India blocks three rivers flowing from its territory into Pakistan: report

[VCheng]

PS: Credit goes to @MilSpec for the wonderful word "whataboutery".

 

[truthseer]

Punjab is the breadbasket to the nation. In a country where 90% of the water is used for agriculture, do you really have to ask "WHY"? University of Agriculture in Rawalpindi worked on seed and crop rotation, but you know parties in Sindh and Balochistan are not interested. If you can plant channa in thal, you can plant them in Sindh, but greased palms and vested interests hold the nation back 20 years.

Quota system is a complete and utter failure, recruitment should be based on Merit.

I was wondering whether to reply, since you make some good points, but I think will do so.

Punjab is the breadbasket to the nation. Agriculture contributes 24% to the GDP. Karachi contributes 20% to the GDP. There are so many tax exemptions given in Punjab, that it's a joke.

University of Agriculture in Rawalpindi is Federal territory, not Punjab territory.

My issue was not on Quotas, which can be beneficial, but where quotas exceed the need of them. Punjab is the most developed province of them all, arguably, it is the ONLY province which doesn't need quotas.

90% of the water is used for agriculture, I agree, but isn't the reason that there's more agriculture in Punjab also because of the dams in Punjab? Which is also why Kalabagh was opposed. There were many ways to get a solution, none were taken.

It's easy to blame each other, and I appreciate you're not doing this, but there's a reason no province trusts Punjab, and that literally every province hates it. And it's not because we're jealous, or because Punjab is something better than ours. I love Sindh, and I love Karachi, and I love it more than any place in Punjab (Have been there), I'm not jealous. I just find it weird how they get all the resources and any protest is met with, "Pakistan ka hi bhala horha hai."

Another example of this is CPEC, which mysteriously passed through Punjab rather than through KPK

 

[American Pakistani]

It's not only about finances, it's about cost effectiveness, cost - benefit ratio
Any hydro-engineer will tell better

Any price that secure WATER resource is less.

 

[RescueRanger]

Another example of this is CPEC, which mysteriously passed through Punjab rather than through KPK

Did I not mention "vested interests" in my earlier posts

 

[American Pakistani]

No we are taking all the water from the eastern rivers and building (perfectly legal) run of the river dams on the western rivers.

Building dams = using water = drying Pakistan.

I'm from Sindh and many areas that were once rich for cultivation are now dry land. Indus river in Sindh has significantly dried up.

Before some year before Pakistan's independence,

After...some recent years,

 

[Soumitra]

Building dams = using water = drying Pakistan.

Run-of-river hydroelectricity (ROR) or run-of-the-river hydroelectricity is a type of hydroelectric generation plant whereby little or no water storage is provided. Run-of-the-river power plants may have no water storage at all or a limited amount of storage, in which case the storage reservoir is referred to as pondage.

 

[VCheng]

Run-of-river hydroelectricity (ROR) or run-of-the-river hydroelectricity is a type of hydroelectric generation plant whereby little or no water storage is provided. Run-of-the-river power plants may have no water storage at all or a limited amount of storage, in which case the storage reservoir is referred to as pondage.

ROR dams are allowed under IWT in accordance with its stipulations.

 

[Soumitra]

Regarding one specific Run of the River project (Baglihar Dam on Chenab)
After construction began in 1999, Pakistan claimed that design parameters of Baglihar project violated the Indus Water Treaty (full text) of 1960.
Pakistan claimed that some design parameters were too lax than were needed for feasible power generation and provided India with excessive ability to accelerate, decelerate or block flow of the river, thus giving India a strategic leverage in times of political tension or war.

During 1999-2004 India and Pakistan held several rounds of talks on the design of projects, but could not reach an agreement. After failure of talks on January 18, 2005, Pakistan raised six objections to the World Bank, a broker and signatory of Indus Water Treaty. In April 2005 the World Bank determined the Pakistani claim as a ‘Difference’, a classification between the less serious ‘Question’ and more serious ‘Dispute’, and in May 2005 appointed Professor Raymond Lafitte, a Swiss civil engineer, to adjudicate the difference.

Lafitte declared his final verdict on February 12, 2007,[5] in which he upheld some minor objections of Pakistan, declaring that pondage capacity be reduced by 13.5%, height of dam structure be reduced by 1.5 meter and power intake tunnels be raised by 3 meters, thereby limiting some flow control capabilities of the earlier design. However he rejected Pakistani objections on height and gated control of spillway declaring these conformed to engineering norms of the day. India had already offered Pakistan similar minor adjustments for it to drop its objection.

The verdict acknowledged India's right to construct 'gated spillways' under Indus water treaty 1960.The report allowed pondage of 32,580,000 cubic metres as against India's demand for 37,500,000 cubic metres. The report also recommended to reduce the height of freeboard from 4.5 m to 3.0 m.

 

[kris]

Any price that secure WATER resource is less.

That's why I asked a hydro engineer views genius.
It's not as simple as you think

 

[American Pakistani]

That's why I asked a hydro engineer views genius.
It's not as simple as you think

Like I explained you, it is water resource. Chinese are known to plan years ahead of any other country so they know the future wrt water. Better to plan and store now than to cry later. Engineering pov, everything is possible for Chinese. Look at their recent engineering advancements.

 

[Joe Shearer]

PS: Credit goes to @MilSpec for the wonderful word "whataboutery".

All credit to @MilSpec, but that is a word in common use all across the net. The most devastating and earliest use I have seen of the word is Sualeh Keen on Facebook five years ago.

 

[MilSpec]

All credit to @MilSpec, but that is a word in common use all across the net. The most devastating and earliest use I have seen of the word is Sualeh Keen on Facebook five years ago.

John Oliver did an entire piece on Whataboutism of the right in defending that scumbag roy moore.

PS: Credit goes to @MilSpec for the wonderful word "whataboutery".

full disclosure, John Oliver show stuck the word in my head.

 

[kris]

Like I explained you, it is water resource. Chinese are known to plan years ahead of any other country so they know the future wrt water. Better to plan and store now than to cry later. Engineering pov, everything is possible for Chinese. Look at their recent engineering advancements.

Dude, I am a medical grad.
So I can't explain in engineering terms.

I once spoke with engineers of Central water commission

According to them construction of a project depends on environmental impact, nature of soil, overall cost, and finally it's end usage & outcome..

Specifically to diversion of Indus, do you know that the regions which it has to traverse is highly sensitive seismic zone. So, one earthquake gonna completely make this project useless

That's why I said better to speak with an engineer.

Are there any civil/construction engineers in this forum??

 

[VCheng]

John Oliver did an entire piece on Whataboutism of the right in defending that scumbag roy moore.


full disclosure, John Oliver show stuck the word in my head.

Well, whataboutery is alive and well on PDF, regardless of origins of the word, and handing out negative ratings.

Back to the topic, I wonder how many who are berating India for shtahpping da vaater have actually read the IWT or understand its technical stipulations? No wonder it is easier to have a knee-jerk reaction and mislead the gullible without understanding the reasons why Pakistan keeps on losing international arbitration on its complaints about violations of IWT.

 

[American Pakistani]

Dude, I am a medical grad.
So I can't explain in engineering terms.

I once spoke with engineers of Central water commission

According to them construction of a project depends on environmental impact, nature of soil, overall cost, and finally it's end usage & outcome..

Specifically to diversion of Indus, do you know that the regions which it has to traverse is highly sensitive seismic zone. So, one earthquake gonna completely make this project useless

That's why I said better to speak with an engineer.

Are there any civil/construction engineers in this forum??

Chinese have built glass bridges surrounded by mountains, so what is an open river diversion means.

And like I said, water is a resource, securing which is more important than costs.