India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Joe Shearer]

There is no winning for India in a war - this is why Indian planners carefully limited their objectives to a few small chunks of territory in Eastern Pakistan which would embarrass Pakistan but not pose an existential threat to it. Although now there is a new doctrine in place which has superseded Cold Start.

What makes you think that you have a full grasp of Indian military intentions?

 

[hussain0216]

Immeasurable things like reputation don't mean anything, there are dozens of incidents in Pak military like other militaries which one can mock.

PAF barely crossed the LoC, "deep" within? IAF went inside pakistan, even crossing Pak administered Jammu and Kashmir.

PAF didn't need to do anything

India can tried to bullshit a fake military victory for it's idiot population

It was given a appropriate response

Anything else would be overkill

A Mig shot down with a Indian POW and India in panic shooting down its own helicopter was just icing on the cake


The cherry was your military holding a press conference holding up a piece of a missile that you alleged we shot at you

 

[nahtanbob]

You think any Hindu Indian wants to rule Pakistan, and take over its problems?

I cannot speak for everyone. Pakistani love to take over the world and rule it even if they were incompetent running their own country

 

[Joe Shearer]

That was a skirmish, we're talking of long term war, which requires a lot of resources, which pakistan as a failing economy can't afford and India as a booming economy can.

I leave it up to you.

The fanboys - not the sensible members - keep burying their heads in the sand about these unpleasant realities, and revert to the morale of the Pakistani man in the street overcoming all obstacles. Don't waste time. Each of them will come up with something more ridiculous.

One wants to capture Delhi through Kashmir.

Another wants to drop bombs on the Himalayan water sources, and in Indian agricultural areas, and does not think about the awful impact of a reciprocal attack, on their single source of water, and their limited acreage.

A third lingers wistfully on his pipedream of India running into a rough, Iraq-like post-victory situation, during its occupation of Pakistan, on which he insists so that he can have the pleasure of seeing his predictions come true.

None of them see brute reality, of a much stronger India facing a much weaker Pakistan, and expect the clash of two such to be favourable to them. Logic is not needed for their posts to happen.

Seriously, don't waste time.

PAF didn't need to do anything

India can tried to bullshit a fake military victory for it's idiot population

It was given a appropriate response

Anything else would be overkill

A Mig shot down with a Indian POW and India in panic shooting down its own helicopter was just icing on the cake


The cherry was your military holding a press conference holding up a piece of a missile that you alleged we shot at you

Sure, it was a famous victory.

Doesn't help you survive bankruptcy.

 

[Imran Khan]

Why don't you leave Saudi arabia and move to India or Afghanistan if you love that idea so much?



You think the Pak awam which riots in the millions when a christian is granted blasphemy bail, will accept hindu rule?

Hindu raj ??? Where is said impose hindu raj ? Bangladesh was librated by indian army too and its muslim.country ruled by muslims

 

[Joe Shearer]

There hardly are 60 to 70 thousand soldiers of RR inside the valley, some 270k along the entire LoC, wonder where does this 700k figure comes from.

They have been told this any number of times. It is humiliating for them to believe it, so they revert to the famous 700,000 figure every time.

Incidentally, for the sake of your amusement, find out where this 700,000 figure originated.

Hint: not from a Pakistani source; it was a female Indian.

 

[Imran Khan]

I cannot speak for everyone. Pakistani love to take over the world and rule it even if they were incompetent running their own country

Aysy logoon ko nashai kaha jata hai. Wo bus bakwaas kerty hain

 

[Joe Shearer]

Forget nukes, 1 shitbox IAF MiG being shot down was enough for the tone of the entire Indian populace to change overnight from rabid warmongering to "We are sem2sem saar please release Abhinandan saar respect to Pak army saar."

Is that what you think happened?

A war will be over within days. If it lasts longer than Pakistan's conventional forces can handle, Nasr will effectively wipe out the Indian military's conventional forces.

Then, the ball is in India's court - accept stalemate/defeat or face annihilation.

No reciprocal use is permitted, I take it?

A war will be over within days. If it lasts longer than Pakistan's conventional forces can handle, Nasr will effectively wipe out the Indian military's conventional forces.

Then, the ball is in India's court - accept stalemate/defeat or face annihilation.

No reciprocal use is permitted, I take it?

400,000 - 700,000 according to independent sources. 900k according to Imran Khan.

Look up the independent sources, and quote one.

Don't quote heroes who last were heard accusing the Americans of conspiring to overthrow him.

Wrong - the two outcomes are Pakistan rapidly conducts small offensives into India before the international community stops the war (the US does not want its cannon fodder for China to be hogged by Pakistan) - or the war drags on until Pakistan slowly loses its initial numerical advantage at the frontlines, leading to a nuclear war.

Has any one of you armchair field marshals figured out how your troops will move about? On foot? Swimming the Arabian Sea?

".....rapidly conducts small offensives into India....."

LOL


Meanwhile, the Indian forces lined along the borders - Pakistani forces are NOT lined up like that - will be asleep under their fans.

 

[hussain0216]

The fanboys - not the sensible members - keep burying their heads in the sand about these unpleasant realities, and revert to the morale of the Pakistani man in the street overcoming all obstacles. Don't waste time. Each of them will come up with something more ridiculous.

One wants to capture Delhi through Kashmir.

Another wants to drop bombs on the Himalayan water sources, and in Indian agricultural areas, and does not think about the awful impact of a reciprocal attack, on their single source of water, and their limited acreage.

A third lingers wistfully on his pipedream of India running into a rough, Iraq-like post-victory situation, during its occupation of Pakistan, on which he insists so that he can have the pleasure of seeing his predictions come true.

None of them see brute reality, of a much stronger India facing a much weaker Pakistan, and expect the clash of two such to be favourable to them. Logic is not needed for their posts to happen.

Seriously, don't waste time.


Sure, it was a famous victory.

Doesn't help you survive bankruptcy.

No one said anything about bankruptcy



But it was a IDIOT play by India that ended up just humiliating itself, recognizing that doesn't change anything, but it still should be recognized and not be allowed to be covered up by Indian fanboy bullshit


And once again of late India has hardly covered itself in glory, from the China skirmish on the LAC, to Afghanistan India has taken some serious hits

Once again this dies not take from the political or economic stupidity inside Pakistan but it's a reality

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wrong - the two outcomes are Pakistan rapidly conducts small offensives into India before the international community stops the war (the US does not want its cannon fodder for China to be hogged by Pakistan) - or the war drags on until Pakistan slowly loses its initial numerical advantage at the frontlines, leading to a nuclear war.

Has any one of you armchair field marshals figured out how your troops will move about? On foot? Swimming the Arabian Sea?

".....rapidly conducts small offensives into India....."

LOL


Meanwhile, the Indian forces lined along the borders - Pakistani forces are NOT lined up like that - will be asleep under their fans.

Pretty much

After that all they did was damage limitation


Multiple countries stepped in to defuse the situation


They had a chance and all that happened was they ended up with egg on their face



India little skirmish with China was very similar, took a beating and then what followed was just social media bullshit and their fanboys frankly went mental




Some people are idiots and too pessimistic
Others are idiots and too optimistic
Both they are still both idiots


A full scale conflict, when you have hundreds of millions of people, and when both sides are so heavily armed will never end in full scale conflict,it will continue to be nothing with the odd limited skirmish


Between 2019 with Pakistan and 2020 with China and since Including
Shooting down their head of military
Possibly inviting conflict because they have poor control over the command structure of Brahmins teams
Myanmar firing into India to hit terrorists
And completely being out thought in Afghanistan

I don't think India has much to be happy about





Pakistans biggest problem isn't military power it's the political and economic situation backed up by social stupidity that you can see on this forum

Also China sitting on India's neck on the LAC has curtailed Indian misadventure over the last few years

I wish you too were a Pakistani general.

You have both the intellect and the imagination to qualify.

No one said anything about bankruptcy

We noticed.

 

[hussain0216]

Has any one of you armchair field marshals figured out how your troops will move about? On foot? Swimming the Arabian Sea?

".....rapidly conducts small offensives into India....."

LOL


Meanwhile, the Indian forces lined along the borders - Pakistani forces are NOT lined up like that - will be asleep under their fans.

I wish you too were a Pakistani general.

You have both the intellect and the imagination to qualify.


We noticed.

All these things happened

Denial won't help you

 

[Joe Shearer]

"Independent sources" don't mean much, India's total Army personnel size itself is around 1.2 million, of which not all are combat soldiers and are deployed in various non-combat roles.

This, too, doesn't work.

It must be their educational system. Nothing else can account for these ways of thinking.

Nuclear weapons will never be used, your generals are smarter than fanboys on online forums

Are you sure?

Think and answer this.

Are you very sure?

According to your ex chief(s) including your Gen Bakshi,

General Bakshi, poor demented man, retired as a Major General.

The last person who headed either the PA or the IA at less than a four star general's rank was Lt. General Gul Hassan.

Pakistan (PAF) sent a formation of 24 loaded fighter jets, which was a serious act of aggression against any country. It was an ACT OF WAR against India, and Pakistan made it clear that they were ready to take the battle to any level. However, our (Indian) entire military apparatus was caught off guard and had no counter-strategy in place to counter Pakistan's response. It was evident that India did not expect such a response from Pakistan.

If you recall, the PAF discharged their loads from within Pakistani air space, and did not bother to come across.

If you recall, that is why our idiot, in hot pursuit, and out of touch with his ground controller, was shot down over Pakistani territory.

Now think through your romantic imagery.

Your forex reserves barely are just $4 billion, all of them debt money with external debt touching $130 bn. A war means collapse of pakistan as a nation and an open feast for insurgent and separatist militias on your sensitive areas.

Ouch.

 

[arjunk]

PAF barely crossed the LoC, "deep" within? IAF went inside pakistan, even crossing Pak administered Jammu and Kashmir.

Balakot is a stone's toss from the LoC - literally in artillery range.

PAF barely crossed the LoC, "deep" within?

1 - The LOC is 30km thin at Balakot, IAF stayed within AJK, jettisoned its payload hastily, and scrambled away with its tail between its legs. How is this some big achievement?

2 I really don't see why you're crying over a few kms difference in the distance from LOC between Rajouri, BG BHQ, Nairan ammo depot, Poonch, etc.

On 3 December 1971 alone, PAF penetrated 600km into India and dropped 183 bombs as deep as Agra. The operation, although deeper than any IAF strike in history (and importantly, hitting their targets), failed to achieve their objectives, just like Balakot, which forget achieving its objectives, failed even at the battlefield/tactical level.

Depth and other useless statistics mean nothing except for delusional low iq fanboys like you, objectives are the only thing which matter as they are the whole reason an op is carried out in the first place.

4. You wanted to strike a children's school and label the children as terrorists, and failed. We succesfully struck near your Brigade HQ and 5 other military targets, to send a message, and succeeded, because India did not dare escalate.

5. India's objective was to bomb a children's school, label the dead children as terrorists, and harm Pakistan's image - instead, operation bandar backfired spectacularly, and India's lies about 300 billion terrorists and F-16s were expoed, and India's credibility in the eyes of the international community has been thrown in the trash.

Stop trying to present this as some victory. India was thoroughly humiliated, defeated, and demoralised.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Are we supposed to believe a delusional Indian fanboy such as yourself or the combined journalistic and academic credentials of the field?

You cannot quote a single journalist of standing or a single academician of standing, who is not quoting sources that are themselves hearsay.

Once again, stop playing games. You have been around long enough to remember the detailed formation-wise analysis that has been posted here.

I have never resorted to ad hominem in warfare related arguments before, but you really are just stupid.

Perhaps you might find, to your surprise, that your present set of posts attract a similar opinion.

Your Operation Bandar was abortive and ineffectual, merely damaging a few trees and leaving us an intact SPICE-2000 to reverse engineer- why would we, in response, destroy your Brigade HQ with your COAS in it? It was just a show of force operation to show the world IAF still is PAF's big booty bitch. Bipin died due to his military's own incompetence later anyway, just like the 6 airmen in your heli which you all shot down and refused to admit till october.

Do try and avoid injecting your personal opinions into supposedly serious posts.

Also try not to conflate various incidents and arrive at conclusions. Stick to facts. These are to be found in the real world, outside digital playgrounds, and of late, these facts are looking rather bleak.

If Gen Rawat's death was due to incompetence then what was the Helo crash in Balochistan in which a lot of your Generals and high ranking officials were killed last year?

Silly boy!

Tera kutta, kutta,
Mera kutta, Tommy.

 

[arjunk]

Hindu raj ??? Where is said impose hindu raj ? Bangladesh was librated by indian army too and its muslim.country ruled by muslims

Pakistan is not a homogeneous entity like Bengal. Pakistan would fragment into at least 5 countries - India would annex Sindh and Punjab, KPK would be annexed by the Taliban, Balochistan would probably be annexed by Iran, because Iran had plans to annex Balochistan in 1971 in case Pakistan's military was totally defeated at all fronts.

Bangladeshis fought for months, held the countryside and martyred more Pakistani soldiers than the Indians. The Indian Army dumping 200,000 soldiers and hundreds of IAF planes in the last two weeks of the civil war would just be the final nail in the coffin.