India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[hussain0216]

If Gen Rawat's death was due to incompetence then what was the Helo crash in Balochistan in which a lot of your Generals and high ranking officials were killed last year?

As far as Op Bandar is concerned, whether you agree or not that the targets were hit or not, truth is that IAF went inside Pakistan proper and dropped payload and went back as well. Pakistan for all its talks didn't hit our installations because it is aware it can't sustain a war with India.

No it didn't, the target of the Indian action was the Indian public

A bullshit and dangerous drama to not overstep the line too much so as Pakistan would want to hit back hard and claim whatever you want to a fantasy driven India public




The only problem India had was it sufficiently annoyed Pakistan that it hit back and it became a PR disaster and a defeat for india

 

[Joe Shearer]

People assuming India is rich is commiting a major intellectual fallacy

On the contrary. India is rich, her people are poor. Do try to grasp the difference. The fifth largest GDP in the world is not due to an intellectual fallacy. It is the nation that goes to war, not individual citizens, and in any case, the individual citizen gets to eat, to move about, to enjoy electricity and to live in greater comfort than some other country's citizens.

Boo hoo come high or come low you will be subdued, conquered and defeated.

How?

Will the men on white horses appear again?

This is just bombast.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

And what sources and backing do your claims have, exactly?

Open source data
15 Corps and RR operate inside entire Jammu and Kashmir, both combined hardly make up 150k soldiers.
Entire Northern Command combined wouldn't even be half of what you're claiming.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I second this and it has become a cliche people just don't realize how poverty is a pandemic in India and will take 100 years for them to exit it

It may take 200 years. Joe Shearer doesn't buy ammunition for 155 mm howitzers, or fuel for several thousand tanks. The Indian Ministry of Defence does. At the moment, it can do these things, and will face an opponent that cannot.

10 nukes into Ganga and himalyas water system and India is finished, 2-3 into its agriculture fields and enjoy your 1000 years of radio active sabji

Meanwhile the Chinese will sit still and see their water sources polluted by nuclear fall-out. Meanwhile, the tiny acreage in Pakistan, that cannot even today feed its population, will survive nuclear explosions.
Do you think before posting?

You think the Pak awam which riots in the millions when a christian is granted blasphemy bail, will accept hindu rule?

You think any Hindu Indian wants to rule Pakistan, and take over its problems?

 

[arjunk]

If Gen Rawat's death was due to incompetence then what was the Helo crash in Balochistan in which a lot of your Generals and high ranking officials were killed last year?

Pilot failure?... I don't know why you say that like it's some sort of comeback. India has a reputation of incompetency, while Pakistan has rare, one off incidents.

As far as Op Bandar is concerned, whether you agree or not that the targets were hit or not, truth is that IAF went inside Pakistan proper and dropped payload and went back as well.

The boundary of Indian and Pakistani airspace is the LoC. PAF crossed it just as deep as IAF, and that too six times more frequently at multiple locations.

Pakistan for all its talks didn't hit our installations because it is aware it can't sustain a war with India.

LMAO. PAF tore IAF a new pussy in broad daylight and left it like whimpering like a used whore in front of the world.

Then India realised IAF is impotent and was about to resort to using Brahmos, but India yet again pussied out when told it would be hit by 3 times as many Shaheens in retaliation.

There is no room for face-saving or redemption here, buddy. Just stick to drooling over 1971.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

The Pakistani perspective w.r.t the result of a nuclear war can be summarised by Zia ul Haq's threat to Rajiv Gandhi during Brasstacks - Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation, but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember - there is only one India - and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth!

Indian occupation is unaccaptable for Pakistan, especially seeing how Kashmiris and Indian Muslims are treated.

Supposing India magically stops Pakistani nukes and overruns Pakistan - then what? You have neither the morale nor the sheer strength required to quell an insurgency in Pakistan. Pakistani weapons and militants will flood into India and bring the country to its knees.

You need 700,000 troops to hold a few million people in the isolated, unarmed, demoralised valley of Kashmir, how many do you think you need to hold an entire country armed to the teeth with angry Muslim men who have nothing to lose?

There is no winning for India in a war - this is why Indian planners carefully limited their objectives to a few small chunks of territory in Eastern Pakistan which would embarrass Pakistan but not pose an existential threat to it. Although now there is a new doctrine in place which has superseded Cold Start.

90% of what was said, once again, was sold by Pakistani leaders i.e 7 lac Indian army, being Muslims, etc..

The Pakistani perspective w.r.t the result of a nuclear war can be summarised by Zia ul Haq's threat to Rajiv Gandhi during Brasstacks - Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation, but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember - there is only one India - and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth!

Just a funny statement, not related to reality.

Nothing to say for the rest..

 

[Joe Shearer]

If India ever thinks they can defeat Pakistan in modern warfare, they could have done so in the past 10 years. However, they attempted to do so four years ago and suffered significant losses and faced global-level humiliation.

So, to you, a dozen planes flying about represents modern warfare?

The following were the results of their failed attempt, officially admitted by their tri-chief in his first press briefing:

- 2X Migs lost
- One POW
- One MI (own goal)
- Six airmen killed
- Brigade HQ targeted

This is complete hallucination, and a pathetic one at that. Starting with the first line, and ending with the last.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Pilot failure?... I don't know why you say that like it's some sort of comeback. India has a reputation of incompetency, while Pakistan has rare, one off incidents.

Immeasurable things like reputation don't mean anything, there are dozens of incidents in Pak military like other militaries which one can mock.

The boundary of Indian and Pakistani airspace is the LoC. PAF crossed it just as deep as IAF, and that too six times more frequently at multiple locations.

PAF barely crossed the LoC, "deep" within? IAF went inside pakistan, even crossing Pak administered Jammu and Kashmir.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This all happened in broad daylight, without any fabricated AWACS paint Photoshop images lol. The outcome of that adventure was a severe embarrassment and global humiliation for the supposed "superpower" and its military might.... rest of everything was fairytale stories... from PAF16 shot down to whatever.. no evidence till date!

Yes, it happened in broad daylight, and, as a result, the fairy tales that normally get a life and prance about did not happen.

 

[arjunk]

Open source data
15 Corps and RR operate inside entire Jammu and Kashmir, both combined hardly make up 150k soldiers.
Entire Northern Command combined wouldn't even be half of what you're claiming.

So we should believe your analysis but discard that of the academics and journalists of the world?

You think any Hindu Indian wants to rule Pakistan, and take over its problems?

I don't know or care; I'm addressing your countrymen here who are seriously suggesting India can defeat Pakistan in a conventional war.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

LMAO. PAF tore IAF a new pussy in broad daylight and left it like whimpering like a used whore in front of the world.

Then India realised IAF is impotent and was about to resort to using Brahmos, but India yet again pussied out when told it would be hit by 3 times as many Shaheens in retaliation.

There is no room for face-saving or redemption here, buddy. Just stick to drooling over 1971.

Thats why Pakistan today has Kashmir, east pakistan, has Siachen and has occupied entire Kargil

 

[Joe Shearer]

The Pakistani perspective w.r.t the result of a nuclear war can be summarised by Zia ul Haq's threat to Rajiv Gandhi during Brasstacks - Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation, but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember - there is only one India - and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth!

Why didn't Pakistan use nuclear devices when facing public humiliation of its own, when on her knees before the US President, asking for his intervention?

What makes you think that the generals swallowed that ignominy, but will stand up straight and order mutual annihilation some time in future?

 

[CallSignMaverick]

I don't know or care; I'm addressing your countrymen here who are seriously suggesting India can defeat Pakistan in a conventional war.

It depends how you define a victory or defeat, assuming currently for Indian military the current objective seems to get back pak administered jammu kashmir and gilgit baltistan. So for Indian military capturing the said territory even if facing more losses on battlefield than pakistani side, it will be a victory. Not being able to do so will be defeat.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian occupation is unaccaptable for Pakistan, especially seeing how Kashmiris and Indian Muslims are treated.

Indian occupation of Pakistan, by a strange coincidence, is unacceptable to Indians. We would have to be lunatics to shoulder the impossible burdens that your government now shoulders.

Supposing India magically stops Pakistani nukes and overruns Pakistan - then what? You have neither the morale nor the sheer strength required to quell an insurgency in Pakistan. Pakistani weapons and militants will flood into India and bring the country to its knees.

Er, walking all the way, or taking the world-renowned Pakistan Railways?

There is no question of Indians quelling an insurgency. it will be the problem of the Pakistani government. We are not interested in regime change.

You need 700,000 troops to hold a few million people in the isolated, unarmed, demoralised valley of Kashmir, how many do you think you need to hold an entire country armed to the teeth with angry Muslim men who have nothing to lose?

Get your numbers right.

It is not that you have not been, as a forum, briefed in detail, not once, but at least half a dozen times by me, and I don't know how many times by others. This is childish, to keep repeating a false figure in the hope that it will finally be accepted due to sheer fatigue.

 

[Olympus81]

A very penetrating analysis.

Many thanks.


Perfectly correct.

The beneficiary will be Pakistan. There is nothing India wants from Pakistan, there are tons of things that Pakistan could take from us, direct, rather than playing peek-a-boo through Dubai.

Agree. But there is quite a bit of goods India would be interested in Pakistan rather than relying on kheps aka carriers via Dubai. But yes, alot of things Pakistan can import from India thus lowering the inflation numbers atleast.

Pakistan for its pitfalls is still a united nation. A nation teetering on default but a nation nevertheless and not a failed nation by any stretch of imagination. I’d say April ‘22 was a watershed moment and Pakistan is on the right trajectory.

And for people dreaming of Ghazwa e Hind, that has probably happened when Babar decided to invade South Asia. Rest are all minor details. In 2023, Pakistan is in no position to dictate anything. Lets just focus on getting the house in order.