India can do nothing if there is another Mumbai

[IceCold]

Oh! you misread the thread it was in reply to the title.

Capabilities will matter only after the terrorist attacks happen which is as per title, and do not depend on Najam sethi's report. Response and counter response may be already planned.

Buts as for now it is all in air.

Yeah well i am not at all depending upon Mr. Najam's report but the capabilites of my countries armed forces which will deter and prevent our enemies from conducting misadventures like it did before.

 

[FireFighter]

I guess this thread is not about Kashmir.

Dont dream about blackmailing India on kasmir with terrorist attack within India.

The dispute is very much rooted in Kashmir. There are 1.5 million occupied Jammu Kashmiri refugees dispersed around in Pakistan some have settled in Azad Kashmir others are in upper Punjab. they;re kashmiri nevertheless. they have relatives still in jammu Kashmir. When Indian Army goes around killing innocent civilians, mistreating the women, and destroys homes in so called search operations in Jammu kashmir, do you expect these relatives of theirs to sit back and watch them? Is that what you would do?


A reference from Human Rights Watch Website on India's military oppression on Kashmir.

Total Killings * 89,742
Custodial Killings 6,771
Civilians Arrested 110,100
Structures Arsoned / Destroyed 104,866
Women Widowed 22,240
Children Orphaned 106,353
Women gang-raped / Molested 9,579
As you read these lines, India is still busy killing innocent people in Kashmir ...


Will you allow it to continue?

 

[Goodperson]

The dispute is very much rooted in Kashmir. There are 1.5 million occupied Jammu Kashmiri refugees dispersed around in Pakistan some have settled in Azad Kashmir others are in upper Punjab. they;re kashmiri nevertheless. they have relatives still in jammu Kashmir. When Indian Army goes around killing innocent civilians, mistreating the women, and destroys homes in so called search operations in Jammu kashmir, do you expect these relatives of theirs to sit back and watch them? Is that what you would do?


A reference from Human Rights Watch Website on India's military oppression on Kashmir.

Total Killings * 89,742
Custodial Killings 6,771
Civilians Arrested 110,100
Structures Arsoned / Destroyed 104,866
Women Widowed 22,240
Children Orphaned 106,353
Women gang-raped / Molested 9,579
As you read these lines, India is still busy killing innocent people in Kashmir ...


Will you allow it to continue?

I know many (Indian n Pakistanis) would like to bring Kashmir but do check the thread title.

 

[R.A.W.]

The dispute is very much rooted in Kashmir. There are 1.5 million occupied Jammu Kashmiri refugees dispersed around in Pakistan some have settled in Azad Kashmir others are in upper Punjab. they;re kashmiri nevertheless. they have relatives still in jammu Kashmir. When Indian Army goes around killing innocent civilians, mistreating the women, and destroys homes in so called search operations in Jammu kashmir, do you expect these relatives of theirs to sit back and watch them? Is that what you would do?


A reference from Human Rights Watch Website on India's military oppression on Kashmir.

Total Killings * 89,742
Custodial Killings 6,771
Civilians Arrested 110,100
Structures Arsoned / Destroyed 104,866
Women Widowed 22,240
Children Orphaned 106,353
Women gang-raped / Molested 9,579
As you read these lines, India is still busy killing innocent people in Kashmir ...


Will you allow it to continue?

I repeat
It has nothing to do with the thread
Second you cannot pressurize India with Kashmir supporting terrorism within India

 

[Peshwa]

Have you completely dismantled Dawood Ibrahim's network and organized crime in India? Has the US entirely eliminated drug cartels and other violent and organized crime from its territory?

If not, then why are you surprised that Pakistan can offer no guarantees on preventing or eliminating what is essentially 'crime', whether it is Karachi or FATA? The existence of the insurgency in FATA and its traditional autonomy and lawlessness only exacerbates the problem.

Funny that you bring up Dawood Ibrahim....who is a "State Guest" of Pakistan and lives in Defence colony of Karachi.....Yet Pakistan denies this fact....
No one in Pakistan apparantly knows D's location but somehow Pakistani high profile cricketers are marrying their Children off in D's family attended by the creme de la creme of Pakistan.....

I recently met a Pakistani bloke from Karachi who was boasting about his proximity to Dawood and how much power he weilds in Pakistan.....

So as far as "dismantling" his network......he is being sheltered by our enemies.....
He does not wield much power in Mumbai or India for that matter....so we took care of our end of business....yet Pakistan harbors a known Indian terrorist, an enemy of the state......I compare this to India giving Maulana Fazlullah a posh home in Malabar hill.....

Now I wouldnt be surprised if the 26/11 planners had some "logistical support" from Dawood.....something to consider in light of the detailed city plans and locations that the attackers were so well versed with!!!
Maybe we should add handing over Dawood to our demands as well....
But this is just my opinion.....so take it with a pinch of salt....

Lets leave it to that before the discussion get derailed......

 

[FireFighter]

I know many (Indian n Pakistanis) would like to bring Kashmir but do check the thread title.

I repeat
It has nothing to do with the thread
Second you cannot pressurize India with Kashmir supporting terrorism within India

Thank you for confirming the fact that Indian media is in complete denial about Indian attrocities in Kashmir which is the source of inspiration for the militants to continue the resistance against the occupation.


Do you guys really believe that the militants randomly wake-up at night and decide to cross the border to fight the Indian Army for no reason other than hatred for India? Have you ever wondered why militants hate Indian Army in Kashmir? Ever questioned why what inspires them to hate the Indian Army? Or Can you even question their sources of motivation to fight is in fact derived from the oppression of their brethen in Indian Held Kashmir?

You' guys are right, the rediff article doesn't even mention a single word about kashmir, and that exactly proves my point that the Indian media doesn't want *YOU* to question or discuss Kashmir. They want you to talk about militants, terrorists and Pakistan in a circular manner without even questioning the root source of tensions that is in fact oppression and attrocities in Indian Held Kashmir committed by none other than your own military.


I cant find the original article written by Najem Sethi- only find watered-down versions of the article from Indian sources.

CAN anyone post the original article written by Najem Sethi??

 

[Storm Force]

I think the author of the post should be asked the question ??????

Can Pakistan current leadership/gov.t withstand the huge international outrage globally and the cetain political isolation that could happen to pakistan if another terror groups strikes succesfully in india and kills another 200 people.

2 things came out of mumbai bombings

The first was the amount of western coverage to the bombings and second the finger pointing to PAKISTAN GOVT to do more. esp from USA...

I also agree that Manmohan Singhs Gov,t will not survive another mumbai attack if it ever happened.

I think the author needs to re think his article and what he is implying

 

[R.A.W.]

Thank you for confirming the fact that Indian media is in complete denial about Indian attrocities in Kashmir which is the source of inspiration for the militants to continue the resistance against the occupation.


Do you guys really believe that the militants randomly wake-up at night and decide to cross the border to fight the Indian Army for no reason other than hatred for India? Have you ever wondered why militants hate Indian Army in Kashmir? Ever questioned why what inspires them to hate the Indian Army? Or Can you even question their sources of motivation to fight is in fact derived from the oppression of their brethen in Indian Held Kashmir?

You' guys are right, the rediff article doesn't even mention a single word about kashmir, and that exactly proves my point that the Indian media doesn't want *YOU* to question or discuss Kashmir. They want you to talk about militants, terrorists and Pakistan in a circular manner without even questioning the root source of tensions that is in fact oppression and attrocities in Indian Held Kashmir committed by none other than your own military.


I cant find the original article written by Najem Sethi- only find watered-down versions of the article from Indian sources.

CAN anyone post the original article written by Najem Sethi??

The thread is about Mumbai. Open a separate thread for Kashmir. I can reply to your questions very well over there. So if you have anything related to Mumbai incident please post it here.

 

[Hulk]

I think by this article message is trying to be sent to India that either talk of Kashmir of we are sending more terrorist. Well it goes well with some peoples ego that they feel good to say India cannot do anything. If you all sincerely believe him I have no issue. As per me Pakistan govt or army is in no position to wage a war with India, they simply are too engaged in western front, so that is the reason that are not focusing on eastern front. Once they wrap up swat and other areas you will more attacks in India.

It will also be not good for Pakistan if anything happens in India and there is even a decent Indication of people from Pakistan involved in it. It will spoil there image even further. Look at how India and Pakistan are known in the world. India is being discussed as part of BRIC and if you search for Pakistan then you find terrorist act and what not. I hope someone in Pakistan was sincere enough to look inside and analyze where they want to head in future.

 

[paritosh]

This is a deeply flawed logic in India that the actions of half a dozen guys in Mumbai represent a manifestation of 'hate' from the entire nation of Pakistan. If the majority of Pakistan wanted war with India then the situation would be very different for both of us today. Indians need to realize that the face of Ajmal Kasab is not the face of Pakistan.

no i am not correlating the Ksab gang to the Pakistani junta.
I for long have been watching Pakistani talk shows and news channels...and I have seen a general hatred of India based on our 'occupation' of the Kashmiri territory.I have heard your senators justify spending millions on weapon systems and deals by putting the weight of the "Kashmiri cause" behind them on some of those shows.
While in my country Pakistan is hated because it is our enemy of three wars and a potential enemy for a future war.So there is no pending 'hisaab' analogous to Kashmir for us.We are watchful though.
I am not being judgmental as far as the righteousness of your/our hatred is concerned....I am merely trying to point out the difference in it's genesis on both the sides.
Kashmir does generate street-level hatred for India in Pakistan.People are willing to chip in for anything that gets the Kashmiris their freedom...and the Kasab episode in a way is a manifestation of that hatred.I haven't lived in Pakistan..it's just what a long careful time pent watching your popular media has suggested.

especially when its apparent that they still want see everything through the old lens of Indo-Pak rivalry and are ABSOLUTELY incapable of compromising on anything themselves.Even talking with Pakistan is seen as a big 'concession' in India

it is a big concession.
it's all about the public opinion.After the "Lahore Bus Yatra" Kargill followed...and the public wasn't interested in talks.
After the attacks on the Indian Parliament the public was not interested in talks.
and the same goes for the Mumbai attacks.
There have been long times of calm between these incidents and those have willed by the public too.The Public reaction is justified isn't it?When war looks like a viable option....suspension of talks is a saner option.

what India will get in the future i.e. peace with Pakistan or not depends how it behaves now.

what would India get in future considering all the options...?
and how do you define peace in our context?

 

[paritosh]

Najam sethi is an Indian agent.he often visits to India to meet his masters there.Once Musharraf told to senior journalist about Mr. Sethi "Mr Sethi was making hue and cry to start operation agaisnt Lal masjid. when the operation ended and people started critiszing me he fled away and did not respond to that antagonism". In my opinion Mr Sethi fears more from Taliban than Indian.he considers Indian as our freind which is utter crap.

it's OK to disagree with some elements in a democracy.You don't call them 'agents'!

 

[SandsofTime]

I think the author of the post should be asked the question ??????

Can Pakistan current leadership/gov.t withstand the huge international outrage globally and the cetain political isolation that could happen to pakistan if another terror groups strikes succesfully in india and kills another 200 people.

2 things came out of mumbai bombings

The first was the amount of western coverage to the bombings and second the finger pointing to PAKISTAN GOVT to do more. esp from USA...

I also agree that Manmohan Singhs Gov,t will not survive another mumbai attack if it ever happened.

I think the author needs to re think his article and what he is implying

There will be a lot of international pressure initially. But after a while the whole matter will return to hibernation, just like it has happened now. US, Britain and NATO need our help in stabilizing Afghanistan, so there is no way for any isolation to happen soon. If India wants to resolve these cross border terrorism issues, it will have to do it on a bilateral platform.

 

[Trisonics]

There is a lot of truth in this article, IMO I'm with the author when he claims "India Can do Nothing!". If there was another 26/11 consider this:

1) Does India have very good intel to attack a camp that was responsible for the attack? even other wise if India did attack, remember we are on the offensive, so will India send 10, 20, 50, 100 aircrafts? Even if it sent 10, what can they do if Pakistan intercepts them in greater numbers?

2) What if they were heavy loses and only few came back what would India do? Would "Our" morale be the same? if they bombed one small camp and lost 8 say MKIs? Would that mean we attack with 50 aircrafts? So thats a war!!!

3) Ok war it is! again we are the attackers and add the recent Chinese incursions to the scene, can we go all out?

4) Ok there was a war we won but I don't anticipate a thumping victory, if its a stalemate or even a victory with heavy loses can India still dream of a Super Power? yes there is a tomorrow but wouldn't it be wiser to get there first than to start all over. If the war did not destroy Pakistan what is the guarantee that there will not be a Mumbai after the war??

5) India's diplomocy will fall flat if foreigners were not killed in the terrorist act. What then?

6) Lastly with all the reports about our weapons over shooting their shelf lives are we prepared? Will a 100 MKIs win it for us?

The only way is for us to talk, that will start if Pakistan can do something on the lines of a confidence building act. Mere meeting and talking has done nothing, in fact most of the problems arose after they spoke (read Kargil etc etc). Pakistan has its mouth and hands full and if the Indian connection in Baluchistan is true, India would think it has an upper hand.

Its complicated and never ending but the question will remain what will India do if there is another 26/11????????

 

[Halaku Khan]

I implore you all to realize that whoever was the mastermind of this operation is the biggest enemy of Pakistan as well...

The Pakistani establishment probably does not believe that. That's the only conclusion that can be drawn from the efforts to protect the LeT, the denials of Kasab's origins.

The closeness between the establishment and the Jihadis can be seen in how a JuD activist has been appointed to head PTV News. (PTV News headed by `jihadi' blacks out anti-Talban news - Pakistan - World - NEWS - The Times of India)

Nevertheless, I am willing to consider the possibility that the Mumbai incident may have received additional backing from forces not under the control of the Pakistani establishment. It would be a step in the right direction for Pakistan to investigate and expose the sources of funding in the Gulf.

however we cannot take action without something linking Saeed or whatever with the terrorists, something which is as per standard requirement in the court of law...no matter how much we think who is responsible or what current evidence may indirectly imply...indirect implication would only result in temporary detention as it did...however it cannot be permanent...

The world has also said that GOP and ISI have nothing to do with this...

Kindly try to understand this aspect and the fact that terrorists are being fought in Pakistan without any exemption...however we cannot be blind to the requirements of the court in such sensitive matters...

Don't try to hide behind legalese. Pakistan has shown no such sensitivity to legal niceties when it comes to liquidating the TTP volunteers in Swat.

 

[Developereo]

Don't try to hide behind legalese.

It is called due process.

Despite popular perception in India, the fact is that India has not provided a complete case to Pakistan. The only thing India has "proved" in the international community is that certain individuals need to be taken in for questioning. Well, Pakistan did that and there was not enough evidence for a conviction.

We know that India wants its pound of flesh, but we are not going to punish innocent people just to please India.

Pakistan has shown no such sensitivity to legal niceties when it comes to liquidating the TTP volunteers in Swat.

TTP militants were actively firing at our army and civilians. You have Kasab, who was similarly caught red handed.

Does India have very good intel to attack a camp that was responsible for the attack?

I don't know if there are any camps. Why do you need a camp to learn to fire a few simple weapons?

And what kind of 'surgical strike' would India attempt? Is it going to send MKIs to drop bombs on a Pakistani city? India knows the Pakistani response would be swift and deadly.

The only thing India could do would be covert operations, but those take time and would not satisfy the public need for an immediate response.

The only way is for us to talk, that will start if Pakistan can do something on the lines of a confidence building act.

That is correct.
As people have pointed out, no country can provide a 100% guarantee against terrorism and, if history is any guide, there may well be another incident, unfortunately.

What India and Pakistan need is a mutual level of confidence that Pakistan is doing enough to deter such attacks. However, that is hampered by both sides because, as some Indians have admitted, India may not have shared all the supposed "evidence", for fear of compromising its informants within Pakistan.