India and NSG-News, Updates and Discussions.

[DrPuff]

What is this Chest thumping about Pakistanis? Pakistani's application was not even discussed & not even brought up by the countries that opposed India except China. As a sole nation we have right to try out best for betterment of our nation & harvest all opportunities. Except china others put up the issues like non NPT should be included with modified NSG policies. They asked NSG body to bring in such policies but China said inclusion of new member would be a disaster.They actually gave proper reason..

 

[DrPuff]

Let it be rolling baby..

 

[Hulk]

This is very good news and signifies that NSG members themselves feel that they need a person to continue working with countries in opposition to resolve the issue. It also indicates that while there is delay, signs are very positive. Both Obama and Putin has shown confidence in India getting into NSG.

 

[Dungeness]

This is bound to happen sooner or latter. India and China are mega countries with over billion population each. Both are growing economies and have global aspirations, so geopolitical rivalry is a natural consequence.

China is a totally different case,. It wanted to stop India's candidature by hook or by crook. Its intent were not to give India a space on global high table.

China maybe a different case, but it is not the one you stated. You are the only country in the world that tag its nuclear missiles "China Killer". What the hell do you expect? Let you take a free ride so you can buy cheaper nuclear material to build more "China Killer"?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

This is bound to happen sooner or latter. India and China are mega countries with over billion population each. Both are growing economies and have global aspirations, so geopolitical rivalry is a natural consequence.

As on the other countries that were against India, they can be divided into two groups. The first group were countries such as Brazil and Switzerland that were not against India but wanted to discuss first on how to open NSG for non NPT members before discussing India's candidature. The second were evangelist countries such as Austria and New Zealand that went against any form of Nuclear proliferation. I would not blame them, because their intent was different and were not against India.

China is a totally different case,. It wanted to stop India's candidature by hook or by crook. Its intent were not to give India a space on global high table.

Respectfully, I m not gonna buy it.......Just like Chinese members are surprised, I m surprised too, sometime i felt Indians hate China more than Pakistan. There are lot of better ways to engage China rather than joining SCS in pretext of "freedom of navigation". When Indians will market themselves as COUNTER WEIGHT to China and how The "world's largest democracy" is standing up to "Authoritarian regime of China". This was bound to happen.

China is a totally different case,. It wanted to stop India's candidature by hook or by crook. Its intent were not to give India a space on global high table.

FALSE.......If that was the case, you wouldn't have become member of SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) which you became recently......obviously with the consent of Chinese......no brainer to find that out...

 

[Srinivas]

It is China that will be at loss, India will align with west and compensate the loss.

The BJP government's misadventure to pit Beijing against New Delhi on a global forum will incur a huge cost.

POLITICS
| 5-minute read | 25-06-2016

ASHOK SWAIN
http://www.dailyo.in/user/11846/ashoswai
The Nuclear Supply Group (NSG) annual plenary session in Seoul ended on June 24 even without a discussion on India's membership application. Whatever the official spin, this outcome was not unexpected.

No one questions India's eligibility to be a member of this exclusive club, however the diplomatic blitzkrieg approach Narendra Modi and his foreign policy "team" took to achieve it raises serious doubts about their basic understanding of the realpolitik in the post-2008 world.

This 'event management' style of foreign policy has become too costly for India.
By not becoming a member of NSG, which was formed mainly in response to India's first nuclear test in 1974, India has not lost much per se.

Most of membership benefits have been already accrued due to the grant of an exemption by this export-control cartel, which was negotiated diligently by the UPA government in 2008.

Only tangible benefit India can get by being a member of the NSG is that it can prevent Pakistan from being a member in future.

Also read - Foolish to even think China will support India's NSG bid

Thus it is obvious to ask why Modi raised the stakes on pushing the agenda. Undoubtedly, it would have given him and his supporters the possibility to drumbeat the hype of his stature as a "global leader".

However, this "event management" style of foreign policy without a comprehensive global power analysis has become too costly for India.

Foreign policy success since the AB Vajpayee regime to de-hyphenate India from Pakistan in the global arena has taken a serious beating with Modi's misadventures.

Upon failing to get NSG membership, Modi administration tries to spin that it had managed to isolate China in Seoul and successfully created a near consensus in the favour of its application. This is merely a lie.

Only 32 members out of 48 have supported India's application. Not only China, but Brazil, Ireland, Austria, South Africa, Turkey, New Zealand too have openly opposed India's membership over the NPT issue.

Even Switzerland, in spite of Modi's recent photo-op with its President, refused to endorse India's application sans NPT.

Since 2008, India had managed to secure itself from being censured on the NPT issue, but Modi has exposed India yet again.

The list of losses for the thoughtless hoopla over NSG membership is a long one. It has enhanced Pakistan to be hyphenated with India and has also exposed the country to global pressure over signing the NPT.

The immense negative blow of this senseless jingoism in Modi's foreign policy is that it has helped China to shed its inhibition in openly coming out against India in global fora.

Some Modi supporters are trying hard to paint it as a success as India is finally playing power politics at the big table.

Playing power politics in the big league is praiseworthy, but if you do not have enough firepower to play the game it can be suicidal. China, in spite of its huge economic strength and massive domination in both conventional and nuclear military hardware, was reluctant to even enter into any confrontation with the global power system until the 2008 global financial crisis.

But Modi, ever in a hurry to prove himself, does not want to wait for the right moment.

In open confrontation with China, India has most to lose. We have a ballooning trade deficit vis-à-vis China.

In the last year, deficit figure has reached close to 50 billion dollars in China's favour. Moreover, while China exports telecommunications equipment, computer hardware, industrial machinery and other manufactured goods, India sends back mostly raw materials such as cotton yarn, gems and other precious metals like copper and iron ore.

The character of exported goods exposes the state of industrial development of exporting countries. On industrial and economic development fronts, India lags at least two decades behind China, if not more.

In economic terms, India needs China more than China needs India. While China is extremely adept in dealing with emotive issues, not affecting its bilateral commercial ties, India does not have much experience in managing this contradiction.

After open confrontation over the NSG membership, the hawkish views on China within Sangh Parivar could very likely gain traction and that might affect bilateral trade relations.

China not only has the upper hand over the bilateral trade, but also upstream control over a large portion of India's river water, originating from the Himalayas.

While India has been traditionally playing the powerful role of an upstream riparian vis-à-vis Bangladesh with respect to the Brahmaputra river, that honour has now gone to China after its decision to build five major dams on the river.

Also read - Politics behind India's bid for NSG

China has also built dams on the upper reaches of the Indus and Sutlej rivers. India is now to a large extent dependent on China for the execution of its grand river-linking plan to meet the growing water scarcity in the country.

China's influence is immense on most of India's neighbours. One doesn't need to elaborate China's control over its "iron brother" Pakistan and "ideological brother" Myanmar.

For many years now, China has also cultivated its strategic assets in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and the Maldives.

Even in Nepal, China is playing the role of a kingmaker. To counter China in the neighbourhood, India possesses a single Dalai Lama card, and that is fast losing its importance in front of China's increasing global power and influence.

It is critical that Modi and his foreign policy team make an honest evaluation of the risks attached to enticing China to an open confrontation. India has already gone ahead in cooperating with the United States to militarily contain China.

While Modi actively collaborates in the containment of China, at the same time, expecting China not to reciprocate in the same coin is not only amateurish, but also plain foolhardy.

The failure at Seoul is not a big deal. However, Modi's misadventure to pit India against China will incur the country a huge cost.

The latter's nuisance value is immense over India's goals of achieving economic development, food security as well as internal stability and regional cooperation.

Without China's support, India can never fulfill its dream of becoming a permanent member of the Security Council.

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/modi-government-nsg-india-china-ties-npt-seoul/story/1/11385.html

Not trying to influence your opinion but i believe China should never submit to psychological warfare being played by India...Indians are shamelessly trying to make China appear bad cop despite knowing others opposed their bid too. This shows a very rude and unethical on part of India. It requires tremendous confidence (shame u should read) to do such thing. I believe that China should keep pressure on India time by time. It is very necessary to put them in check. They have opposed CPEC (China Pakistan Economic Corridor) , singed Logistics agreement with US, involved in encouraging China and Pakistan separatist factions, blocking of Nepal and what not. If allowed go uncheck, they'll wreck havoc in this region. They need some nice and humble attitude and only Pakistan and China can provide them that. They need some really serious taming because they are riding too high, crossing their limits and looking down upon us.
On the other hand, We Pakistanis are going very well along with you. Will Love to see more close cooperation with you guys in future in every arena of the world.

@Chinese-Dragon @rott @grey boy 2 @GS Zhou @AndrewJin @Beast @Dungeness @beijingwalker @oprih @cirr @+4vsgorillas-Apebane @Tiqiu

For Indians...Who were jumping up and down on every thread that 47 out of 48 countries have supported India's application...it was only EVIL China...!
-------
Only 32 members out of 48 have supported India's application. Not only China, but Brazil, Ireland, Austria, South Africa, Turkey, New Zealand too have openly opposed India's membership over the NPT issue.

Even Switzerland, in spite of Modi's recent photo-op with its President, refused to endorse India's application sans NPT.

Can you list out the 16 countries which opposed India?

I can only see 5 countries in your list.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

It is China that will be at loss, India will align with west and compensate the loss.

India has, not will, already aligned with West. Thats why you're gonna seeing the benefits of it. NSG case can be termed as first episode...

All the best to NSG entry. It is no brainer to find out that once you enter in NSG, you'll block Pakistan permanently...

 

[Srinivas]

And in every inning, China still has veto power.

Which means we can always shut it down, for any reason. Hell, we don't even need to give a reason.

One day India will finally come to their senses and give a decent offering instead of trying to play tricks.

They spent so much political capital and hard cash just to fail here. When they could have just negotiated with China to begin with, but that would be too logical.

One day the time will be right for India to get the memberships as China realizes it's blunders and fall in line.

This is not a rant !

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Every Asian nation understands how China is promoting Asian Unity- so so so so clever Chinese promoting peace in South China Sea and Asean and in North East Asia and in the Indian Sub Continent .ONLY PAKISTAN DO NOT UNDERSTAND. They started liking to eating p............

Keep this debate civil and avoid derailing the thread....If you use abusive slangs on Pakistanis, I will respond in kind...I won't like if someone trys to derail my thread...

 

[danger007]

I admit that I got a bit annoyed by basically every Indian member over the past week constantly boasting about how "China can't do anything to stop India's NSG bid!" and "47 out of 48 countries support India!" and "China backed down so easily!"

Hell even the Indian media kept reporting that "47 out of 48 countries supported India" (which is course is 100% wrong).

Do these guys not understand the concept of a "veto"?

China haulted the process.. bid not rejected yet.. your posts are bit entertaining...

 

[Hellfire]

And Indian mental masturbation for Indian membership of NSG start again. I would advise my Pakistani friends to avoid NSG issue as it will never gonna happen.

Didn't know that was possible - the bold part ...!

But your advice is correct. It may/may not happen, we are already getting the benefits due a NSG member. But China has painted itself in a colour it may not like a few months down the line. As a member has already pointed out, China made public statement denying NSG will be considering Indian application - in so far it took a public stand on the day itself. For Chinese, loss of face is an insult, unlike our subcontinental two faced politicians. What occurred in NSG plenary was a loss of face for the Chinese when their claims of Indian application not being an issue proved false.

 

[ito]

China maybe a different case, but it is not the one you stated. You are the only country in the world that tag its nuclear missiles "China Killer". What the hell do you expect? Let you take a free ride so you can buy cheaper nuclear material to build more "China Killer"?

There is no such thing as China Killer in India's delivery system. You cannot blame India for some nomenclature given by some media person.

 

[Providence]

The other countries that were against India can be divided into two groups. The first group were countries such as Brazil and Switzerland that were not against India but wanted to discuss first on how to open NSG for non NPT members before discussing India's candidature. The second were evangelist countries such as Austria and New Zealand that went against any form of Nuclear proliferation. I would not blame them, because their intent was different and were not against India.

China is a totally different case. It wanted to stop India's candidature by hook or by crook. Its intent were not to give India a space on NSG.

Them first arguing that pakistan should also be part of NSG and from there on saying that India's application is not in the agenda and doing a volte face that a NPT signature is a perquisite shows China is baffled by India's rise and they clearly have no idea how to stop it.

Go back even a 2000 years. China never had any true friends like EVER. Now you know WHY !

 

[Hellfire]

@CHD Oh and I forgot to add, please understand that the majority of nations supplying the diplomatic support to India are the cartel of nations having the higher end of spectrum for technology and economic clout, collectively.

If you still do not understand what it means, suggest read the reasons for failure of USSR inspite of being a fundamentally ideal society, Russia alone having control over world's 60% reserve of fresh water, crude aplenty and minerals still untapped. Some have claimed as much as 50% of resources of world were under Soviet control. They had one of the most advanced technological base to. Yet they lost.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Decent offering to Chinese?
Don't worry, we will sure make a great offering to Chinese

India, please don't humiliate China
After all, India is a superpower. And we China is a developing country.