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In Modi's Gujarat, Muslims Struggle to be respected by Hindus

So hindus, christians, muslims all fight in india.

Secularism isn't that shameful anywhere in the world. :lol:



In india it is much more than Pakistan.

1.Secularism is state policy that we strive to achieve.
It does not mean that every single Indian is secular and it never can be just like making some thing illegal does not mean that no one will ever do that illegal things.

2.In pakistan even muslims are not respectful towards muslims of other sects let alone people of other religion who are continuously harassed for being non muslims.
 
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Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

As historians tell it, during India's first election in 1952, Jawaharlal Nehru was already worrying about the feeble representation of Muslims in the country's positions of authority.

Many more Muslims had stayed back in India than the millions who migrated to newly-born Pakistan after the partition just five years before.

India's first prime minister's concerns about the country's second largest religious group and the largest religious minority were eminently justified.

"There were hardly any Muslims left in the defence service, and not many in the secretariat," says historian Ramachandra Guha.

Little change

Next year, in 1953, a group of intellectuals met to discuss forming a political party for the Muslims and spoke about the low representation of Muslims in political positions and bureaucracy.

More than half century later, on India's 60th anniversary of independence, very little has changed.

Today, at over 138 million, Muslims constitute over 13% of India 's billion-strong population, and in sheer numbers are exceeded only by Indonesia's and Pakistan's Muslim community.

The country has had three Muslim presidents - a largely ceremonial role. Bollywood and cricket, two secular pan-Indian obsessions, continue to have their fair share of Muslim stars - the ruling heroes in Mumbai films are Shah Rukh, Aamir and Salman Khan, and the star of India's current English cricket tour is pace bowler Zaheer Khan. Not long ago, the national team was led by the stylish Mohammed Azharuddin.

That's where the good news essentially ends.

Muslims comprise only 5% of employees in India's big government, a recent study found. The figure for Indian Railways, the country's biggest employer, is only 4.5%.

The community continues to have a paltry representation in the bureaucracy and police - 3% in the powerful Indian Civil Service, 1.8% in foreign service and only 4% in the Indian Police Service. And Muslims account for only 7.8% of the people working in the judiciary.

Indian Muslims are also largely illiterate and poor.

At just under 60%, the community's literacy rate is lower than the national average of 65%. Only half of Muslim women can read and write. As many as a quarter of Muslim children in the age-group 6-14 have either never attended school or dropped out.

They are also poor - 31% of Muslims are below the country's poverty line, just a notch above the lowest castes and tribes who remain the poorest of the poor.

^^ that's according to indian standard and according to US standard about 70 to 90%.

Identity card

To add to the community's woes are myriad problems relating to, as one expert says, "identity, security and equity".

"They carry a double burden of being labelled as 'anti-national' and as being 'appeased' at the same time," says a recent report on the state of Indian Muslims.

Historians say it is ironic that many Indians bought the Hindu nationalist bogey of 'Muslim appeasement' when it had not translated into any major socio-economic gain for the community.

So why has the lot of Indian Muslims remained miserable after six decades of independence?

For one, it is the sheer apathy and ineptitude of the Indian state which has failed to provide equality of opportunity in health, education and employment.

This has hurt the poor - including the Muslim poor who comprise the majority of the community - most.

There is also the relatively recent trend of political bias against the community when Hindu nationalist governments have ruled in Delhi and the states.

Also, the lack of credible middle class leadership among the Muslims has hobbled the community's vision and progress.

Consequently, rabble rousers claiming to represent the community have thrust themselves to the fore.

To be true, mass migration during partition robbed the community of potential leaders - most Muslim civil servants, teachers, doctors and professionals crossed over.

But the failure to throw up credible leaders has meant low community participation in the political processes and government - of the 543 MPs in India's lower house of parliament, only 36 are Muslims.

Also, as Ramachandra Guha says, the "vicissitudes of India-Pakistan relations and Pakistan's treatment of its minorities" ensured that Muslims remained a "vulnerable" community.

Regional disparities

The plight of Indian Muslims also has a lot to do with the appalling quality of governance, unequal social order and lack of equality of opportunity in northern India where most of the community lives.

Populous Uttar Pradesh is home to nearly a fifth of Muslims (31 million) living in India, while Bihar has more than 10 million community members.

"Southern India is a different picture. Larger cultural and social movements have made education more accessible and self employment more lucrative benefiting a large number of Muslims," says historian Mahesh Rangarajan.

In Andhra Pradesh state, for example, 68% of Muslims are literate, higher than the state and national average. School enrolment rates for Muslim children are above 90% in Kerala and Tamil Nadu.

Mahesh Rangarajan says poverty and "absence of ameliorative policies" has hurt India's Muslims most.

If India was to be "a secular, stable and strong state," Nehru once said, "then our first consideration must be to give absolute fair play to our minority".

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

2.In pakistan even muslims are not respectful towards muslims of other sects let alone people of other religion who are continuously harassed for being non muslims.

This thing is over hyped in foreign media.
 
. . .
Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

As historians tell it, during India's first election in 1952, Jawaharlal Nehru was already worrying about the feeble representation of Muslims in the country's positions of authority.

Many more Muslims had stayed back in India than the millions who migrated to newly-born Pakistan after the partition just five years before.

India's first prime minister's concerns about the country's second largest religious group and the largest religious minority were eminently justified.

"There were hardly any Muslims left in the defence service, and not many in the secretariat," says historian Ramachandra Guha.

Little change

Next year, in 1953, a group of intellectuals met to discuss forming a political party for the Muslims and spoke about the low representation of Muslims in political positions and bureaucracy.

More than half century later, on India's 60th anniversary of independence, very little has changed.

Today, at over 138 million, Muslims constitute over 13% of India 's billion-strong population, and in sheer numbers are exceeded only by Indonesia's and Pakistan's Muslim community.

The country has had three Muslim presidents - a largely ceremonial role. Bollywood and cricket, two secular pan-Indian obsessions, continue to have their fair share of Muslim stars - the ruling heroes in Mumbai films are Shah Rukh, Aamir and Salman Khan, and the star of India's current English cricket tour is pace bowler Zaheer Khan. Not long ago, the national team was led by the stylish Mohammed Azharuddin.

That's where the good news essentially ends.

Muslims comprise only 5% of employees in India's big government, a recent study found. The figure for Indian Railways, the country's biggest employer, is only 4.5%.

The community continues to have a paltry representation in the bureaucracy and police - 3% in the powerful Indian Civil Service, 1.8% in foreign service and only 4% in the Indian Police Service. And Muslims account for only 7.8% of the people working in the judiciary.

Indian Muslims are also largely illiterate and poor.

At just under 60%, the community's literacy rate is lower than the national average of 65%. Only half of Muslim women can read and write. As many as a quarter of Muslim children in the age-group 6-14 have either never attended school or dropped out.

They are also poor - 31% of Muslims are below the country's poverty line, just a notch above the lowest castes and tribes who remain the poorest of the poor.

^^ that's according to indian standard and according to US standard about 70 to 90%.

Identity card

To add to the community's woes are myriad problems relating to, as one expert says, "identity, security and equity".

"They carry a double burden of being labelled as 'anti-national' and as being 'appeased' at the same time," says a recent report on the state of Indian Muslims.

Historians say it is ironic that many Indians bought the Hindu nationalist bogey of 'Muslim appeasement' when it had not translated into any major socio-economic gain for the community.

So why has the lot of Indian Muslims remained miserable after six decades of independence?

For one, it is the sheer apathy and ineptitude of the Indian state which has failed to provide equality of opportunity in health, education and employment.

This has hurt the poor - including the Muslim poor who comprise the majority of the community - most.

There is also the relatively recent trend of political bias against the community when Hindu nationalist governments have ruled in Delhi and the states.

Also, the lack of credible middle class leadership among the Muslims has hobbled the community's vision and progress.

Consequently, rabble rousers claiming to represent the community have thrust themselves to the fore.

To be true, mass migration during partition robbed the community of potential leaders - most Muslim civil servants, teachers, doctors and professionals crossed over.

But the failure to throw up credible leaders has meant low community participation in the political processes and government - of the 543 MPs in India's lower house of parliament, only 36 are Muslims.

Also, as Ramachandra Guha says, the "vicissitudes of India-Pakistan relations and Pakistan's treatment of its minorities" ensured that Muslims remained a "vulnerable" community.

Regional disparities

The plight of Indian Muslims also has a lot to do with the appalling quality of governance, unequal social order and lack of equality of opportunity in northern India where most of the community lives.

Populous Uttar Pradesh is home to nearly a fifth of Muslims (31 million) living in India, while Bihar has more than 10 million community members.

"Southern India is a different picture. Larger cultural and social movements have made education more accessible and self employment more lucrative benefiting a large number of Muslims," says historian Mahesh Rangarajan.

In Andhra Pradesh state, for example, 68% of Muslims are literate, higher than the state and national average. School enrolment rates for Muslim children are above 90% in Kerala and Tamil Nadu.

Mahesh Rangarajan says poverty and "absence of ameliorative policies" has hurt India's Muslims most.

If India was to be "a secular, stable and strong state," Nehru once said, "then our first consideration must be to give absolute fair play to our minority".

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

There is only one reason why most muslims lag behind in almost every field

Having too many children with almost no source of income which bring perpetual sorrows due to lack of proper education. This is found in almost all muslims socieities except bohra community which are doing better than even Hindus and Jains.

My father had 4 siblings and so he could manage education only until diploma while me being my parents only child made it possible for them to educate me with the best means...can this be said about muslims parents of my parents generation?
Absolutely not...muslims are almost a generation behind non muslims when it comes to family planning and education and blame is on them.

There are many muslims in my organisation and there is only one thing common between all of them except there religion and that is they do not have more than one sibling.
 
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Hey @Don Jaguar , here is that video, how Pashtuns and Muhajirs live side by side in bullet ridden houses in Karachi.

 
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@Don Jaguar

The total number of Muslims killed in riots in India for the last 10 years is less than the number of Shias killed in Quetta in a single day, some days before

I know your pride as a Pakistani would make it almost impossible for you to see it, but in present situation India is far more safer to Muslims than the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
 
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While all this is going on... here is a bit of good news! One step closer to Delhi....

Narendra Modi likely to head BJP's 2014 poll campaign, say sources | NDTV.com


New Delhi: Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi is likely to head the Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) campaign committee for the 2014 Lok Sabha elections. This will make him the face of the BJP's election campaign as widely expected. This will also pitch him directly against the Congress' Rahul Gandhi who too heads his party's election coordination committee.

Sources have told NDTV that such a move has the blessings of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or RSS, the ideological parent of the BJP, and that an announcement could be made in February, coinciding with one that Nitin Gadkari, despite all the controversy over corruption charges, will get his second term as BJP president after all.

Mr Modi is unlikely to resign as Gujarat Chief Minister to assume the key role in party affairs, sources said. The RSS is said to be factoring in a scenario where the BJP might be unable to get the numbers required to form government in 2014. To ensure that Gujarat - a state the BJP has ruled for the last 12 years now, mostly thanks to Mr Modi's efforts - is not left rudderless, the RSS is reportedly of the view that Mr Modi should only give up his post and head to Delhi once it's clear that the BJP has the numbers. Till then, he will wear both hats.

There has been a clamour within the BJP that the leadership issue be sorted soon as General Elections are due next year. After he recorded a third consecutive and spectacular electoral victory in Gujarat last month, Mr Modi has been seen as the BJP's best prospect. Party vice-president Kalraj Mishra said he had conveyed to the top echelons that a decision on the party's leadership must be made soon.

"Across the country Mr Modi has emerged as the most favoured leader among the people. Even within the party there is realization about this fact, but the right party forum will eventually decide," said Mr Mishra.

Mr Modi's supporters within the BJP, and many people outside the party, see him as a potential future Prime Minister. Many political watchers have already egged the 2014 elections as a Rahul Gandhi versus Narendra Modi personality clash. The Congress has sought to play this down by casting Mr Modi as a regional leader as compared to Mr Gandhi being the Congress' stated No. 2 after his mother and party president Sonia Gandhi. But Mr Modi himself is said to have little doubt about a bigger role at the national level, and soon.

There is, however, the not insignificant fact that Mr Modi is not acceptable universally among the BJP's allies in the National Democratic Alliance that it leads. Important partner Janata Dal (United) has made it very clear that the shadow of the 2002 Gujarat communal riots that tarnishes Mr Modi's political career makes him unacceptable as the face of the 2014 campaign for the alliance as a whole.

However some leaders close to Narendra Modi do not favour the proposed arrangement. They suggest that Modi should be declared as the prime ministerial candidate. Also some Gujarat BJP leaders claim Modi is yet to say yes to the proposal.

All decks have also been cleared, sources say, for Nitin Gadkari's second term as party president, an eventuality that looked bleak just a month ago as he grappled not just with serious corruption charges and scathing criticism from political rivals, but also with rebellion within the BJP, with senior leaders suggesting that he resign. The RSS is said to have argued that if Mr Gadkari has been able to continue as the party chief so far, there is no reason why he cannot do so for the next three years.

The RSS had handpicked Mr Gadkari to be BJP president in 2009, in an assertion of its might within the saffron family. Many top BJP leaders had demurred then and when corruption charges surfaced against Mr Gadkari, who is also a Nagpur businessman, they made a case for his resignation and for denying him an unprecedented second term.
 
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Hey @Don Jaguar , here is that video, how Pashtuns and Muhajirs live side by side in bullet ridden houses in Karachi.


Political fights.

You don't know its roots you will not understand.

@Don Jaguar

The total number of Muslims killed in riots in India for the last 10 years is less than the number of Shias killed in Quetta in a single day, some days before

I know your pride as a Pakistani would make it almost impossible for you to see it, but in present situation India is far more safer to Muslims than the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Present day condition may not be good but it is not going to remain the same.
 
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Political fights.

You don't know its roots you will not understand.

I didn't see any political fight in the video, people in the videos look common people including women. Or is everyone in Karachi deeply affiliated to ethnic based political parties.
 
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I didn't see any political fight in the video, people in the videos look common people including women. Or is everyone in Karachi deeply affiliated to ethnic based political parties.

Dude i have experience of living in these kind of areas in karachi i understand it very well.

It is political.
 
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Present day condition may not be good but it is not going to remain the same.

Shias are never going to be safe in the increasingly wahhabi republic of Pakistan. Too bad.

Dude i have experience of living in these kind of areas in karachi i understand it very well.

It is political.

Its ethnic problems. MQM represents the Mujahirs who are a different ethnic group from the Pathans represented by ANP and nowadays TTP has also joined.
 
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Shias are never going to be safe in the increasingly wahhabi republic of Pakistan. Too bad.

You don't know me do you?

Its ethnic problems. MQM represents the Mujahirs who are a different ethnic group from the Pathans represented by ANP and nowadays TTP has also joined.

MQM do not represents all muhajirs and ANP represent a very few pashtuns.
 
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You don't know me do you?

I know you are Shia..too bad for you.


MQM do not represents all muhajirs and ANP represent a very few pashtuns.

MQM represents the Muhajirs way more than any other party and in the ethnic cauldron of Karachi, ANP represents the Pashtuns way more than others. The MQM vs ANP fight is essentially a Muhajir vs Pathan fight where Muhajirs see the immigrating Pathans of threatening them in their own city..
 
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