

Apart from this schoolboyish mindset of equating bad language with convincing arguments, do you have anything material to say?

The Brahmos accident had nothing to do with all this. Even the slightest rationality would have led you to the right conclusion.

The only face-saving or redemption on display is the enormous amount of dancing around and loud whooping noises being made to create a victory out of nothing.

It is frightening that all this is taking place even as an entire country has been driven to its knees by its poor management.

Hindu raj ??? Where is said impose hindu raj ? Bangladesh was librated by indian army too and its muslim.country ruled by muslims

They probably weren't born then, and don't know enough to put together the right picture.

No one said anything about bankruptcy

That is the scary part.

But it was a IDIOT play by India that ended up just humiliating itself, recognizing that doesn't change anything, but it still should be recognized and not be allowed to be covered up by Indian fanboy bullshit

True.

Sadly, even the bare facts are distorted, not by Indian fanboys, but by their Pakistani counterparts.

 

[IceCold]

It is frightening that all this is taking place even as an entire country has been driven to its knees by its poor management.

Even to this day, a certain segment of our society is delusional and completely oblivious to reality. It's not frightening, it's terrifying considering where this has brought us.

 

[arjunk]

No reciprocal use is permitted, I take it?

Why wouldn't it be? As I said, it's up to India whether it wants to escalate to strategic weapons, test Pakistan's nuclear patience more, or give up.

Do try and avoid injecting your personal opinions into supposedly serious posts.

Do fill me in on the great victories of Balakot.

Formations have been identified and their headcount displayed.

Your own experts certified the results. Go back and dig out the old posts.

You are not one of those experts.

Even if I take your word for it - you still need close to a million soldiers to occupy all of Pakistan in your friend's fantasy scenario, and my original point still stands.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And once again of late India has hardly covered itself in glory, from the China skirmish on the LAC, to Afghanistan India has taken some serious hits

The China skirmish has been dealt with. There will never be that kind of gangster ambush.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned, our diplomatic establishment is active in that country, we are trying to help that sadly ravaged country to clamber back onto its knees, with our technical skills and our finances. There is not much of any other country's technical skills or financial support on display there. So what setback are you thinking of? A country asking us to come back, without any overtures from our side is a bad thing?

 

[arjunk]

The Brahmos accident had nothing to do with all this.

Where have I referred to the Brahmos accident?

The only face-saving or redemption on display is the enormous amount of dancing around and loud whooping noises being made to create a victory out of nothing.

I'm not creating a victory - I am rebutting your delusional countrymen who are the ones trying to create a victory out of Balakot.

It is frightening that all this is taking place even as an entire country has been driven to its knees by its poor management.

It doesn't matter what state Pakistan is in, doesn't change the fact that Balakot was no victory for India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

All these things happened

Denial won't help you

When did the PA ever move into Indian territory?

Munnabao in 65?
Kasur, leading to Asal Uttar, also in 65?
Chhamb in 71?
Longewala in 71?

You want to talk about these things happened, you are welcome. Why should we care if you wantonly make laughing stocks of yourselves? Why should we deny these inglorious events (hint - not our inglorious events; read up on what happened in each case)

Where have I referred to the Brahmos accident?

Then India realised IAF is impotent and was about to resort to using Brahmos, but India yet again pussied out when told it would be hit by 3 times as many Shaheens in retaliation.

post #241

I'm not creating a victory - I am rebutting your delusional countrymen who are the ones trying to create a victory out of Balakot.

Then I have nothing further to say on this.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It doesn't matter what state Pakistan is in, doesn't change the fact that Balakot was no victory for India.

Since my country's government has taken a stand on this subject, I would rather not do anything to contradict them. Not a nice thing to do.

 

[Sayfullah]

Pakistan isn’t a threat to india anymore.
The biggest threat is Kashmir and the rise of independent Jihad in Kashmir and in India. It’s only a matter of time before supply and logistics issues will be solved. Once started the war won’t stop till india falls.
The recent attack by PAFF mujahideen in Poonch is just a trailer of the rising independent mujahideen groups.
Now there will be no more blackmailing Pakistan to use ISI to stop mujahideen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why wouldn't it be? As I said, it's up to India whether it wants to escalate to strategic weapons, test Pakistan's nuclear patience more, or give up.

If you recall, this was a question that followed a doomsday scenario where the Indian forces were liberally attacked by short-range missiles. It is Pakistan that possesses tactical nuclear weapons. India does not have a single one. Once nuclear devices are used, whether tactically or strategically, there will inevitably be retaliation.

Pakistan has always assumed - the military and the establishment have always assumed - that any action by them will be met by a limited reaction by India. On every occasion, they found that this did not happen. It is extremely dangerous to imagine that one side may do what it wants, and the other side will bear it in a resigned manner.

Even if I take your word for it - you still need close to a million soldiers to occupy all of Pakistan in your friend's fantasy scenario, and my original point still stands.

I do not know who made that claim, that following a victory, Indian forces would occupy Pakistan, but that would be strongly opposed by every single segment - almost every single segment - of Indian society.

Pakistan isn’t a threat to india anymore.
The biggest threat is Kashmir and the rise of independent Jihad in Kashmir and in India. It’s only a matter of time before supply and logistics issues will be solved. Once started the war won’t stop till india falls.
The recent attack by PAFF mujahideen in Poonch is just a trailer of the rising independent mujahideen groups.
Now there will be no more blackmailing Pakistan to use ISI to stop mujahideen.

Please check the figures.

Infiltrators do not last more than a month.

Kashmir is not a threat. Tourist figures are at an all-time high. 90% of the tourists are Indians. Do try and work out if an income-starved resident of the Vale will put his newly generated income at risk.

The fostering of terrorist action will only endanger your own financial and international standing.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I must retire from the lists. Time for my medications and time to go to sleep. Apologies to those who wanted to discuss matters of mutual interest.