India Air force को Rafale नहीं Gripen fighter planes चाहिए...!

[fsayed]

 

[GURU DUTT]

looks like SAAB has invested too heavly in indian media off late

 

[dadeechi]

It's not either or situation.

RAFALEs, F-16 IN and Gripen IN - All are coming.

 

[Tangent123]

It's not either or situation.

RAFALEs, F-16 IN and Gripen IN - All are coming.

Still awaiting Rafale for which agreement was to be signed this month

 

[GURU DUTT]

It's not either or situation.

RAFALEs, F-16 IN and Gripen IN - All are coming.

no only rafale as of now ... maybe refurbished and upgraded USAF F16 to F16V level with MII and all TOT but still questionable just forget grippen

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Firstly I have posted in Rafale sticky, sources say price of deal is around $7.5 Bn now for Rafales and in INR it's approx 50k crores or less. It's down from earlier 56k crores and don't be surprised if it comes down more.

Original 36 Rafale allocation was 36000crs and what I have heard is with change of configuration and customization we had initially planned beyond 36000 crores 20% more of around 43200 crs. We might end up closer to this range of 43-50k crores.

It's much less from earlier $8.9Bn surely but I would like to see more accompanying package details..

On topic and video by reporter sailesh kumar, news 24

• The again and again emphasis on 4th gen Rafale and 5th gen j series is an exaggerated myth. It's not that Jseries is pure 5tg gen. ATM with its engine it's quasi 5th gen or more like 4.95gen at cusp of 5th gen. In the same time Rafale program is also moving ahead in its upgradation program. It won't be 5th geb but it will be happily quasi 5th gen in next 7years.
• For 2 front we don't require 42 sqds we require much more than that. The reason being if fleet availability at war time is supposed at 66% or above we require minimum actively 36-40 sqds so the whole fleet size shud be 54-60 sqda for IAF alone.
• It talks abt 200 MKi and plan for 71 more whereas MKI is already planned for 312.
• Air Marshal kapil kak says LCA maintainence is terrible and it cannot be prply deployed in Bangalore itself so how will it be deployed in forward bases. (Talk abt Gripen and tejas together in media)
• Shailes says among 5th gen option is F35 or Gripen E. (Talk abt completely erasing PAKFA and Gripen pitching as 5th gen)
• The reporter also says a G2G deal will see Gripen early delivery versus 4th gen Rafale minimum 3 years
• It talks and boasts arup raha piloting Gripen forgetting he flew in twin seater Gripen D nt E
• It says further Gripen was second after Rafale in evaluation MMRCA (my o my eurofighter is fully deleted)
• It says 5th gen is more abt datafusion as if 4th gen does nt have it at all
• F35 is operational from 2015 and 175 are produced for us Marines and UK
• Saab offered MII
• It says Rafale acquisition is 59000 crs which I have explained already above
• It talks abt PAKFA and says due to economic condition of Russia FGFA won't be there for next 10 years

Well Saab is doing a very wrong marketing here. It should use proper ppl with better facts.

This report is utterly inaccurate and rubbish

For more comments m tagging the cavalry

@Abingdonboy
@Taygibay @BON PLAN @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @dadeechi @randomradio @zebra7

Guys you folks shud see this video.. It's a good entertainment. Talk abt such yellow journalism.. Enjoy

 

[randomradio]

Agnipariksha and kamar tode ne ki... lol at the terms.

There's no substance in this.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

When IAF will have begun to deploy the Rafale and will have started to tame it, it will not want to hear from another plane.

Egypt, for example, already plans to order us the option provided in the contract of its Rafale.

 

[randomradio]

When IAF will have begun to deploy the Rafale and will have started to tame it, it will not want to hear from another plane.

Egypt, for example, already plans to order us the option provided in the contract of its Rafale.

But IAF will not have the Rafale in hand when deals for other aircraft are signed.

It will affect options clauses for all the deals though.

 

[Grevion]

Why do they have guys with asthma reporting on such important matters. Why we dont have one proper defense jurno in India who can report it on television with proper fact and not those who makes us feels like we are at war with China and Pak every other day.

 

[volatile]

I have couple of questions first
Gripen NG is not 5th Gen
Secondly PAKFA seems bleak after hearing this
Thirdly F35 appears to be strong contender
Fourth Rafale deal is still not done
Fifth Teja is still not inducted but comparing it with SU30 seems little harsh

 

[zebra7]

It's not either or situation.

RAFALEs, F-16 IN and Gripen IN - All are coming.

LOL posted a long reply for your source, Did you diliver my message to your source ??

The again and again emphasis on 4th gen Rafale and 5th gen j series is an exaggerated myth. It's not that Jseries is pure 5tg gen. ATM with its engine it's quasi 5th gen or more like 4.95gen at cusp of 5th gen. In the same time Rafale program is also moving ahead in its upgradation program. It won't be 5th geb but it will be happily quasi 5th gen in next 7years.

We don't have much information of J series, but what I feel is the J20 is for creating the Anti Access anti Daniel over the South Sea China, so that the NATO could not target the Air Defence of PLAAF. Thus no country except China will found its use. Regarding J31 its for the exports mainly, and its atleast a decade away.

For 2 front we don't require 42 sqds we require much more than that. The reason being if fleet availability at war time is supposed at 66% or above we require minimum actively 36-40 sqds so the whole fleet size shud be 54-60 sqda for IAF alone.

64 Squardon the original approved limit.

It talks abt 200 MKi and plan for 71 more whereas MKI is already planned for 312.

True but it would be around 350, with 40 for Strategic Force Command.

Air Marshal kapil kak says LCA maintainence is terrible and it cannot be prply deployed in Bangalore itself so how will it be deployed in forward bases. (Talk abt Gripen and tejas together in media)

The reporter forgets the Bills of the SAAB for the maintenance for the South African Airforce. LCA MK-1 was never designed with the modular concept, and for short turnaround and quick maintainance concept, but it was never in the IAF ASQR till 2009, when the design was frozen. I think Dassault help could be helpful in its next Avatar MK-2, and Dassault have been with ADA from the project definition phase. More over ADA is using the Dassault's propitiatory software for desining, which SAAB have used to design its Gripen NG.

Those person should be forced to named the so called Senior Indian Airforce Official.

Shailes says among 5th gen option is F35 or Gripen E. (Talk abt completely erasing PAKFA and Gripen pitching as 5th gen)

F-35 is a intelligent project for the USA, to bound the NATO members and makes them dependent on the US server. India have its own projects, that compliments the 5th Gen resources -- Dedicated Airforce Satellite, Own Tactical Data links, Smart Weapons, IUSAV program, Navigation System -- We are lagging in technologies, but our path is clear and should be continued.

The reporter also says a G2G deal will see Gripen early delivery versus 4th gen Rafale minimum 3 years

Bullshit, even to formulate the Deal would take atleast 3 years. And SAAB don't have the resource to build the Gripen in numbers. @dadeechi Does the GE won't need a time, to deliver the Engine after SAAB would place the order sameway ADA have to wait. Only way Gripen could end in IAF, if SAAB takeover by TATA, BIRLA, Mahindra, Reliance.

It talks and boasts arup raha piloting Gripen forgetting he flew in twin seater Gripen D nt E

Did he forgot, Arup Raha piloting LCA MK-1 and even did the Simulated Ground attack, and Arup Raha didn't piloted Gripen, rather took the back seat flight experience.

It says further Gripen was second after Rafale in evaluation MMRCA (my o my eurofighter is fully deleted)

B.S Eurofighter 2000 was the Second contendor, and that too looses due to cost. Gripen even didn't made up to top 2.

It says 5th gen is more abt datafusion as if 4th gen does nt have it at all

B.S Datafussion is just one capability, for 5th Gen capable means which can work in the netcentric, 5th Gen warfare environment.

F35 is operational from 2015 and 175 are produced for us Marines and UK

F-35 is still not ready completely like Rafale, and there is a long list of airforce waiting for dilevery.

Saab offered MII

SAAB is only playing dirty games in India. I seriously feels SAAB is geting threatened.

It says Rafale acquisition is 59000 crs which I have explained already above

Those bundlebaaz Desi reporter should read it.

It talks abt PAKFA and says due to economic condition of Russia FGFA won't be there for next 10 years

He is right, may be for full capable FGFA, but would be worth wait

Well Saab is doing a very wrong marketing here. It should use proper ppl with better facts.

This report is utterly inaccurate and rubbish

@dadeechi Whats your source is saying for that. Believe me SAAB is playing very bad tricks in India, and they might loose the RWR, and MAWS order for combat hellicopters in India, also.

I have couple of questions first
Gripen NG is not 5th Gen
Secondly PAKFA seems bleak after hearing this
Thirdly F35 appears to be strong contender
Fourth Rafale deal is still not done
Fifth Tejas is still not inducted but comparing it with SU30 seems little harsh

Gripen NG is 4+ Gen combat plane developed by Integrator OEM named SAAB.

Nobody in India is interested in PAK FA rather in FGFA and both will be based on T-50 Technology Demostrator.

F-35 is not going for IAF, and Rafale-M is good option rather than F-35 B

Rafale Deal is certain -- 189 for IAF and 40 for Indian Navy

Both are apples and oranges.

 

[dadeechi]

LOL posted a long reply for your source, Did you diliver my message to your source ??



We don't have much information of J series, but what I feel is the J20 is for creating the Anti Access anti Daniel over the South Sea China, so that the NATO could not target the Air Defence of PLAAF. Thus no country except China will found its use. Regarding J31 its for the exports mainly, and its atleast a decade away.



64 Squardon the original approved limit.



True but it would be around 350, with 40 for Strategic Force Command.



The reporter forgets the Bills of the SAAB for the maintenance for the South African Airforce. LCA MK-1 was never designed with the modular concept, and for short turnaround and quick maintainance concept, but it was never in the IAF ASQR till 2009, when the design was frozen. I think Dassault help could be helpful in its next Avatar MK-2, and Dassault have been with ADA from the project definition phase. More over ADA is using the Dassault's propitiatory software for desining, which SAAB have used to design its Gripen NG.

Those person should be forced to named the so called Senior Indian Airforce Official.



F-35 is a intelligent project for the USA, to bound the NATO members and makes them dependent on the US server. India have its own projects, that compliments the 5th Gen resources -- Dedicated Airforce Satellite, Own Tactical Data links, Smart Weapons, IUSAV program, Navigation System -- We are lagging in technologies, but our path is clear and should be continued.



Bullshit, even to formulate the Deal would take atleast 3 years. And SAAB don't have the resource to build the Gripen in numbers. @dadeechi Does the GE won't need a time, to deliver the Engine after SAAB would place the order sameway ADA have to wait. Only way Gripen could end in IAF, if SAAB takeover by TATA, BIRLA, Mahindra, Reliance.



Did he forgot, Arup Raha piloting LCA MK-1 and even did the Simulated Ground attack, and Arup Raha didn't piloted Gripen, rather took the back seat flight experience.



B.S Eurofighter 2000 was the Second contendor, and that too looses due to cost. Gripen even didn't made up to top 2.



B.S Datafussion is just one capability, for 5th Gen capable means which can work in the netcentric, 5th Gen warfare environment.



F-35 is still not ready completely like Rafale, and there is a long list of airforce waiting for dilevery.



SAAB is only playing dirty games in India. I seriously feels SAAB is geting threatened.



Those bundlebaaz Desi reporter should read it.



He is right, may be for full capable FGFA, but would be worth wait



@dadeechi Whats your source is saying for that. Believe me SAAB is playing very bad tricks in India, and they might loose the RWR, and MAWS order for combat hellicopters in India, also.



Gripen NG is 4+ Gen combat plane developed by Integrator OEM named SAAB.

Nobody in India is interested in PAK FA rather in FGFA and both will be based on T-50 Technology Demostrator.

F-35 is not going for IAF, and Rafale-M is good option rather than F-35 B

Rafale Deal is certain -- 189 for IAF and 40 for Indian Navy

Both are apples and oranges.

My info

RAFALE would be capped at 126 (for IAF only)

Only RAFALEs & F-16 would start inductions prior to 2020 (Short term plan)

FGFA & Gripen IN (LCA MK2) would be post 2020 (medium to long term plan)

No talk of F-35 for IAF at this point in time.

I have couple of questions first
Gripen NG is not 5th Gen
Secondly PAKFA seems bleak after hearing this
Thirdly F35 appears to be strong contender
Fourth Rafale deal is still not done
Fifth Teja is still not inducted but comparing it with SU30 seems little harsh

LM needs to deliver 3000+ fighters to the current customers.

Even if India desired, it would not be able to procure F-35s at least until 2025.

 

[volatile]

Gripen NG is 4+ Gen combat plane developed by Integrator OEM named SAAB.

As per report they are pushing it as 5th Gen

Nobody in India is interested in PAK FA rather in FGFA and both will be based on T-50 Technology Demostrator.

At the moment only plausible option is to opt for ready to go production rather than newer frame but interest seems to be low for later as well as collaborative design .

F-35 is not going for IAF, and Rafale-M is good option rather than F-35 B

Report does make a point that Rafale at the end of day is 4++ Gen but F35 is 5th Gen

Rafale Deal is certain -- 189 for IAF and 40 for Indian Navy

I dont want to spoil the thread but fact suggests some thing else and Indian negotiators have pushed them against the wall .

LM needs to deliver 3000+ fighters to the current customers.

Even if India desired, it would not be able to procure F-35s at least until 2025.

Why you say that F35 will be produced in several countries under LM production supervision a good chance for Indian`s to secure an assembly line

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Bullshit, even to formulate the Deal would take atleast 3 years. And SAAB don't have the resource to build the Gripen in numbers. @dadeechi Does the GE won't need a time, to deliver the Engine after SAAB would place the order sameway ADA have to wait. Only way Gripen could end in IAF, if SAAB takeover by TATA, BIRLA, Mahindra, Reliance.

B.S Eurofighter 2000 was the Second contendor, and that too looses due to cost. Gripen even didn't made up to top 2.

With the Brazil deal, production capacity is going to increase significantly.

As for evaluation result, there was a technical evaluation of Gripen C.
Then, I guess a projection of the capabilities of Gripen E.
After the technical evaluation is done, other aspects are considerex.
The real showstopper was the non availability of Gripen E when
the decision for the shortlist was done.

Gripen E could have ended up at the top, and still not beeing shortlisted.
The fact that it was not short listed says NOTHING about the technical evaluation.
It is the expected performance of Gripen E, not the Gripen C data that counts here..