India and UNSC permanent seat

[Developereo]

Yes we do wish that there is empowerment of all the people all over the world.

If everybody has equal power, then nobody has any power.

The whole point of having power is to make sure others don't have it and can't challenge you.

 

[Honor]

The link i posted On my browser it comes as INEX:Wikipedia,the free encyclopedia
& the link
http: infao5501.ag5.mpi-sb.mpg.de:8080/topx/archive?link=Wikipedia-Lip6-2/31956.xml&style

My friend why are u stuck with one source you said it was not credible so i posted other am not trying to prove this is wikepedia
The point is something else so lets stop running abt the tree

So what do you think abt other source's are they credible enough ?

The information posted by Wikipedia is by volunteer! You can use the information as reference. You cannot use it to support your claims.

Use some logic here! Do you think UNSC is a joke where the permanent seat can be awarded to anybody? Do you think so that if India decline, the seat can be awarded to China?

There will be P6 now if India is a independent country during WW2! Too bad that it is a colony of British and so it is not inside the P6.

I hope we make ourselves clear and do not distort history.

 

[rajeev]

The information posted by Wikipedia is by volunteer! You can use the information as reference. You cannot use it to support your claims.

Use some logic here! Do you think UNSC is a joke where the permanent seat can be awarded to anybody? Do you think so that if India decline, the seat can be awarded to China?

There will be P6 now if India is a independent country during WW2! Too bad that it is a colony of British and so it is not inside the P6.

I hope we make ourselves clear and do not distort history.

I agree with you. Personally, I think India should concentrate on growing rather worrying about gesturial and prideful things. Also, leave all those agencies like UN which apparently provides no value to India, SAARC with Pakistan in it, it is not worth it - create another one without Pakistan and then try to integrate the region and economy with each other and also leave NAM - it provides more disadvantages than advantages.

 

[gogbot]

True. If we had the economic , political and military strength of current China (for a comparison) then there would have been a meaning to what we are asking.

India now asking the seat only on the basis of population which is not acceptable to many not even for me an Indian.

Oh is that so?

China is the worlds second largest ECONOMY by GDP
SO u want India to to be The worlds second largest or Third largest economy first.

Lets just Examine India's case as it is.

India has the world's second largest population and is the world's largest liberal democracy. It is also the world's twelfth largest economy and fourth largest in terms of purchasing power parity. Currently, India maintains the world's third largest active armed force. India is the third largest contributor of troops to United Nations Peacekeeping missions.

India's bid is unequivocally backed by permanent members France, Russia and the United Kingdom. Though initially opposed by the Chinese due to geo-political reasons (China being an ally of India's arch-rival Pakistan and the country also having fought a brief war with India in 1962), recent history has turned China's official support for India's candidature from negative to neutral to positive, in correlation with stronger economic ties. Also, several countries like Chile, Australia, and the African Union have openly supported India's candidacy. However, India's bid is roughly opposed to Pakistan, and to a lesser extent, by the Organisation of Islamic Conference.

Although the U.S. officially does not back India's bid — for various reasons, some of which remain decidedly unclear — it has privately been eager to work with India and to support the nation (which translates to not using a veto).However Indo-American relations are currently improving from the Cold War levels of de facto derision, marked by an alliance of mutuality, recently, in March 2006, by the US President George W. Bush making a visit to India, signing a civilian nuclear power sharing programme.

Taking into account its huge population and growing economic and political clout, India is a strong contender to clinch a permanent seat. Another factor which bolsters India's candidature is the fact it has participated in several of its activities, including UN operations in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Cyprus, Cambodia, Yemen, Somalia, Rwanda , Namibia, Sinai peninsula, among others.

Frankly a vote needs to be called, for anything to be decided.
Germany, Japan and Brazil also want a seat.

A vote sooner or latter, Most likely between now and 2020.

The major opposition for India is not from the P5 members but

Uniting for Consensus (UfC) is a movement (nicknamed the Coffee Club) that developed in the 1990s in opposition to the possible expansion of the United Nations Security Council. Recently revived by Italy, it now has about 40 members aiming to counter the G4 nations' bids for permanent seats. The leaders are Italy, South Korea, Mexico, Argentina and Pakistan.

The countries that have made the strongest demands for permanent seats are Brazil, Germany, India and Japan. Japan and Germany are the UN's second and third largest funders, respectively, while Brazil, the largest Latin American nation, and India, the world's largest democracy and second most populous country, are two of the largest contributors of troops to UN-mandated peace-keeping missions.

A UN General Assembly in September 2005 marked the 60th anniversary of the UN and the members were to decide on a number of necessary reforms—including the enlarged SC. However the unwillingness to find a negotiable position stopped even the most urgent reforms meant the September 2005 General Assembly was a setback for the UN. The G4 retain their goal of permanent UNSC membership for all four nations (plus two African nations). However, Japan announced in January 2006 that it would not support a retabling of the G4 resolution and was working on a resolution of its own.


Some of the members of the Uniting For Consensus group are:


* Argentina, Colombia, Mexico - opposed to a bid for Brazil

* Italy, Netherlands, Spain - opposed to a bid for Germany (wishing for a seat for the whole European Union)

* South Korea - opposed to a bid for Japan

* Pakistan - opposed to a bid for India

* Canada - opposed in principle to expansion not achieved by consensus or near-consensus

A similar vote may be called approaching the Middle of the decade, For necessary UN reforms, Which may include the Expansion of the 2015. we shall see what 10 years of lobbying and backdoor deal making will bring.

 

[Red Dwarf]

I never liked to write long posts. But you compelled me to write one.

India has the world's second largest population and is the world's largest liberal democracy. It is also the world's twelfth largest economy and fourth largest in terms of purchasing power parity. Currently, India maintains the world's third largest active armed force. India is the third largest contributor of troops to United Nations Peacekeeping missions.

These are just numbers. Have you ever thought how weak is India in terms of its power in the world.

Lets take politics. Do we have any clear cut political strategies ?.How many friends we have in the globe?.How many countries will hear India's voice or how many countries can India control politically. Can you name at least 10.

Lets take economy. We are always saying India is the second largest growing country in the world. Can India control any country with its economic power. Can India control world trade ?. Can India control the market up and downs ?. What is the share of India in global trade ?.

Lets take military. How strong or big is India military when you watch from the outside. Can India create fear on US, Europe or at least China. Is there anything substantial which we should be proud of other than some junk military equipments bought from Russia.

We cannot be proud of our population. Its not a pride its a shame. We should be ashamed of our population. What will UN do if another country made this much population and raising the question of permanent membership.

and there are many many more

Here I'm not saying that you should be perfect in every department. But we should be in at least anything if we want raise the question of permanent membership

You must understand why US, and China are the rightful members now. Both can control others with their powers. Russia, Britain and France was powerful in the past. But they have no role in the current world scenario.

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I don't want to comment on G4. Because of the the same reason i said above. If we have to give some concessions, only Brazil is winner because they repersent the South America.

Now a question will come who will represent Africa.

Overall Patriotism is good but you must understand the realities.

 

[Red Dwarf]

self delete

 

[gogbot]

I never liked to write long posts. But you compelled me to write one.



These are just numbers. Have you ever thought how weak is India in terms of its power in the world.

Lets take politics. Do we have any clear cut political strategies ?.How many friends we have in the globe?.How many countries will hear India's voice or how many countries can India control politically. Can you name at least 10.

Lets take economy. We are always saying India is the second largest growing country in the world. Can India control any country with its economic power. Can India control world trade ?. Can India control the market up and downs ?. What is the share of India in global trade ?.

Lets take military. How strong or big is India military when you watch from the outside. Can India create fear on US, Europe or at least China. Is there anything substantial which we should be proud of other than some junk military equipments bought from Russia.

We cannot be proud of our population. Its not a pride its a shame. We should be ashamed of our population. What will UN do if another country made this much population and raising the question of permanent membership.

and there are many many more

Here I'm not saying that you should be perfect in every department. But we should be in at least anything if we want raise the question of permanent membership

You must understand why US, and China are the rightful members now. Both can control others with their powers. Russia, Britain and France was powerful in the past. But they have no role in the current world scenario.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to comment on G4. Because of the the same reason i said above. If we have to give some concessions, only Brazil is winner because they repersent the South America.

Now a question will come who will represent Africa.

Overall Patriotism is good but you must understand the realities.

Lets take economy. We are always saying India is the second largest growing country in the world. Can India control any country with its economic power. Can India control world trade ?. Can India control the market up and downs ?. What is the share of India in global trade ?.

Can India control Market up and downs. To some degree we can.
We may not be titans like US or China. But we make our Impacts.

How much economic control does the UK, France or Germany have.

Just because we are not a export oriented economy does not mean we have no control of trade.
We still trade In the Billions of dollars. We import a lot dont we. What would happen if we put curbs on those imports.

The recent free trade agreement, with the Asean countries shows, India's rising trade status.

India is seen as Big market, and large economy which is getting a lot of foreign investment. We have a considerable impact on the World economy.

We have our controls. They just are not the same as china.

Lets take politics. Do we have any clear cut political strategies ?.How many friends we have in the globe?.How many countries will hear India's voice or how many countries can India control politically. Can you name at least 10.

So are we to endeavor on achieving dominance or control over other countries now.

We establish relations, Some times they may be one sided. But they are still Bi-lateral relations.

who does Russia control, Who does Japan control.

The fact that we have so much support for the UNSC seat it self shows, our political reach. Not only do the p5 , there are a handful of other smaller nations that also support India. for UNSC seat.

Lets take military. How strong or big is India military when you watch from the outside. Can India create fear on US, Europe or at least China. Is there anything substantial which we should be proud of other than some junk military equipments bought from Russia.

So, we must now endeavor to strike fear, into the hearts of everyone. with regards to our army.

Can't we just accept the fact that not having everyone agitated over our armed forced is a good thing.

Countries dont tend to see India As an aggressive Expansionist force.
And thus we are not as threat.
Europe and Most of the world has, gone ahead and forged friendly ties with India.

Our Military was never detailed to Fight the European powers. This is not what we have set requirements and force levels for.
Indian Military pre-parres for Threats from Pakistan and China.

China's Military has been through the whole cold war been preparing to fight Nato and the US.

Analysis of the Central Intelligence Agency indicates that India is projected to possess the fourth most capable concentration of power by 2015.

In Political, economic and Military matters u seem to drawing a whole lot of comparison to China. Making the wrong assumption that if we are not doing what they are doing, Then we are not doing it right.


Moving on.

We cannot be proud of our population. Its not a pride its a shame. We should be ashamed of our population. What will UN do if another country made this much population and raising the question of permanent membership.

So will u tell the next baby that's born how ashamed you are of its existence.

In the end our high population is what has enabled us to Enjoy the high growth rates that we have today. and the Future size of our economy.

Agreed a whole lot of them Are living in poverty, and something should be done about it, and that something is not us feeling ashamed.
The Chinese did not lift Hundreds of Millions out of poverty by feeling ashamed, about it. They took action. they took ambition and hope and see what they did with it.


Frankly, Your selling us short on a lot of cases, I agree we are not perfect, But not in the sense you think we are.

India has started to emerge as a big player on a lot of fields.

And frankly the fact that a lot of people dont realize this and try to take advantage of this is the real Problem.

 

[navtrek]

The information posted by Wikipedia is by volunteer! You can use the information as reference. You cannot use it to support your claims.

Use some logic here! Do you think UNSC is a joke where the permanent seat can be awarded to anybody? Do you think so that if India decline, the seat can be awarded to China?

There will be P6 now if India is a independent country during WW2! Too bad that it is a colony of British and so it is not inside the P6.

I hope we make ourselves clear and do not distort history.

oh alright i didnt know that first time Sorry take it as a reference & what do u think abt other sources ?

 

[Red Dwarf]

In Political, economic and Military matters u seem to drawing a whole lot of comparison to China. Making the wrong assumption that if we are not doing what they are doing, Then we are not doing it right.

I know I'm comparing too with China. But China is the best benchmark we got to what we need to be or what we should be; but that doesn't mean that we should behave as China. We can have our policies and motives. But i have to say i doubt whether India got any political views. What is our view on South America, Africa, ASEAN. All we are doing when China does something. We have no firsts.

Agreed a whole lot of them Are living in poverty, and something should be done about it, and that something is not us feeling ashamed.
The Chinese did not lift Hundreds of Millions out of poverty by feeling ashamed, about it. They took action. they took ambition and hope and see what they did with it.

Why did the Chinese implemented the only child policy(forced abortions are another case).

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The economic strength is the most a country need. If it has a good economy, everything will follows. India needs to grow much more than the current situation to ask serious questions.

 

[Honor]

oh alright i didnt know that first time Sorry take it as a reference & what do u think abt other sources ?

The only source you can refer to is the official statement from a government or a recognized insitute. Other source can be used as reference.

I am impressed by your attitude You did many homework.

 

[xdrive]

There is more countries in line to get a seat on the UNSC then india

 

[Red Dwarf]

There is more countries in line to get a seat on the UNSC then india

Are you saying Australia is one among them.

 

[xdrive]

Are you saying Australia is one among them.

Actually yes. Australia is one of the founders of the UN and the UNSC. Australia has served on the council 3 times. Australia is one of the largest money contributors to the UN.

 

[gogbot]

I know I'm comparing too with China. But China is the best benchmark we got to what we need to be or what we should be; but that doesn't mean that we should behave as China. We can have our policies and motives. But i have to say i doubt whether India got any political views. What is our view on South America, Africa, ASEAN. All we are doing when China does something. We have no firsts.




Why did the Chinese implemented the only child policy(forced abortions are another case).

----

The economic strength is the most a country need. If it has a good economy, everything will follows. India needs to grow much more than the current situation to ask serious questions.

I know I'm comparing too with China. But China is the best benchmark we got to what we need to be or what we should be; but that doesn't mean that we should behave as China. We can have our policies and motives. But i have to say i doubt whether India got any political views. What is our view on South America, Africa, ASEAN. All we are doing when China does something. We have no firsts.

You do realize China is already the second most powerful nation on earth.

We cant play ball with China, head on.
Our power is similar to that of UK, France.
THE great powers.

Setting China as the Benchmark is the long term goal. You look at the growth figures in the next 20 years, India will be in the top five richest nations in the world. With that grows our military and our political Appetite.

China spent the last yew years consolidating its power, accumulating it. And is now in a position to challenge the US.

You cant just look at china and say where is India. that's not a fair comparison.
We dont do things like they do, we weren't a cold war player. we dont have a communistic government. we cant have China's advantages, the same way we cant have their disadvantages.

We Have India as it is, and what it could be.
We have economic relations all over the world.

India's growing economy, strategic location, friendly foreign policy and large and vibrant diaspora has won it more allies than enemies. India has friendly relations with several countries in the developing world. Though India is not a part of any major military alliance, it has close strategic and military relationship with most of the major powers.

Countries considered India's closest partners include the Russian Federation, Israel, Afghanistan, Nepal, and Bhutan. Russia is the largest supplier of military equipment to India, followed by Israel and France. According to some analysts, Israel is set to overtake Russia as India's largest military and strategic partner. The two countries also collaborate extensively in the sphere of counter-terrorism and space technology. India enjoys strong military relations with several other countries, including the United Kingdom, the United States, Japan, and Italy. In addition, India operates an airbase in Tajikistan and signed a landmark defense accord with Qatar in 2008.

India has also forged relationships with developing countries, especially South Africa, Brazil, and Mexico. These countries often represent the interests of the developing countries through economic forums such as the G8+5, IBSA and WTO. India was seen as one of the standard bearers of the developing world and claimed to speak for a collection of more than 30 other developing nations at the Doha Development Round. India's "Look East" Policy has helped it develop greater economic and strategic partnership with Southeast Asian countries, South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. India also enjoys friendly relations with the Persian Gulf countries and most members of the African Union.

IF you really want China to our Benchmark. Then We need to get this UNSC seat.

Its an active process global politics. we are doing a lot things diplomatically. More so in the developing world then anyplace else.

Why did the Chinese implemented the only child policy(forced abortions are another case).

And look at what they got for it. A population that will be cut in half.
A 1:3 gender in-equality. Which will further reduce population. Making them loose the massive labor force and talent pool. That got them to where they are.

Generations of people with no brothers and Sisters.

The one child policy is not the answer. You cant force people to do stuff like that. It goes against our constitution. and it violates Human rights.

you might as well start neutering people, if you think like that. Governments exist to serve people and their needs. Governments should change to the benefit of people. not the other way around.

......................................................................................................

You know red dwarf, you are saying a lot of stuff, that i was saying just a few years ago.

I knew every little about India, Even less about China.
But the more i found out the more my current view of things fell into place.

 

[SpArK]

India to revive G-4 to push for UNSC permanent seat​

India is set to rejuvenate the G-4 campaign for United Nations Security Council reforms during External Affairs Minister S M Krishna's visit to New York for the 65th general assembly of the international organisation.

The minister will attend a meeting of the Foreign Ministers of the G-4 countries on the sideline of the United Nations General Assembly. He will be representing Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. The G-4 is an alliance of India, Japan, Germany and Brazil, floated to push for expansion of the UNSC and help each other get a permanent seat. The bloc, however, had lost its vigour over the past few years, primarily due to growing India-US bonhomie and Tokyo's insistence to evolve a formula that cannot be opposed by Washington.

But both New Delhi and Tokyo recently agreed to revive the G-4 to counter the Coffee Club (or Uniting for Consensus), a bloc of Pakistan, Italy, Mexico, Argentina, South Korea and several other countries opposed to the bid of India, Japan, Brazil and Germany for permanent UNSC seats.

But Malaysia and some other Coffee Club members are expected to support India.

Krishna and his Japanese counterpart Katsuya Okada discussed the issue of reviving the G-4 process during the latter's visit to New Delhi last month. They agreed to meet other G-4 Foreign Ministers on the sideline of the UNGA in New York.

Diplomatic sources said that Japan and two other G-4 countries were looking at India to engage with the African countries to help them evolve a consensus and expediting the process to reform the UNSC.


New Delhi, however, is confident to win a non-permanent seat in the council in the election scheduled next month. Highly-placed sources said that the withdrawal of Kazakhstan from the race last January and the intense diplomatic campaigns by New Delhi over the past few months had apparently borne fruit and India was now sure of support from at least two-third of the 191 members of the UNGA.

New Delhi's confidence was further bolstered by the decision at the BRIC summit last April at Brasilia, where countries in the grouping -Brazil, Russia, India and China - agreed that India and Brazil must play a leading role at the UNSC.


During Krishna's visit to New York; India is likely to step up campaigns to ensure at least 150 votes for the election to the non-permanent seat and thus give a boost to its bid for a permanent seat.

Besides the G-4 meeting, Krishna will also be a part of the SAARC foreign ministers' gathering on September 29, G-77 foreign ministers meeting on September 24, as well as those of BRIC, IBSA (India, Brazil and South Africa) and RIC (Russia, India and China).

After his US visit, Krishna will travel to Nigeria, Egypt and Sri Lanka on October 29 and 30. By the end of October, he would have met foreign ministers of nearly 125 countries drumming up support for the non-permanent membership of India at the UNSC.

India to revive G-4 to push for UNSC permanent seat