India and her Muslims

[Fighter488]

Q&A


‘Minorities were better represented in colonial army’


Omar Khalidi,a scholar attached to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA, has written extensively on the social and economic profile of Muslims in independent India. Among his works are Khaki and Ethnic Violence in India. Khalidi spoke to Humra Quraishi:




You have researched the ethnic and religious composition of the security forces in India. What patterns has your study revealed?
There is a clear, consistent pattern of recruitment in the army. The army’s infantry regiments are still recruited in states and areas with “martial races”, i.e. in Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and western UP. These socalled “martial races” are Hindu, Sikh and Gorkha. There are very few Muslims among the jawans and still fewer among the officers. Officers are fewer partly because Muslims’ educational level, and thus the ability to compete in the UPSC examination, is poor. Dalits are also conspicuous by their absence. Christians are well represented in the officer class. The Rapid Action Force of the CRPF has a good representation of Muslims. The composition of police is also somewhat similar. There are far fewer Muslim police officers, and within that a tiny number of IPS officers. It is only in Andhra Pradesh that Muslims are far in excess of their numbers, but only at the constable level.
Dothese factors–ethnicand religious composition of the forces – impact their functioning in a democratic republic?
The army has so far been exceptionally fair and neutral, and this must be strongly commended. It is a tribute to the rigid discipline and sense of duty in the army. The paramilitary forces’ performance is OK. It is the performance of the police that is often poor. The police’s poor performance is largely because the police does not have a free hand. It follows the orders of the chief minister or home minister. If the government wants, the police can be very effective. So, the police must be made largely free of political interference and allowed to play its role impartially. As long as the police is under the control of the political party in power, its performance is going to be influenced by the wishes of the ruling party.
Your study also focuses on the ethnic composition of security forces prior to independence.Hasthesituationchanged for the better?
I talk about the pre-independence era for purposes of comparison. Minorities were better represented in the colonial army and police than today. On the positive side, Scheduled Castes and Tribes which were not well represented in the colonial era are now better represented in the IPS cadre due to the system of reservation. Since Muslims are not well represented in the IPS, there is every justification for reservation for them – at least for a decade. A virtual middle class has come about due to the reservation system. Simultaneously, there ought to be widespread coaching for minorities to compete successfully in the UPSC examination.





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[EjazR]

When the even the Saudis want to learn who to combine modern sciences with excellence in Islamic education, they look towards India and her muslim scholars. Here are some excerpts, you can check out the source for the entire article and some beautiful pictures of Mansoora College.


Jamia Mohammadia: Islamic and Modern studies rule here with equal power | ummid.com
The Beginning
King Abdul Aziz University of Saudi Arabia had organised an International Conference in 1975. The theme of this conference was to deliberate on the possibilities to amend the existing Madrasa syllabus followed by most of the Islamic institutions and bring them in line with the modern requirements. Besides Muslim scholars and Ulema from all across the world, Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi and noted Muslim scholar Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Miya Nadvi were also present in the conference. The deliberations on the all-important issue in the conference kept Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi impatient throughout the way back to India. He consulted on the matter with Maulana Ali Miya Nadvi and then tirelessly began searching for options to establish a model Madrasa in India.

At this juncture, Maulana Mukhtar Nadvi met his friend Saith Mohammad Khaleel of Malegaon in Mumbai. The two men, though living miles away from each other, had many things in common. While Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi had the vision and plan to convert his dream into a reality, Saith Mohammad Khaleel had the required resources in plenty. Simultaneously, he proved a powerful backer and a great motivator for Maulana Nadvi. The combination worked and what Muslim leaders and Islamic scholars dreamt at King Abdul Aziz University, Saudi Arabia in 1975, became a reality thousands of miles away in Malegaon in 1979.

Mansoora
A man with a vision, Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi was also a master in doing things in novel ways. Hence for his dream Education Institute - running on a unique syllabus based on Islamic as well as Modern Education pattern and stretched on 56 acres of land touching the banks of Girna River along the Mumbai-Agra road in Malegaon – chose Mansoora as its name.

Mansoora, as Maulana Mukhtar Nadvi used to recall, in ninth century was a historic locality in Baghdad. Iraq’s capital Baghdad during that time was the source of wisdom, knowledge and erudition, and preferred destination for scholars and academicians. People from all across the globe seeking knowledge and wisdom used to converge at Baghdad. In the heart of the city and centre of all academic activities in Baghdad was Mansoora. Thousand years later, Mansoora took a rebirth in Malegaon – a small town in North Maharashtra predominated by Muslim population.

A Model Curriculum
For the Curriculum and syllabus to be followed at Jamia Mohammadia for boys and Kulliyah Aisha Siddiqua for girls – as he named the first two institutions founded by him in Malegaon - Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi worked on two levels.

Realising that the existing Dars-e-Nizami - normally followed by the Mada’ris (plural of Madrasa) in India - is not sufficient to meet the emerging challenges and requirements of even the Islamic studies, he after consulting renowned academicians and scholars of the time introduced suitable and needful amendments in it.

At the same time, he introduced the modern subjects like Science and Mathematics, and also the languages like English, Hindi and Marathi for students that included boys and girls both. Finally, the curriculum that came into being out of his efforts was a perfect combination of Islamic and Modern Education pattern.

Simultaneously, he meticulously worked for obtaining the all-important affiliation and recognition from the state education board, and also from the Indian and foreign universities. Thanks to the determination, commitment and speed with which he worked, both of his institutes were very soon recognised by the Mahrashtra State Secondary Board and also by Jamiah Islamia, Madinah Munawwarah, Saudi Arabia and Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi.

Mansoora: A force to reckon with
Due to the hard-work it needed on the part of the students as well as the teachers, the curriculum was really tough when introduced in the beginning. However once it was on a roll, results started pouring in consistently and with surprising rewards. The Jamia students – both boys and girls, soon found them not only scoring excellently in Islamic studies but also coming with flying colors in state board exams.

However, the brightest moment for Mansoora came in 2008-09 when one of its students Abdur Rehman along with sixteen others created history at Jamia Islamia Madinah Munawwara, Saudi Arabia. While Abdur Rehman topped his faculty and bagged student of the year award, sixteen others from Mansoora cleared the University exams with distinction. The results were so impressive that Jamiah Islamia sent its Head of the Education Department to Mansoora. He specially traveled from Saudi Arabia to Malegaon to have a personal and first-hand account of the way students are taught.

JMES goes National

After he succeeded in his mission, Maulana Mukhtar Ahmad Nadvi invited people from various places – specially those who were part of the deliberations with him at King Abdul Aziz University in 1975 – to have the first hand experience of what was dreamt in that conference. At the same time, while extending all supports, he urged them to replicate the model in their localities. However, when he found some of them wary and some others hesitant, he took it upon himself to do the job. Soon JMES spread its wings to other parts of the country and established branches at Maunath Bhanjan, Aakot, Dhule, Bangalore, Mahesla and Mewaat – all running on the Mansoora pattern and affiliated to their respective state boards.

 

[mijanur]

is dr zakir nayik indian???

 

[EjazR]

^^

Yes, he is an ethnic marathi based in mumbai. You can figure that out by his last name "Naik", which is title commanly used among konkani marathas

 

[piyarapakistani]

hindu god river ganga is one of the most polluted rivers on earth.
and imagine there god cant clean its on self.
hindu belief on penthism that means they considered everything as god.
there is no comparison between a muslim and a hindu.
hinduism just a regional myth religion made by nomadic aryans to rule darvindians.
hinduism got caste systems and the lower mosts shudars the untoucables are considered impure and are not even tpuched by upper catse hindus.
islam dont have any religious caste system and in islam every black white tall small every person of any ethnic back ground is equal.

 

[abdul1]

hindu god river ganga is one of the most polluted rivers on earth.
and imagine there god cant clean its on self.
hindu belief on penthism that means they considered everything as god.
there is no comparison between a muslim and a hindu.
hinduism just a regional myth religion made by nomadic aryans to rule darvindians.
hinduism got caste systems and the lower mosts shudars the untoucables are considered impure and are not even tpuched by upper catse hindus.
islam dont have any religious caste system and in islam every black white tall small every person of any ethnic back ground is equal.

Well that's plain wrong then what is shia, sunni..........

 

[vsdoc]

To take it further ....

Why have Shias and Sunnis been at each others throats since time immemorial (in a young Islamic context that is)?

Why do both consider the Ahmadis as kafirs?

Why did Iran and Iraq fight a decade long bloody war?

Why are the Arabs and the Iranians blood enemies?

Why are the chilyas and the khojas looked down on as less than Muslim?

Why are bohris given step-motherly treatment by the "hard-core" muslims?

Why do the arabs consider themselves to be the only blue blooded muslims and the muslims of the entire sub-continent as hindu-blood tainted lesser (barely tolerated) upstarts of the ummah?

Why do the pakistani muslims look down on Indian muslims as unislamic secular hindu-loving hindu-marrying booze-drinking pork-eating gambling/whoring immodestly draped embarrassments to Islam ..... who let them down in a mortal blow at the time of partition?

Why did pakistani muslims refer to Bangladeshi muslims as sons of pigs?

Why did "native" pakistani muslims look down on and persecute (to this day the violence and unrest continues) those coming from the "Indian" side as mohajirs?

Cheers, Doc

 

[jarnee]

To add:
Look within yourself..look what your Punjabi elites have done to Altaf hussain.
Your country is ruled by feudal lords.. Jagirdar,Sarmayadar, Wadera's etc.

Only and only Punjabi's wanted Pakistan and integated Mr. Jinnah & Co. to Part away. Bec. they knew India after independence will bring Land reform and abolish Zamindari system.
I am not sure how much land reform has happened in Pakistan to the date.

 

[Hari]

Dear Pakistani friends,

Believe it or not. An average muslim is safer in India than a person in Pakistan. Their condition is better in India than in Pakistan. Of course there are several people with communal mindset but overall there is not much problems here

 

[Hari]

An article from Irfan Hussain,

Of late, there has been much controversy over the two-nation theory sparked off by Altaf Hussain. The MQM chief is reported to have asserted in India that this theory was invalid.

I have often disagreed strongly with the self-exiled leader, but find his secular, anti-feudal stance refreshing. So while many voices in the mainstream media have condemned some of his statements as inflammatory and even traitorous, they do merit serious examination.

Let us start with the basics: a theory is a working hypothesis until it is proved or disproved by experience and experiment in the field and in the laboratory.

In essence, the two-nation theory enunciated by the top Muslim League leadership as the ideological basis for the demand for Pakistan stated that as Muslims and Hindus were two different nations, they needed separate homelands.

Mr Jinnah is on record as saying that as the two communities spoke different languages, ate different food, had different customs, and, above all, followed different religions, they constituted two entirely different nations.

The outcome of this theory and the political and territorial demand that emanated from it was the creation of Pakistan. Obviously, history cannot be rewritten, but it is still useful to examine the theory and see whether it stands up to analysis based on the experience gained since it was first articulated.

I have been mulling over this theme over the last week while travelling around in South India. Here, I have met a number of Muslims, and in their patchy Hindi and English, they have made it clear that they are completely at home, and get on very well with their Hindu and Christian neighbours.

This morning, a Sunday, I was on a boat in the back waters of Kerala, and could see the minarets of a mosque among the coconut palms. But the sound I heard was the sound of bells from a nearby church. A day earlier, our group drove past a large Hindu congregation. And just in case some readers feel sorry for the Muslims of Kerala, let me remind them that the oldest continuous community of Muslims in the subcontinent live right here.

They have integrated seamlessly into the fabric of the area, and do not see their faith as an issue. Their Hindu and Christian neighbours visit them at Eid, just as they celebrate Holi and Christmas with their friends.

How can these different communities be separated? They speak the same language, are ethnically of the same stock, and while orthodox Hindus may be vegetarians, they cook in the identical, delicious Kerala style. Until you ask them directly, it is impossible to tell who is Hindu, who is Muslim and who is Christian.

This brings us to a fundamental question: what defines a person? Surely not religion alone, although it is an important factor. Education, upbringing, geography, class and genes are just a few of the ingredients making up the complex matrix that is a human being.

Invariably, where we grow up is largely a matter of chance. A universal genetic lottery determines the circumstances in which we grow up. We cannot help being born black, white or yellow, any more than we can decide the faith into which we are born. And once born, we often have little control over the future.

Since the whole business of life is so random, can we say that we are superior to anybody else? Or so different that we cannot live next to them? Because that, in essence, is what the two-nation theory is about.

It is clear that in his demand for Pakistan, Mr Jinnah never envisaged the mass transfer of populations partition would trigger. Indeed, he was deeply sickened by the death and destruction that accompanied the birth of Pakistan.

But as Ayesha Jalal demonstrates in her seminal book The Sole Spokesman, the demand for Pakistan was initially a bargaining position for Mr Jinnah. The fact that he accepted the Cabinet Mission Plan calling for a confederation as late as 1946 indicates that he was prepared for a compromise until the very last moment.

It was only after the Congress leadership dilly dallied and raised objections that positions hardened and the creation of Pakistan became inevitable. The whole question of separateness was raised a hundred years ago by the Muslim aristocracy when the British were planning local elections.

Fearing being swamped by a Hindu majority, they petitioned their British overlords into agreeing to holding elections under a system of separate electorates, with Muslims voting for their own candidates.

This was the beginning of communal politics in India, and led willy-nilly to the demand for, and creation of, Pakistan. So far, this has been a somewhat academic discussion of past events that cannot be changed. But what implications does the two-nation theory have for the future?

For me, the concept of being unable to live next door to somebody because he has a different faith, or language, or appearance is intolerant and bigoted. And if Muslims cannot live with Hindus one day, West Pakistanis will be unable to live with Bengalis the next day, and Sunnis will be unable to live with Shias the following day.

Where does this logic lead us? Clearly, the demand for Pakistan was based on the perceived need to protect Muslim interests in the face of a Hindu majority after the British left. But if no transfer of population was contemplated, surely not much thought was given to the plight of the Muslims of India once Pakistan had come into being. And if they have been at a disadvantage in certain parts of India - and, indeed, suffered violence in sporadic riots - our own aggressive policies must be partly to blame.

One demographic aspect we need to consider is that currently, the subcontinent has a combined Muslim population of half a billion out of a total of 1.5 billion. This is not a small minority to kick around.

However, it must not be forgotten that in an undivided India, the area that constitutes Pakistan today would have remained a backwater. Before 1947, it was the least developed part of the subcontinent, and it is doubtful that much of Sindh, Balochistan, the NWFP and southern Punjab would have received much attention and resources in a united India.

Now when we are critical of the slow progress we think we have made, we forget the vast physical infrastructure that has been put in place. The two-nation theory served its purpose and has brought about the creation of Pakistan. It is time we laid it to rest.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20050108.htm

 

[EjazR]

Indian Madrasas are not terror hubs: US official | ummid.com

Malegaon: Indian Madrasas are not terror hubs. This is why we are supporting their activities, a US official said here on February 03.

“Madrasas are not terror hubs. They are religious schools governed by Islamic laws and Islam is about peace and love”, said Beth Brownson - Vice Consul for Political Affairs, Consulate General of the United States - yesterday in Malegaon.

“I think it is either because of hatred or because of lack of knowledge that people talk such things. Otherwise, there are very very few and isolated Madrasas in the world that might have indulged in such activities”, Ms. Brownson said yesterday while addressing the staff of Jamia Mohammadia and Kulliah Aisha Siddiqua at Mansoora in Malegaon.

“As far as we are concerned”, she added, “We support the activities of Madrasas. We consider them as the institutions that open the doors of education for many people, who otherwise don’t have a viable option.”

“We have very positive attitude towards Madrasas. This is why we are here”, she said adding, “We are working on various programs with Madrasas throughout India.”

Ms. Brownson’s visit was part of the Obama administration’s campaign to bring dialogue between people from various communities and to propagate religious freedom, equality and human right safeguards given to the people in the United States. She was accompanied by Tasneem Kalsekar, who is a Cultural Affairs Specialist attached with the American Center in Mumbai.

During her visit to Malegaon, Ms. Brownson visited Jamiatus Salehat for girls, Kulliah Aisha Siddiqua for girls and Jamia Mohammadia, Mansoora for boys. All the three institutions are internationally recognized for their contribution towards providing education to the Muslim students specially the girls.

 

[mrwarrior006]

@piyarapakistan

hindu god river ganga is one of the most polluted rivers on earth.
and imagine there god cant clean its on self.
hindu belief on penthism that means they considered everything as god.
there is no comparison between a muslim and a hindu.
hinduism just a regional myth religion made by nomadic aryans to rule darvindians.
hinduism got caste systems and the lower mosts shudars the untoucables are considered impure and are not even tpuched by upper catse hindus.
islam dont have any religious caste system and in islam every black white tall small every person of any ethnic back ground is equal.

my dear frnd every religion has some negativity and so is in islam i will not state them

coz something should be left untold

 

[Fighter488]

Andhra HC strikes down Muslim quota ​

Says Law Based On Dubious Data May Spur Conversions


TIMES NEWS NETWORK



Hyderabad: A seven-judge bench of the Andhra Pradesh high court headed by chief justice A R Dave on Monday struck down as “unsustainable” the state law providing 4% reservation in educational institutions and jobs for 15 Muslim groups deemed backward by the state government.
The bench described findings of the AP Backward Classes Commission — on which the quota law had been based — as ‘unscientific’. Within hours of the verdict, chief minister K Rosaiah said his government would move Supreme Court in appeal and vowed to restore the ‘AP Reservation in Favour of Socially and Educationally Backward Classes of Muslims Act, 2007’.
In a 5-2 majority ruling, the court found that the Commission neither evolved any criteria nor published these before inviting objections. It had merely stated that it had followed the two criteria evolved by the Mandal Commission for identification of Socially Economic Backward Classes (SEBC) among non-Hindu community.
Chief Justice Dave, speaking for himself and Justices A Gopala Reddy, V Eswaraiah and G Raghuram, said the enactment was religion-specific and potentially encouraged conversions and was thus unsustainable. The bench said the commission relied excessively on data collated by the Anthropological Survey of India, which was meant for determining the profile of the Indian population and not for deciding on affirmative action for Muslims.

‘Panel’s approach is non-scientific’


Hyderabad: The AP Backward Classes Commission’s procedural error in determining Muslim backwardness was fatal to its report and its consequent recommendation, the state’s high court said while striking down affirmative action for the community.
‘‘The fast track approach adopted by the commission was nothing but a non-scientific method,’’ Justice Dave said. It was neither ‘‘legal nor sustainable’’, he declared. The action of the panel was also criticized for its reliance on recommendations made by P S Krishnan, a retired IAS officer deputed by the state to conduct the survey on the commission’s behalf. The appointment of Krishnan is ‘protanto invalid’, the bench said and faulted the panel for relying on his findings.
Echoing the majority view in a separate judgment, Justice Meena Kumari said the investigation by the panel was not based on real facts, data or analysis and was without proper survey. The commission limited its survey to six districts in three days, she said.
Justice Prakash Rao aired the minority view holding that the bench was not called upon to adjudicate the list but was only required to answer a legal reference. He said that the government had some data before it on which it acted and thus could not be faulted. Justice DSR Varma said he did not agree with the majority view and would give his reasons shortly. The Advocate General sought suspension of the order which was rejected by the bench.
The Andhra government has long struggled to provide quotas for Muslims, who were first given reservation in July 2004, a month after Y S Rajasekhara Reddy came to power.

 

[Fighter488]

This is pathetic mentality and stupid logic I have ever encountered against reservations! If this hold true then each and every kind of reservation must be abolished, without any further delay, throughout the country.

Fighter

 

[ssheppard]

This is pathetic mentality and stupid logic I have ever encountered against reservations! If this hold true then each and every kind of reservation must be abolished, without any further delay, throughout the country.

Fighter

Why is there a need for a reservation......if the guy has got skills and talent....there is not need for a reservation.....I am against reservation of any kinds....makes a person complacent....and a mediocre........