India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Sayfullah]

Please check the figures.

Infiltrators do not last more than a month.

Weapons and mujahideen are still finding their way into IOJK.
Infiltrators last long. Your figures and knowledge about such incidents is lacking. Remember all those fidayeen attacks by PAFF on Indian bases in Poonch and Rajouri? Those were all “infiltrators”. We know how one of those incidents ended up. Your army couldn’t catch them even after 100+ days of operation.
You know the recent ambush on Indian truck in Poonch? Those were “infiltrators” too. PAFF it self is mostly “infiltrators” of which many have fought in places like Afghanistan and have prior combat experience.

Kashmir is not a threat. Tourist figures are at an all-time high. 90% of the tourists are Indians.

Because they aren’t Indian proxies. They don’t target innocents or blown them selves up in civilian areas. The fight is purely against indian occupational forces in IOJK and their stooges.

Do try and work out if an income-starved resident of the Vale will put his newly generated income at risk.

Income-staved?
This shows your lack of knowledge of Kashmir.
Kashmiris are rich. They’re probably some if the richest in the entire subcontinent.
Kashmiris still join mujahideen groups and fight Indian occupation.
Many big Kashmiri businessmen support mujahideen.

The fostering of terrorist action will only endanger your own financial and international standing.

No. Pakistan does not foster anyone. Especially not terrorists because only freedom fighters operate there.
But now Pakistan doesn’t even support freedom fighters like it used to and instead wants them to stop attacks on Indians.
But there’s only so much it can do.
That’s why I said a new wave of INDEPENDENT Jihad has started. Independent of any country.
TRF/PAFF is proof of that.
In Sha Allah Hizbul will cut its leash and follow soon.

Freedom struggle in occupied territory is allowed by United Nations conventions.

 

[Mugen]

Nothing worth celebrating, India is beating Pakistan in every other way, Pakistan will eventually be a husky of a country, then India can take its time destroying it. A salute to Napak fauj for this achievement.

 

[Imran Khan]

Nothing worth celebrating, India is beating Pakistan in every other way, Pakistan will eventually be a husky of a country, then India can take its time destroying it. A salute to Napak fauj for this achievement.

In fact its not era of military its era of economy and business where bhikaris of Pakistan have no chance to stand in front of india .

 

[Mugen]

In fact its not era of military its era of economy and business where bhikaris of Pakistan have no chance to stand in front of india .

Exactly, what good are weapons when you can't feed your army, and don't have money for fueling the war? Anyways, everyone has moved on, people are busy developing their nations while our generals are making sure we remain a third world shit hole. It's so frustrating how the world views Pakistan and Pakistanis because of this cancer in the form of GHQ.

 

[Abid123]

Exactly, what good are weapons when you can't feed your army, and don't have money for fueling the war?

Pakistan should aim for economic growth. In this world money is power and respect. So only thing we can do is focus on the development of our country. Step by step.

Military power and nukes only get you to a certain amount of power. The reason China is a superpower today is because of economic reforms that were carried out decades ago.

The generals you are mentioning are the reason why are in this fucking mess right now.

Literally no Pakistani general thinks about the long term of Pakistan's economy. Like many PDF users they are recommending the path that destroyed the Soviet Union and is destroying the US today.

All this focus on military expansion and zero focus on long term sustainability of Pakistan's economy and ecosystems (water, drought, poverty etc) will only cause a major systemic problem later on.

China has the economic power to build anything it wants and massively expand its military. Right now it’s naval expansion might be the biggest naval expansion in the history of mankind with the rate Chinese shipyards are pumping out warships.

Pakistan on the other hand is more like that one person who has a credit card (s) and is buying everything on borrowed time & money with no collateral to back it up (ie economic power).

For Pakistan to have a true war machine it needs an economy that can feed that war machine. Or else Pakistan will always be a regional power stuck in South Asia bumping heads with Indians on one hand and Afghans on the other.

 

[Imran Khan]

Exactly, what good are weapons when you can't feed your army, and don't have money for fueling the war? Anyways, everyone has moved on, people are busy developing their nations while our generals are making sure we remain a third world shit hole. It's so frustrating how the world views Pakistan and Pakistanis because of this cancer in the form of GHQ.

if you see history military was glomourised by west during colonial era . people respect and love military as military was busy to enslave nations and bring wealth .

letter west have taste the own medicine of military might in WW1 WW2 and started to control military and making them no super bring them under a secretory

but in third world after WW2 they got military which have mindset of pre-ww1-ww2 . these new countries have rouge military which want treatment of colonial era military . they think they are solution of every problem . the new countries whom controlled the military under civilians thrived such as gulf arabs india east asians china and those whom keep worshiping stupid military and glamoured then today are in painful situation Pakistan Myanmar Egypt Yemen Libya Syria Somalia Afghanistan sudan and African Latin amercans etc .

some countries also went down and then gained control like Indonesia turkey Bangladesh .


its not damn era of military long gone days of colonialism and military might . its era of IT SCIENCE ECONOMY and diplomacy . its not even matters how big military you have now ,


Pakistan is in tight grip of a colonial mindset army whom is very aggressive and want to control country . that is why Pakistan is deep in mess

just one decision from a stupid bajwa dragged this country to deep in hell is very good example to understand .

its not military era anyone want an example ??????


Pakistan with NUKES and world 7th largest military have 5th worse passport on earth . no one want Pakistanis to come in their country

uae with 56th military power on earth have strongest passport on earth 130 countries want them to comewithout visa . why ? are they scared of UAE military ? no they are not .

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Balakot is a stone's toss from the LoC - literally in artillery range.

1 - The LOC is 30km thin at Balakot, IAF stayed within AJK, jettisoned its payload hastily, and scrambled away with its tail between its legs. How is this some big achievement?

2 I really don't see why you're crying over a few kms difference in the distance from LOC between Rajouri, BG BHQ, Nairan ammo depot, Poonch, etc.

On 3 December 1971 alone, PAF penetrated 600km into India and dropped 183 bombs as deep as Agra. The operation, although deeper than any IAF strike in history (and importantly, hitting their targets), failed to achieve their objectives, just like Balakot, which forget achieving its objectives, failed even at the battlefield/tactical level.

Depth and other useless statistics mean nothing except for delusional low iq fanboys like you, objectives are the only thing which matter as they are the whole reason an op is carried out in the first place.

4. You wanted to strike a children's school and label the children as terrorists, and failed. We succesfully struck near your Brigade HQ and 5 other military targets, to send a message, and succeeded, because India did not dare escalate.

5. India's objective was to bomb a children's school, label the dead children as terrorists, and harm Pakistan's image - instead, operation bandar backfired spectacularly, and India's lies about 300 billion terrorists and F-16s were expoed, and India's credibility in the eyes of the international community has been thrown in the trash.

Stop trying to present this as some victory. India was thoroughly humiliated, defeated, and demoralised.

Dost-um, you're beating on the shadows....

Only if the PAF had stopped after 02-27! Modi said "if there were Rafaels", and the PAF has gone mad acquiring new stuffs as if there's no tomorrow! J-10s, PL-15s, AESA radars, HQ-9s, EW platforms, AI institute, JF-17 block 3s, Akinjis, TB2s etc. And, there's no end in the sight. Don't know about others, but they want everything from the Turkish defence industries even if it is a "pigeon" or a "baloon"..

 

[Rank]

So, to you, a dozen planes flying about represents modern warfare?


This is complete hallucination, and a pathetic one at that. Starting with the first line, and ending with the last.

Are you telling me that an internet keyboard warrior like you knows more than the military officers who have spent half of their lives serving their country and making these statements? lol idiot!

Didn't you lose a Mig?
Wasn't your brigade HQ targeted by PAF?
Didn't you shoot down your own heli?
Didn't you kill your own six airmen?
Wasn't your pilot in Pakistani custody and returned under the Geneva Convention rules?

Do you have the guts to deny these facts? Go and watch the first press briefing of your tri-chief(s)!

 

[Rank]

The fact that PAF avoided hitting our brigade HQs speaks a thousand words regarding pakistan's position on a war. Since they know their country can't handle a fight any longer.

Meanwhile India entered pakistan proper and did what it wanted to. Yes 27th Feb isn't a great day for IAF but thats a skirmish not a war.

Your forex reserves barely are just $4 billion, all of them debt money with external debt touching $130 bn. A war means collapse of pakistan as a nation and an open feast for insurgent and separatist militias on your sensitive areas.

Our economy has remained the same since Pakistan's inception - nothing new there. You are mixing two things and talking about them simultaneously. Pakistan has enough capability to hit India hard anytime, anywhere, and that has nothing to do with the economy.

The dynamics and mechanics of Pak India war in today's era are very different from other countries.

It's simple - Pakistan knows, as you stated, that it can't fight a long-term war with India (which is again obvious). What is Pakistan's strategy then? In case of a limited or high intensity, Pakistan will eventually resort to using WMDs, which triggers India. Your military has failed to counter Pakistan so far precisely because of this reason. Your military establishment knows that Pakistan has an economic disadvantage. Pakistan will definitely use WMDs first when its military starts losing ground, and that will push India to use WMDs too. So here is the core problem....

"Kudh tu dubay sanam tumko bhi lay dobeengay" - I hope you get the point.

PS: In 2001, after the Parliament attack, Pakistan and India had a six-month-long standoff on the borders, but India never dared to cross even an inch. This is enough to understand the mindset of your military when it comes to opening a full-fledged war against Pakistan. So, when you say "skirmish" or "LIC", it is because of you not because of Pakistan. The full fledge war with pak does not suites you more than Pakistan. Pak state knows they will eventually lose it in the long run so they have something and you don't have any thing in counter to date.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Are you telling me that an internet keyboard warrior like you knows more than the military officers who have spent half of their lives serving their country and making these statements? lol idiot!

Ah, but I don't have to know more than the military officers, whoever you are referring to. I only have to know more than you, and that's fairly easy, wouldn't you say?

Didn't you lose a Mig?
Wasn't your brigade HQ targeted by PAF?
Didn't you shoot down your own heli?
Didn't you kill your own six airmen?
Wasn't your pilot in Pakistani custody and returned under the Geneva Convention rules?

Look at the stupid first line, not your recollection of it.
Look, also, at the last line, and your amended, modified version of it.
Look, also, at my post, and notice that it mentions the first line and the last.

Do you get it at last?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Our economy has remained the same since Pakistan's inception - nothing new there. You are mixing two things and talking about them simultaneously. Pakistan has enough capability to hit India hard anytime, anywhere, and that has nothing to do with the economy.

The figures show the reality. Would you like a reminder?
As for the capability to hit India hard anytime, anywhere, do you know more than military officers who have spent their entire lives serving YOUR country, and who made statements saying the flat opposite of what you assert?
As one internet keyboard warrior to another, you really should pay more attention to General Bajwa.

From Dawn, April 29, 2023
...
Mr Mir claimed that in a meeting with around 20 to 25 journalists at the Foreign Office in 2021, the former army chief said that tanks were unable to move as there was no fuel for the movement and since the army was not capable of fighting with India, therefore, Pakistan should normalise relations with the neighbouring country.
...
In his maiden press conference earlier this week, ISPR Director General Major General Ahmed Sharif Chaudhry also admitted that there was no comparison between Pakistan and India’s defence budgets.

The dynamics and mechanics of Pak India war in today's era are very different from other countries.

Yes, that hasn't changed for 70+ years. Are you sure you want to labour the point? I should have imagined you would wish to brush the results under a borrowed carpet (Turkish? Iranian?).

 

[Joe Shearer]

In 2001, after the Parliament attack, Pakistan and India had a six-month-long standoff on the borders, but India never dared to cross even an inch. This is enough to understand the mindset of your military when it comes to opening a full-fledged war against Pakistan. So, when you say "skirmish" or "LIC", it is because of you not because of Pakistan. The full fledge war with pak does not suites you more than Pakistan. Pak state knows they will eventually lose it in the long run so they have something and you don't have any thing in counter to date.

Is that something new?
Who was the aggressor in 48?
Who was the aggressor in 65?
We were certainly not the aggressors in 71; we intervened on behalf of a province of the erstwhile Pakistan that had been brutalised.
We were also not the aggressors in 2001, nor even in 1999.

So what is your point?

Pakistan has always been the aggressor.
India has always sought peace and stayed defending her own boundaries.
Nothing has changed as far as mindsets go.
Things have changed as far as economies go. And the Pakistani economy has went, if you will pardon my unorthodox syntax.
Try to face reality, instead of brazening it out.
It was one of your prime ministers, poor martyred man, who said that his country would have the bomb, even if its citizens had to eat grass. What a thing to say! Imagine if such a sad state of affairs came to pass.
Unthinkable.
People scrabbling for a bag of wheat, the export figure down 27% from the previous month, a country afloat only on loans, unable to import vital commodities.
Unimaginable.

It's simple - Pakistan knows, as you stated, that it can't fight a long-term war with India (which is again obvious). What is Pakistan's strategy then? In case of a limited or high intensity, Pakistan will eventually resort to using WMDs, which triggers India. Your military has failed to counter Pakistan so far precisely because of this reason. Your military establishment knows that Pakistan has an economic disadvantage. Pakistan will definitely use WMDs first when its military starts losing ground, and that will push India to use WMDs too. So here is the core problem....

"Kudh tu dubay sanam tumko bhi lay dobeengay" - I hope you get the point

We got the point more than 70 years ago; that strategy is nothing new, it is as old as the country holding on to the strategy, and it has worked uniformly successfully right through. There is nothing to show that anything has changed.

Pak state knows they will eventually lose it in the long run

What a surprise.
What a shock.
Who'd a thunk it?

With nothing changed in economic terms, with - what was that shrill phrase filled with bravado? - ah yes, here it is

Pakistan has enough capability to hit India hard anytime, anywhere, and that has nothing to do with the economy.

How curious the two statements look when placed next to each other.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Our economy has remained the same since Pakistan's inception - nothing new there.

Right.

Here goes.

Compare these metrics for Pakistan's best year (choose whatever you will) and their corresponding value for the current years:

• GDP (present prices) (India today $3.74 trillion)
• GDP per capita (India projected $2,600 per capita)
• Population (India 1.4 billion)
• Budgetary deficit (India -8.87% of GDP)
• Primary Balance (India -3.56% of GDP)
• Public Debt Ratio (Government Debt/GDP) (India 83% GDP)
• Previous GDP growth in quarter (India last quarter 4.4%)

Perhaps actually seeing Pakistan's figures might bring some sobriety.

 

[Battlion25]

Is that something new?
Who was the aggressor in 48?
Who was the aggressor in 65?
We were certainly not the aggressors in 71; we intervened on behalf of a province of the erstwhile Pakistan that had been brutalised.
We were also not the aggressors in 2001, nor even in 1999.

So what is your point?

Pakistan has always been the aggressor.
India has always sought peace and stayed defending her own boundaries.
Nothing has changed as far as mindsets go.
Things have changed as far as economies go. And the Pakistani economy has went, if you will pardon my unorthodox syntax.
Try to face reality, instead of brazening it out.
It was one of your prime ministers, poor martyred man, who said that his country would have the bomb, even if its citizens had to eat grass. What a thing to say! Imagine if such a sad state of affairs came to pass.
Unthinkable.
People scrabbling for a bag of wheat, the export figure down 27% from the previous month, a country afloat only on loans, unable to import vital commodities.
Unimaginable.


We got the point more than 70 years ago; that strategy is nothing new, it is as old as the country holding on to the strategy, and it has worked uniformly successfully right through. There is nothing to show that anything has changed.


What a surprise.
What a shock.
Who'd a thunk it?

With nothing changed in economic terms, with - what was that shrill phrase filled with bravado? - ah yes, here it is



How curious the two statements look when placed next to each other.

Lmao.. You have been doing some empty mental gymnastics my friend at the back drop of some irrelevant common joe peasants who don't understand military affairs and you don't believe half of the shxt you saying nor does your generals or experts hence let me enlighten you.

All the Indians have been talking about is money while in truth they have the poorest country in the world you are carrying a heavy load of 1.5 billion and have the largest poverty in the world in fact you have more poverty then the whole world combined hence lets not go there and this will not change for the foreseeable future.. Lool saying things like the Indian gov't is rich bla bla.. The Pakistani people are rich and our gov't is not poor either we just have debts which we won't pay back anyways but as far as money goes it flows in on yearly basis hence don't misintepret things all tho not as much as we would like but it flows in..

 

[Battlion25]

I am gonna shattered the delulu of these assuming India can defeat us conventionally forget about nukes but I swear to god India can't defeat us conventionally.

- We haven't been arming ourselves merely for fun in the last couple of decades at the extent which we have done and it was purely for deterence and self-defense we have all the necessary conventional tools that is number 1.

- We have an inhospitable terrain with mountainous altitude which will mess up with the Indian ground forces like a bitch and could render them useless.

- India is in defense posture mentioned by another poster on the up already and here is why that is the case India can't commit to an offensive because if they were to commit to offensive they will have to throw in half of their armed forces or 60% to be able to yield anything and this will play right into Pakistan's tactical approach it will be like a penalty kick for Pakistan or a charity gift served right on the plate hence we will most like tactical nuke them eliminating them within seconds openning up India naked for our own storm but we won't do that until there is massive exchanges until the nuclear winter settles in we will patiently wait for the storm not to run into the same trap the Indians did.

- India will on the otherside lay in waiting for Pakistan to commit that same mistake to gather ludicrous amount of forces to storm the northern plains for India to Tactical Nuke them leading to the potential loss of half of our armed forces but we aren't that dumb hence we will goad the RSS elements to charge at us first and it is key for us to take india out of her defense posture that it currently has as it's modus operandi

- Pakistan has alot of fifth columns as this thread bears witness to or other multi-nicks hence we will happily sacrifice our population centers in order to eliminate India's population centers which will be win-win for the elite getting rid of garbage on both ends.

- We will not commit to offensive storm until we have seen the nuclear winter has kicked in and 1 billion of the population has vanished as consequence of it either via direct hit or due to lack of food resources because the crops will die and so will the livestock this will put india's resolve to the bones and believe me the Indians aren't resilient like we are and it is not even remotely close in that regard it will be a wounded and scared animal that is laying there for the taking but we have to time it right in our tactical approach. The wait before the charge should be 7-9 months after the exchanges we just let and allow India to fester with the nuclear winter while doing just small distraction limited attacks on the north making them believe as if we are attacking but hiding the big blow for later it will be equivalent to that time when Pritveraj made one single mistake which cost him the war and it was openning a gap in the middle section which is what Muhammad of Ghor was waiting for and believe me sometimes in wars of this magnitude such small decisions can decide it.