India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Paitoo]

Guilty as charged.

Silly remarks about my objects of worship fail to move me. People who make such remarks are clearly sub-human.

Good to see you Joe! All ok healthwise?

 

[Cheepek]

India would be better served by finding solutions to the security challenges both Pakistan and China present by strengthening itself internally and pursuing non-military solutions, including diplomacy

Diplomacy has it's limitations. Diplomacy is no solution at all w.r.t Pak and China, at best it can augment your stick to get desired results. Without a position of strength, you'll get babaji ka thullu on the table.

 

[AlKardai]

Regarding Kashmir, China sitting in the north sector above Leh has become a leverage for Pakistan which wasn’t available in 1999 Kargil war.
Two third-world countries fighting on imported weapons seem more like a show off than actual fighting. Pakistan needs external assistance in a war with India and that assistance will come from China however assistance should also come from Turkish or gulf countries. Pakistan should form a military alliance with Turkey without any delay. Turkey is ahead of Pakistan in multiple aspects of defence industry and such should be leveraged by Pakistan because both countries know how western powers ditched them. Pakistan turned towards China ages ago, but that should not be the only option. Iran survived sanctions and built its industry from scratch while Turkey is building itself now.

Investment in high-level R+D would be the best root for Pakistan to follow in the long run, quite similar to that of Turkiye. This is due to the fact that the natural resources possessed by the country are in fact very low, so technological advancements should be our main strength, marking our dominance in the region.

What PA needs is a hard hitting type personality of COAS, who is emotional like Musharraf but commands respect like RS to get things done which benefit Pakistan and Army.

I think it's pretty much a matter of a dying breed.
As meritocracy begins to fizzle out and nepotism takes place (as seen with Bajwa), the quality of the COAS will only drop further.

A COAS who burns the Indian side of LOC from Siachen to Sialkot, makes alliances with friendly countries to join Pakistan’s WOT while taking out targets of interest in Afghanistan continually, then puts together a CIA type drone operation across LOC and Duran line in response to unprovoked fire from either side instead of using artillery and snipers, signs defence pacts with China and Turkey to send and receive forces in case war occurs with them or Pakistan and goes on offensive on all fronts (COIN, LOC, Intelligence/proxy wars against India and stops expansion of PA instead expands/promotes PAF and PN expansion and upgradation).

Heating up the ongoing war with India is definitely an iffy topic, especially when taking into account the economic situation. Afghanistan's slow advance will begin to render them more of an enemy as time goes on, due to the need to perform ops on their sovereign soil.

As for the PN and PAF advancement, I greatly agree.
The usage of superior technology within warfare should be focused on, rather than the usage of superior manpower, as seen in the WOT which was fought a bit too conventionally, with outdated styles of troop advancements.

Asim Munir is not going on the offensive, which is disappointing

This is actually quite annoying, seeing that he launched a large op within a week of his appointment to the position of COA

The reason of PAF and PN expansion is because all the above points I mentioned that COAS should do, can be done by PAF and PN on their own also.

The main issue is that pretty much all internal ops have been offloaded to PA. WOT and the like barely had any usage of PN's tech

Consider WOT against TTP or BLA. Give Ops green light to PAF in KPK and PN in Baluchistan with increased budget to expand men and material.

PAF starts its sorties of UAVs/UCAVs in KPK with ground forces consisting of (un used and barracked ) SSW. Leave PA completely out while second tier forces are paramilitary for sweep Ops. PAF’s C-130 were converted for ISR and Command/control roles in past too and can be deployed again.

PN uses its transport aircraft to drop SSG(N) and Marines along with its UAVs/UCAVs to take out BLA targets while Baluchistan FC conducts sweeping missions. PN has all advanced sensor and tech on its MPA aircraft’s to locate and target BLA. Completely sideline PA in Baluchistan, let PN carry all Ops.

I think the generic idea is that combined arms are not being used in the project to eradicate the BLA, and adequate technology is not being used either, whilst it is possessed.

Similarly, use PAF’s UCAVs to fire at every Indian Army position on LOC in retaliation to fire from Indian side. Discontinue using PA TOW/BS instead use UCAV ATGMs for attacking, EW pods for Jamming and anti jamming on EW aircraft’s and make temporary small air strips behind LOC for drone ops instead of flying drones from Skardu or ABs in KPK.

Surely this is an escalation that isn't really necessary?
And wouldn't maintaining this level of warfare be unfeasible, especially when taking into account the economic situation and the sourcing of aircraft parts?

 

[Joe Shearer]

PanzerKiel is not of general rank, but has always given us sound opinions and (whenever possible, within the bounds of discretion and confidentiality) good information and guidance.

Good to see you Joe! All ok healthwise?

Aging slowly but surely.

I'm learning mantras!

Investment in high-level R+D would be the best root for Pakistan to follow in the long run, quite similar to that of Turkiye. This is due to the fact that the natural resources possessed by the country are in fact very low, so technological advancements should be our main strength, marking our dominance in the region.

I think it's pretty much a matter of a dying breed.
As meritocracy begins to fizzle out and nepotism takes place (as seen with Bajwa), the quality of the COAS will only drop further.

Heating up the ongoing war with India is definitely an iffy topic, especially when taking into account the economic situation. Afghanistan's slow advance will begin to render them more of an enemy as time goes on, due to the need to perform ops on their sovereign soil.

As for the PN and PAF advancement, I greatly agree.
The usage of superior technology within warfare should be focused on, rather than the usage of superior manpower, as seen in the WOT which was fought a bit too conventionally, with outdated styles of troop advancements.

This is actually quite annoying, seeing that he launched a large op within a week of his appointment to the position of COA

The main issue is that pretty much all internal ops have been offloaded to PA. WOT and the like barely had any usage of PN's tech

I think the generic idea is that combined arms are not being used in the project to eradicate the BLA, and adequate technology is not being used either, whilst it is possessed.

Surely this is an escalation that isn't really necessary?
And wouldn't maintaining this level of warfare be unfeasible, especially when taking into account the economic situation and the sourcing of aircraft parts?

Good grief!

One more (rather sound one at that) armchair general.

We are clearly outnumbered.

 

[AlKardai]

Good grief!

One more (rather sound one at that) armchair general.

We are clearly outnumbered.

Rather, I am far from one, my good sir

I am here to learn from the people I once scorned quite heavily.

(Trust me bro, I literally know nothing)

 

[Joe Shearer]

Rather, I am far from one, my good sir

I am here to learn from the people I once scorned quite heavily.

(Trust me bro, I literally know nothing)

Sounds menacing and fierce, champ.

Excuse me while I don my full plate armour.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

What is this drivel..

Trying to paint India into something it is not. Pakistan doesn't view India as all that and sees it very much take-able. there is nothing that will change Pakistan's calculations.

Pakistan will not engage India for Jammu it is just to small of a territory to start such a large war for at that magnitude but what Pakistan is banking on is that the RSS elements will eventually seize power in India and miscalculate that is when Pakistan can re-claim all of India as direct consequence of that.

Pakistan will have no other choice in an eventful nuclear war but to go for the throat of India and by that I don't mean Kashmir which is by large irrelevant. India itself won't engage Pakistan for GB or Azad Kashmir ever because it is too small of a territory to start a nuclear armegeddon for hence the Kashmirs will remain intact and both countries won't fight each other for that territory ever because it is to irrelevant for both sides considering the scale of war it would bring.

But if an ultra-RSS extremist group seeks power in India both countries could fall upon an enlarger existential conflict and note not for both Kashmir as these are factually irrelevant for both sides when everything is considered but an existential finale conflict can't be ruled out initiated by fanatical elements if they seek power in both places and India is the more likely area where such groups will emerge from an gain power in turning the sub-continent into a nuclear ash wasteland where an existential struggle will take hold that could last for upto 10-15 years until one group enforces it's will on the other and gain absolute victory.

We could witness anywhere near 500m to 1 billion casualities in the sub-continent post that conflict.

All this economy this or economy that will go out of the window both countries will economically collapse within the conflict once population centers are wipped out but the more resilient will barely the other and weather the storm and can coop with the harsh reality a slight better.. We are more resilient then our counterpart and have better terrain against an outfall not that we will be immune to it but better suited

Seriously?? RSS?? What the hell is the connection to Pakistan?

Your remarks are an excellent illustration of what I meant when I said about being sold by the Pakistani leaders in pakistan.

I'll try to put it simply: If communists or democratic politicians rule China, what the hell happens to India, Pakistan, or any other nations?

Who cares if the military heads to Pakistan or somewhere else?

Seriously?? economic downturn?


Yes, this is the main justification for China's refusal to assist Pakistan in the event of a war between India and Pakistan, directly. There will never be a war between China and India, Both nations are better developed and don't want to go to war over a small area of land they both claim.


There are anxieties on the Pakistani side when it comes to Pakistan. Only two outcomes are possible: a Chinese rescue or nuclear war. But disregard the fact that Pakistan will vanish off the face of the earth in the event of a nuclear war due to its small geographic area. The majority of Pakistan's cities will be reduced to dust particles.

People just need to have a look at the map before talking about the nuclear war.

 

[Mr.JoJI]

10 nukes into Ganga and himalyas water system and India is finished, 2-3 into its agriculture fields and enjoy your 1000 years of radio active sabji

 

[arjunk]

Why don't you leave Saudi arabia and move to India or Afghanistan if you love that idea so much?

welcome back bhai


we hope india defeat paksitani corrupt army once for all . it should be total defeat and divide Pakistan into 5 countries

even modi can buy pakistani military for few billions . why fight ?

You think the Pak awam which riots in the millions when a christian is granted blasphemy bail, will accept hindu rule?

 

[Rank]

If India ever thinks they can defeat Pakistan in modern warfare, they could have done so in the past 10 years. However, they attempted to do so four years ago and suffered significant losses and faced global-level humiliation. The following were the results of their failed attempt, officially admitted by their tri-chief in his first press briefing:

- 2X Migs lost
- One POW
- One MI (own goal)
- Six airmen killed
- Brigade HQ targeted

This all happened in broad daylight, without any fabricated AWACS paint Photoshop images lol. The outcome of that adventure was a severe embarrassment and global humiliation for the supposed "superpower" and its military might.... rest of everything was fairytale stories... from PAF16 shot down to whatever.. no evidence till date!

 

[arjunk]

There are anxieties on the Pakistani side when it comes to Pakistan. Only two outcomes are possible: a Chinese rescue or nuclear war. But disregard the fact that Pakistan will vanish off the face of the earth in the event of a nuclear war due to its small geographic area. The majority of Pakistan's cities will be reduced to dust particles.

The Pakistani perspective w.r.t the result of a nuclear war can be summarised by Zia ul Haq's threat to Rajiv Gandhi during Brasstacks - Pakistan may possibly suffer annihilation, but Muslims will still survive because there are several Muslim countries in the world. But remember - there is only one India - and I shall wipe out Hinduism and Hindu religion from the face of the earth!

Indian occupation is unaccaptable for Pakistan, especially seeing how Kashmiris and Indian Muslims are treated.

Supposing India magically stops Pakistani nukes and overruns Pakistan - then what? You have neither the morale nor the sheer strength required to quell an insurgency in Pakistan. Pakistani weapons and militants will flood into India and bring the country to its knees.

You need 700,000 troops to hold a few million people in the isolated, unarmed, demoralised valley of Kashmir, how many do you think you need to hold an entire country armed to the teeth with angry Muslim men who have nothing to lose?

There is no winning for India in a war - this is why Indian planners carefully limited their objectives to a few small chunks of territory in Eastern Pakistan which would embarrass Pakistan but not pose an existential threat to it. Although now there is a new doctrine in place which has superseded Cold Start.

 

[Gaomayaslayer]

Jinnah was a genius. Sure we've gone through tough times but we will get through it. I see a positive future and many young Pakistanis are itching for a change.
I was in Pakistan last month, the freedom to just eat beef and enjoy the beautiful nature in Pakistan without worrying about some Street shitting Pajeets trying to lynch you for eating beef is great. All thanks to Jinnah we don't need to share our ancestral lands with ugly kafirs who despise our way of living and even what we eat.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

If India ever think they can defeat Pakistan in modern warfare, they could've done that 5 - 10 years ago... they tried 4 years ago and ended up with this result:

• 2 Migs
• 1 POW
• 1 MI (own goal)
• 6 Airmen
• Brigade HQ targetted

All done in broad daylight and officially admitted by their Tri-chief in his first press briefing on the same day of event.

Note: No fake AWACS paint Photoshop images or uses the enemy's country opposition's party statement after 3 months in defense in excuse lol

besides that...

Global humiliation
All that supwa powa military might ***** in front of the world lol

That was a skirmish, we're talking of long term war, which requires a lot of resources, which pakistan as a failing economy can't afford and India as a booming economy can.

I leave it up to you.

You need 700,000 troops to hold a few million people in the isolated, unarmed, demoralised valley of Kashmir, how many do you think you need to hold an entire country armed to the teeth with angry Muslim men who have nothing to lose?

There hardly are 60 to 70 thousand soldiers of RR inside the valley, some 270k along the entire LoC, wonder where does this 700k figure comes from.

 

[arjunk]

10 nukes into Ganga and himalyas water system and India is finished, 2-3 into its agriculture fields and enjoy your 1000 years of radio active sabji

Forget nukes, 1 shitbox IAF MiG being shot down was enough for the tone of the entire Indian populace to change overnight from rabid warmongering to "We are sem2sem saar please release Abhinandan saar respect to Pak army saar."

long term war

A war will be over within days. If it lasts longer than Pakistan's conventional forces can handle, Nasr will effectively wipe out the Indian military's conventional forces.

Then, the ball is in India's court - accept stalemate/defeat or face annihilation.

 

[arjunk]

There hardly are 60 to 70 thousand soldiers of RR inside the valley, some 270k along the entire LoC, wonder where does this 700k figure comes from.

400,000 - 700,000 according to independent sources. 900k according to Imran Khan.

Only two outcomes are possible: a Chinese rescue or nuclear war.

Wrong - the two outcomes are Pakistan rapidly conducts small offensives into India before the international community stops the war (the US does not want its cannon fodder for China to be hogged by Pakistan) - or the war drags on until Pakistan slowly loses its initial numerical advantage at the frontlines, leading to a nuclear war.