India as part of the "Greater West"

[Blossom]

I have seen the Taj Mahal and I make my statements after that only.

Oh Vinod! you really have a bad taste I have to admit.That's because when People say INDIA...the next word that slips outof their mouth is TAJ MAHAL???

 

[Vinod2070]

Oh Vinod! you really have a bad taste I have to admit.That's because when People say INDIA...the next word that slips outof their mouth is TAJ MAHAL???

Fist of all, I am not saying that the Taj is not beautiful. It is obviously.

It has also been marketed extremely well. It also has that connotations of love and romance etc. that adds to the charm.

If you and many people think it is the most beautiful building in the world, it is your opinion.

I said what I said after seeing both sides of the picture. You don't know the perfection of the structures I am talking of, their detailed depictions, their grandeur, their perfect acoustics, the thousand year old mystic that just leaps at you, the pride and the spirituality that you feel when you soak all that is something to be experienced.

I have had such an experience recently. I am not forgetting that in a hurry.

 

[Flintlock]

Oh Vinod! you really have a bad taste I have to admit.That's because when People say INDIA...the next word that slips outof their mouth is TAJ MAHAL???

My dear, the Taj Mahal is not the only magnificent structure built in India.

Many, many more of course, but I don't want to spam

 

[A.Rahman]

None of the Mughal buildings can light a candle to those beautiful structures.

A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture.

Many great monuments were built by the Muslim emperors during the Mughal era including the Taj Mahal.

The Muslim Mughal Dynasty built splendid palaces, tombs, minars and forts that stand today in Delhi, Dhaka , Agra, Jaipur, Lahore, Sheikhupura and many other cities of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The first Mughal emperor Babur wrote in the Bāburnāma:

Hindustan is a place of little charm, but a lot of ricky corn. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks

 

[genmirajborgza786]

A major Mughal contribution to the Indian
The first Mughal emperor Babur wrote in the Bāburnāma:

Hindustan is a place of little charm, but a lot of ricky corn. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks

No wonder then the mughal's had no right to rule over India with such hate in their heart if what you are writing is true Allah bless those British for throwing the mughal's out.

 

[DarkStar]

No wonder then the mughal's had no right to rule over India with such hate in their heart if what you are writing is true Allah bless those British for throwing the mughal's out.

You can't blame a central asian who's lived his life in the steppes for feeling such a thing about a newly conquered country, one that is so punishingly hot in its cilmate and profoundly different in its culture. It's true, Babur's heart was in his birthplace.

Many Bharatiyas who live in the west, wistfully remember the dusty streets of their own backyard.

But when one looks upon the progeny of Babur, the various Emperors that came after him, the love for India and their striving to make it a better place cannot be denied. Everything that they longed for, and much more did they then bring to India.

Of course, you would prefer the British policy of having boards like "No Dogs or Indians allowed" outside their clubs, rather than the Mughal policy of intermarriage and mutual harmony that they proposed and practiced.

 

[DarkStar]

Would it be sacrilege to admit that I don't think the Taj Mahal is as beautiful and amazing as it is made out to be?

And for a masoleum, with no real public benefit, it seems extravagant and might be seen as a symbol of decadence. Aurungzeb Alamgir was also of the same opinion, and stopped the construction of the Black Taj Mahal which was supposed to be Shah Jahan's mausoleum right oppposite the Taj.

Personally, I find Fateh pur sikri to be a better expression of Mughal architecture. Who knows, if it haddened been abandoned, this beautiful place would have been Bhaarat's capital today.

 

[jeypore]

A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture.

Many great monuments were built by the Muslim emperors during the Mughal era including the Taj Mahal.

The Muslim Mughal Dynasty built splendid palaces, tombs, minars and forts that stand today in Delhi, Dhaka , Agra, Jaipur, Lahore, Sheikhupura and many other cities of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The first Mughal emperor Babur wrote in the Bāburnāma:

Hindustan is a place of little charm, but a lot of ricky corn. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks

Good for him, we like our hell just the way it is.

Interestingly what this thread was about, and what it has turned into.

 

[DarkStar]

Jeypore bhai, you want to win the argument on this thread? I give it to you.

From now on, we will include Bharat in the 'Western World'.

Maybe I can help, I'm sitting in Brussels right now. I can lobby the EU to make Bharat a member.

Or how about applying to become America's 53rd state. You'll have to fence the border to stop us Pakis trying to cross to get that magic green card.

 

[Flintlock]

Babur, being from a different land and culture, would have obviously had problems adjusting to the culture, people and climate of this land - his paragraph talks about what is missing in India which he can find back home.

This is why imperialism is such a horrible thing. Can you imagine, a man who understands nothing about the land he administers? Would he not ruin it completely?
They did ruin it, but later on the Mughals began to understand a bit more about their empire, and things improved, especially during Akbar's time
Akbar was born and bred in India. He was born in a Rajput household, so he understood the local culture as well. Naturally, his policies were moderate and enlightened. Not to mention that he was illiterate - which meant that he was not confined to the Islamic straitjacket.

And don't think for a moment that its the Mughal who brought monumental architecture to India. They destroyed most of the indegenous buildings in the North, so you obviously won't find anything there, but if you go south of the Godavari river, and also into Rajasthan, and Gujarat, you'll find the great architecture of India which the Mughals had nothing to do with.

Mughals of course brought their own architecture with them. They created a fusion of Central Asian, Persian, Indian, Iranian styles.

A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture.

Many great monuments were built by the Muslim emperors during the Mughal era including the Taj Mahal.

The Muslim Mughal Dynasty built splendid palaces, tombs, minars and forts that stand today in Delhi, Dhaka , Agra, Jaipur, Lahore, Sheikhupura and many other cities of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The first Mughal emperor Babur wrote in the Bāburnāma:

Hindustan is a place of little charm, but a lot of ricky corn. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks

 

[Flintlock]

Would it be sacrilege to admit that I don't think the Taj Mahal is as beautiful and amazing as it is made out to be?

And for a masoleum, with no real public benefit, it seems extravagant and might be seen as a symbol of decadence. Aurungzeb Alamgir was also of the same opinion, and stopped the construction of the Black Taj Mahal which was supposed to be Shah Jahan's mausoleum right oppposite the Taj.

Personally, I find Fateh pur sikri to be a better expression of Mughal architecture. Who knows, if it haddened been abandoned, this beautiful place would have been Bhaarat's capital today.

Black Taj is a myth, btw - there was no such plan - the opposite bank of the Taj was an imperial garden.

Fatehpur Sikri is far more indgenous (at that time) in its architecture than the Taj - it uses the post-beam style that was common in India, rather than the arches which were used in the Islamic world. Also, its carvings and decorations were done in Hindu/Jain style rather than Persian style which was common in many Mughal tombs.

Even its planning has echoes of hindu architecture - the stepped public tanks for example, are common features in South Indian temples, and wer also build extensively by Rajas as standalone public utility works.

The Buland Darwaza has more Persian elements, along with the mosque and other purely Islamic buildings.

 

[Vinod2070]

Thx. Flintlock, I saw some of these temples on my recent trip and they were awe inspiring.

Diffixult to describe in words the feeling that you get when you see them. I highly recommend all Indian members to plan a visit to the ancient temples of Tamilnadu.

 

[jeypore]

Jeypore bhai, you want to win the argument on this thread? I give it to you.

From now on, we will include Bharat in the 'Western World'.

Maybe I can help, I'm sitting in Brussels right now. I can lobby the EU to make Bharat a member.

Or how about applying to become America's 53rd state. You'll have to fence the border to stop us Pakis trying to cross to get that magic green card.

Argument, well the post did interesting conversation about how great the mogul are. If that was the argument, then of course I admit it Mogul were great.

Well with nuclear prolifiration, bharat is becoming and catering towards the western world. Just look up which countries India is signing on too. Well maybe you should consider that, since Pakistan is already declining in that arena.

Regarding become a member to EU, first let your great muslim country (turkey sign on), then I guess will be next. Work hard for Turkey first.

53 state, which state is 52 (pakistan). And regarding Pakis trying to get green card, Mexico and Canada are already helping the pakistanies in that regard. Just go by the border you'll see some of them running across.

Thanks.

 

[ahmeddsid]

The Taj is Beautiful, even more Beautiful when seen in Movies and the Big Screen. What I wouldnt give to See the Taj, 100 years ago, sans all the pollution and noise!

 

[Vinod2070]

A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture.

Many great monuments were built by the Muslim emperors during the Mughal era including the Taj Mahal.

The Muslim Mughal Dynasty built splendid palaces, tombs, minars and forts that stand today in Delhi, Dhaka , Agra, Jaipur, Lahore, Sheikhupura and many other cities of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Yes, they did build some good buildings in the ~600 odd years that Muslims rulers controlled large parts of India.

They destroyed many times more! Just read about the Hampi ruins for a start.

The first Mughal emperor Babur wrote in the Bāburnāma:

Hindustan is a place of little charm, but a lot of ricky corn. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks

First of all, I see no need to give overdue importance to an uncultured nomad invader who left his own "beautiful" country to not only invade another but to settle down in that country that he seemed to disdain so much.

The nomads would typically not like a settled civilization. I think King Fahd tried to settle down his Bedouins and failed.

Second and more important, much of the land that Babur controlled would be in present day Pakistan and these comments would apply to Pakisatni land and peoples as much.

I see no reason why a Pakistani would be happy seeing these kind of comments even if he approves of the invasion of his own land for some obscure reasons, difficult to fathom!