Increasing tensions in the Aegean

[Nein]

France doesn't "doesn't want to sell the warships to Greece" as the above is claiming,the French and the Greeks couldn't actually agree on financial terms of the contract..... the price first and then the financing clauses and conditions.... unofficially,the US are also putting pressures on Greece to buy US warships instead....

USA is basically undercutting the competition even against its own allies. Damn!!!

Off topic the French can build a lot of equipment themselves when it comes to a standard rifle why did they go German to replace the Famas??

 

[Vergennes]

USA is basically undercutting the competition even against its own allies. Damn!!!

Off topic the French can build a lot of equipment themselves when it comes to a standard rifle why did they go German to replace the Famas??

As I wrote once ;

You've got lot of reasons for that. Because with small arms,our sovereignty isn't put in question compared to a combat aircraft or a warship. (You can debate this claim though..) Because it would cost too much to maintain a small arms industry compared to the needs of the French armed forces. Because the market is already very competitive,too much arms makers and survival is hard.

There are some small arms makers (Like Verney-Carron) in France but they are too small and the financial conditions (revenues) imposed during the tender meant they couldn't take part in them.

France has chosen battle proven and high quality small arms for its soldiers,sadly,they aren't made in France but in reliable and serious European partners (Belgium,Germany..),the supply will never be halted,no matter what.

 

[Nein]

As I wrote once ;

You've got lot of reasons for that. Because with small arms,our sovereignty isn't put in question compared to a combat aircraft or a warship. (You can debate this claim though..) Because it would cost too much to maintain a small arms industry compared to the needs of the French armed forces. Because the market is already very competitive,too much arms makers and survival is hard.

There are some small arms makers (Like Verney-Carron) in France but they are too small and the financial conditions (revenues) imposed during the tender meant they couldn't take part in them.

View attachment 653854
View attachment 653853

France has chosen battle proven and high quality small arms for its soldiers,sadly,they aren't made in France but in reliable and serious European partners (Belgium,Germany..),the supply will never be halted,no matter what.

True to go for proven designs that are reliable instead of making a new one but the French had lots of experiences in making a standard rifle. The French have always used standard rifles that were made in France. Hence why I found the replacement for the famas as the german hk416 as unusual.

Was the Famas really that bad as some people say?

 

[Saithan]

Back to topic. The tension in Aegean is/was bound to happen. It's better that it happens in terms that Turkey deems appropriate.

I don't think it matters whether we join EU or not, this problem has always been there ever since the islands near Turkey were given to Greece as a "thank you for your support" present.

The allies never once considered the future implication of these actions. But oh well, if Turkey and Greece has to find a solution without interference from others then Greece will lose out.

Let's wait and see.

 

[Nein]

Back to topic. The tension in Aegean is/was bound to happen. It's better that it happens in terms that Turkey deems appropriate.

I don't think it matters whether we join EU or not, this problem has always been there ever since the islands near Turkey were given to Greece as a "thank you for your support" present.

The allies never once considered the future implication of these actions. But oh well, if Turkey and Greece has to find a solution without interference from others then Greece will lose out.

Let's wait and see.

I feel like losing the islands was a fault on our part. Ottoman rulers ignored naval matters ever since Barbarossas death it seems the Ottomans just ignored being a navy because we already own most of the seas like the Eastern Med, Black Sea and the Red Sea why worry until our enemies navies strengthened which changed the balance.

You look at late 1800s and early 1900s. Naval matters were mostly ignored even if battleships were bought they were barely used as the Turks did not want to risk their ships getting sunk not to mention

Having a poor navy costed us lots of wars especially in the 1900s There is a reason why Gallipoli happened.

Turkey has to strenghten its navy at all costs. I dont mean the land army has to be ignored. But land, naval and air are all equally important.

 

[Saithan]

I just shared this for addendum to the tensions.

Also if Esek adasi is such an important rock, plant a fucking lighthouse. (I would do it if I had power to do so).

 

[Saithan]

Turkey-Greece tensions escalate over Turkish Med drilling plans

• 22 July 2020

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionTurkey has rejected Greece's complaints over the ship's planned voyage as against international law
Greece has issued a naval alert after Turkey announced it was sending a ship to carry out a drilling survey in waters close to a Greek island off Turkey's south coast.

Turkey's initial advisory on Tuesday sparked alarm in Greece amid reports that naval ships from both countries were preparing to patrol the area.

The EU said Turkey's alert was "not helpful and sends the wrong message".

Turkey said its survey ship was working entirely within its continental shelf.

How have relations soured?
Although the Turkish survey ship, Oruc Reis, was still reported to be at anchor in the Turkish port of Antalya on Wednesday, the Turkish alert - known as a Navtex - prompted alarm in the Greek military and was condemned by Athens as illegal.

The survey alert covers an area between Cyprus and Crete. Unconfirmed Greek reports said Turkish and Greek navy ships were heading to an area near the Greek island of Kastellorizo, a short distance from the Turkish mainland.

Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionThis Turkish drilling ship, Fatih, went into operation off Cyprus last year
Relations between Greece and Turkey have been icy anyway. The two countries have quarrelled over migrants crossing into Greece; then earlier this month Greece was appalled when Turkey said the Hagia Sophia museum in Istanbul, for centuries an Orthodox Christian cathedral, would be turned into a mosque.

Greece has said the Turkish naval move violates its sovereign rights. Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis spoke to German Chancellor Angela Merkel and said he would talk to other Greek political leaders about the escalation on Thursday.

Why the flare-up?
Nato allies Turkey and Greece are on separate sides in a race to develop energy resources in the Eastern Mediterranean.

In recent years, huge gas reserves have been found in the waters off Cyprus, prompting the Cypriot government, Greece, Israel and Egypt to work together to make the most of the resources. As part of that agreement, energy supplies would go to Europe via a 2,000km (1,200-mile) pipeline in the Med.

Last year Turkey stepped up drilling to the west of Cyprus, which has been divided since 1974, with Turkish-controlled northern Cyprus only recognised as a republic by Ankara. The division of the island was marked in Turkey this week, and Ankara has always argued that the island's natural resources should be shared.

Then, in November 2019, Ankara signed a deal with Libya that Turkey said created an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) from the Turkish southern coast to Libya's north-east coast. Egypt said it was illegal, Greece said it was absurd as it failed to take account of the Greek island of Crete, midway between the two countries.

At the end of May, Turkey said it planned to start drilling in the coming months in several other areas further west, alarming EU members Greece and Cyprus.

Several licences have been issued to Turkish Petroleum to drill in the Eastern Med, including off the Greek islands of Rhodes and Crete.

"Everyone should accept that Turkey and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus cannot be excluded from the energy equation in the region," said Turkish Vice-President Fuat Oktay.

• Turkish drone fuels tension over Cyprus gas claims
• France suspends Nato mission role amid Turkey row
• Turkey ramps up its drilling operations off Cyprus

What are the legal issues?
Many Greek islands in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean are within sight of the Turkish coast, so issues of territorial waters are complex and the two countries have come to the brink of war in the past.

If Greece were to extend its territorial waters from six miles to the maximum of 12 allowed internationally, Turkey argues its sea routes would be severely affected.

Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionTurkish drilling ship Yavuz seen last year being escorted by a Turkish naval vessel to the Cyprus coast
Apart from territorial waters, there are exclusive economic zones (EEZs), like that agreed between Turkey and Libya, but also like the Cypriot EEZ accords with Lebanon, Egypt and Israel. They can extend for 200 nautical miles.

So where does Kastellorizo fit in, 2km from the Turkish mainland?

Greece argues that the Turkish alert involves a large area of the continental shelf of Kastellorizo. But Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said last month that "islands that are far from the mainland and closer to Turkey cannot have a continental shelf".

Turkey's vice-president said last month that Ankara was tearing up maps "drawn to imprison us on the mainland", and Ankara insists it is acting with the UN's Law of the Sea.

What reaction has there been?
Greece's European allies have backed its position. German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas, on a visit to Athens, urged Ankara to stop "provocations in the Eastern Mediterranean".

On Wednesday, an EU spokeswoman said Turkey's new move was "not helpful and sends the wrong message".

The bloc had repeatedly underlined that the limitation of exclusive economic zones and the continental shelf should be addressed through negotiations and in good faith, she added.

source: BBC

 

[Saithan]

ret. adm. Cem Gürdeniz is explaining that this is a wake up call for Greece.

Even US is saying "disputed" area, so in short Turkey can do whatever we want in our EEZ.

 

[Elvin]

If you look at the situation from afar you see that all of the European powers, Russia and Arab states are doing their absolute best to contain Turkey. Every move Turkey makes in the Mediterranean is questioned and opposed. Every move Turkey makes in Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc. is question and opposed while western nations do it freely with wide support.

It doesn't take a genius to see that the west and regional countries are afraid of something. Therefore, Turkey should be ready to use some serious force to accomplish it's objectives and silence the haters. Force is the law of nature, the strong prevail.

 

[Deactivated]

If you look at the situation from afar you see that all of the European powers, Russia and Arab states are doing their absolute best to contain Turkey. Every move Turkey makes in the Mediterranean is questioned and opposed. Every move Turkey makes in Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc. is question and opposed while western nations do it freely with wide support.

It doesn't take a genius to see that the west and regional countries are afraid of something. Therefore, Turkey should be ready to use some serious force to accomplish it's objectives and silence the haters. Force is the law of nature, the strong prevail.

it's almost impossible to face so many enemies at the same time bro

 

[Saithan]

it's almost impossible to face so many enemies at the same time bro

It is impossible. Syria is not going away. And Libya isn’t going away. But the oil from Libya will force western countries to react. Not so with Syria. The terrorist are there as well. I don’t know when we have cleaned up in Iraq, but pyd/sdf is still in syria.

 

[Deactivated]

It is impossible. Syria is not going away. And Libya isn’t going away. But the oil from Libya will force western countries to react. Not so with Syria. The terrorist are there as well. I don’t know when we have cleaned up in Iraq, but pyd/sdf is still in syria.

So what should turkey do? Our foreign policy is like "tired of life" ... I love this 'offensive' and latently aggressive course, especially to assert your own interests and simply 'take' in an emergency ... but one by one! How easy would it have been for TR

 

[Nein]

So what should turkey do? Our foreign policy is like "tired of life" ... I love this 'offensive' and latently aggressive course, especially to assert your own interests and simply 'take' in an emergency ... but one by one! How easy would it have been for TR

Turkey is in the most shittest region in the world to be honest.

You have the Middle East, Balkans and the Caucasus. Always wars, secratarianism, terrorism and ethnic rivalries along with territorial disputes or irrendentism.

Turkeys geography is a blessing and a curse. Its a bridge between two contintenets also one of the most strategic places on this planet. Everybody wanted to control Anatolia it is a gateway

 

[Deactivated]

Turkey is in the most shittest region in the world to be honest.

You have the Middle East, Balkans and the Caucasus. Always wars, secratarianism, terrorism and ethnic rivalries along with territorial disputes or irrendentism.

Turkeys geography is a blessing and a curse. Its a bridge between two contintenets also one of the most strategic places on this planet. Everybody wanted to control Anatolia it is a gateway

But that was not always the case - there was a time when Europe looked exactly LIKE THIS, and the Middle East, whether Baghdad or Damascus - to Kabul - was modern, rich in culture and beautiful ...
We also have to thank western imperialism here (conspiracy theory; sorry my friends, that in the case of turkey I am not satisfied with the purported 'facts') ...

 

[Nein]

But that was not always the case - there was a time when Europe looked exactly LIKE THIS, and the Middle East, whether Baghdad or Damascus - to Kabul - was modern, rich in culture and beautiful ...
We also have to thank western imperialism here (conspiracy theory; sorry my friends, that in the case of turkey I am not satisfied with the purported 'facts') ...

Crazy how the tables have turned!!!