If Not Pak-Fa then what for India ??

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

With Media reports emerging about major differences emerging between India and Russia on Joint development of a 5th generation fighter jet based on Russia’s Pak-fa over price demanded by Russia for Customization and Indian air force still not convinced about the maturity of the technology developed for Pak-Fa , it seems more or less Project is in the back-burner if not completely dead .

Russians officially now seem to have strategically tied sale of S-400 Air defence System to India only if they have deal on Pak-fa with India, it is pretty much clear now that Russians do not have funds nor Research to complete the project unless India injects much-needed funds into Pak-Fa project which will provide India little share in technological know-how of complex next-generation aviation technology since India’s Work-share is quite limited to provide nonessential systems for the project .

like always Indian Air force too does not seem to have any backup plans regarding procurement of 5th generation fighter jet program which will be placed at the top tier of its aircraft inventory and will overtake current frontline 4.5++ generation fighter jets like Sukhoi-30 fighters in near future.

While few countries have initiated their own 5th generation fighter jets program in recent years, only United States can offer Lockheed Martin developed F-35 5th generation fighter jets which will become operational in dozen air forces around the world by 2020.

Countries like Japan and South Korea-Indonesia too have their own 5th generation fighter jet programs which are of similar capabilities and categories like that of India’s own AMCA 5th generation fighter jet program for India to take notice or consider seriously.

Russia’s Mig Corporation proposed LMFS single-engine, Stealthy multirole combat aircraft program is interesting program which will replace Mig-29 and is still in preliminary stage which can benefit India greatly if offered to be part of the project but status of the project is still in question due to lack of any developments reported in last few years for India to consider it seriously .

Coming back to India;s 5th generation AMCA project under which India aims to develop Multi-role Stealth aircraft which can perform multi-mission operations when required in the area of operation seems to be ideal program for India to bank on since it will allow India to fund Research and development of the project which will help India in other future projects which will return allow India to develop local infrastructure/ manpower while still maintaining higher degree of customization as per user requirements .

 

[Bharat_Bhakt]

OP like it or not India will buy/built russian PAKFA as russians want us with a few things more to sweeten the deal for both russia and india other party is very important for there future goals and both know it but if you ask if not PAKFA then what point is india knows china is going to field two 5th gen fighters in coming decade hence it needs them too to keep balance of power as for twin seat FGFA it will also come but much much later and we already have a project called AMCA going for which research is being done for almost a decade now and since USA needs india for its future plans and so does japan so make sure both F35 and Mitsubishi ATD X shin shin might come to india aswell and if everything goes as per plan with rafale deal then future french/european 5th gen fighter just might be on offer too

 

[Donald Trump]

With 5G jet features, the Super Sukhoi is the way to go.

India and Russia are in the process of upgrading the SU-30 with added characteristics of fifth-generation aircraft to convert it into a “Super Sukhoi”. India plans to start upgrading Sukhoi in phases to Super Sukhoi Standard by 2020 and in phase 1, the first 80 aircrafts delivered to Indian air force will be selected for such upgrades.

Super Sukhoi Standard will introduce Modern Aesa radar and latest technology in modern Avionics in the cockpit for pilots. Upgraded Super Sukhoi would also lead changes to several structural elements which will bring in advanced stealth characteristics in the aircraft. Aircraft will come with new weapons systems developed for FGFA and other Indigenous Weapons systems been developed in India.

And with the 300km Brahmos mated to them, the platform would be a cost effective formidable force multiplier.

 

[calmDown@all]

i think these are the options for india along with super sukhoi & sukhoi 30 mki

HAL Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian project for a fifth-generationfighter aircraftbeing developed and designed by India's Aeronautical Development Agency and to be manufactured byHindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).[2] It is a single-seat, twin-engine, stealthsupermaneuverable all weathermultirole fighter aircraft. Unofficial design work on the AMCA started in 2008 with official work started in 2011 and completed in 2014.[3][4] In 2008 Indian Navy joined the programme for the naval variant optimized for the aircraft carriers operation.[5] The first flight is scheduled to occur in 2023–2024.[1]

The Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) or Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF) is afifth-generation fighter being developed by India and Russia. It is a derivative project from the PAK FA (T-50 is the prototype) being developed for the Russian Air Force. FGFA was the earlier designation for the Indian version, while the combined project is now called the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF).[5]

The completed FGFA will include a total of 43 improvements over the T-50, including stealth, supercruise, advanced sensors, networking and combat avionics.[6][7] Two separate prototypes will be developed, one by Russia and a separate one by India. Russia agreed to the demand of the Indian Air force that it must be a two-seater fighter. The Indian version will be a two-seater for pilot and co-pilot/Weapon Systems Operator (WSO).

The PAK FA (Russian: ПАК ФА, Russian: Перспективный авиационный комплекс фронтовой авиации,Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, literally "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation") is a fifth-generationfighter programme of the Russian Air Force. The T-50 is the name of the prototype aircraft (though it is unlikely it will be the name for the production aircraft) designed by Sukhoi for the PAK FA programme. The aircraft is a stealthy, single-seat, twin-enginejetfighter, and will be the first operational aircraft in Russian service to use stealth technology. It is a multirole fighter designed for air superiority andattack roles. The fighter is planned to have supercruise, stealth, supermaneuverability, and advanced avionics to overcome the prior generation of fighter aircraft as well as ground and maritime defences.[10][11]

..:: India Strategic ::.. Indian Navy: US offers F 35 to India as India-US Defence Cooperation grows

 

[Jai Bharat]

PakFA might be delayed til the new engines are ready, but it will be inducted one way or another.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

If Chinese Air Force can field two types of 5th gen fighter aircraft, then Russia will have to field 2 types just to keep its status of second powerful airforce in the world. So more than India, Russia needs those planes in case they have any conflict with China. They don't want to see their fighters jet as a seating duck against the 5th gen Chinese jets. Plus Russia needs order in big numbers plus a big customer who can keep the production line of the jet for 15-20 to come and the one and only choice in the world for the Russian is IAF.

So no need to worry about the programme, it will be successfully executed and IAF will buy FGFA may be with little inputs from HAL but they will buy it. Also we all know how IAF and IA personnels works with acquisition process, they'll delay it for 5-6 years but at last they will buy FGFA.

 

[Bharat_Bhakt]

PakFA might be delayed til the new engines are ready, but it will be inducted one way or another.

Yes nothing can stop that but like MKI it will also have mix of russian french and israeli systems & wepons in it

 

[Ind4Ever]

With 5G jet features, the Super Sukhoi is the way to go.

India and Russia are in the process of upgrading the SU-30 with added characteristics of fifth-generation aircraft to convert it into a “Super Sukhoi”. India plans to start upgrading Sukhoi in phases to Super Sukhoi Standard by 2020 and in phase 1, the first 80 aircrafts delivered to Indian air force will be selected for such upgrades.

Super Sukhoi Standard will introduce Modern Aesa radar and latest technology in modern Avionics in the cockpit for pilots. Upgraded Super Sukhoi would also lead changes to several structural elements which will bring in advanced stealth characteristics in the aircraft. Aircraft will come with new weapons systems developed for FGFA and other Indigenous Weapons systems been developed in India.

And with the 300km Brahmos mated to them, the platform would be a cost effective formidable force multiplayer.

If it's 2020 that we could start super Sukois upgrades then we are terribly in trouble.

First on OP. PAKFA deal is not dead but it's a dance of negotiations tango by India and Russia. Russians trying to get better deal sighting glim pictures of Indian Airforce new inventory is concerned. But India trying to do the same by sighting Rafale deal out of no where when every one thought deal is dead and not to mention Russian economy is doldrums for many years now. Particularly in last year or two. Russia can't find better partner who can be trusted and can place huge orders like no other . China will completely xerox the Russian weapon systems and in future will compete against Russian originals. A bad nation to trust.

So I am sure PakFa and FGFA deal will go through as what India needs is very reasonable. Which is ToT and timely manner of delivery which Russia finding it hard as PakFa has many glitches which needed lots more time and money for R&D. That's the reason yet Indian polit not allowed to review or even fly this bird.

These are stupidity to think deal is dead. Modi government won't put India's security in a mess. There is no replacement for PakFa in IAF inventory until unless US can offer F22 technology without any issues of crouching into our future war strategy with their weapons they sold. . . So it's really waster of time even to think about like this. Like deal is closed.

If atall it comes to this situation India will have to manage with new more MKI with upgrades, More Rafale, Tejas MK1-P. Not so bad in our neighborhood till 2022. But AMCA should be the way ahead if PakFa deal is cancelled.

As far as Navy is concerned F35 vertical takeoff and landing jets would add more teeth than any 4.5 generation we have. It's a great fighter built for bombing missions and with its super stealth technology and massive radar and EW suite at sea it's will be most modern and most feared Naval assets in whole of Asia. Think about 20 f35 approaching huge fleet of PLAN out of nowhere.

Navy must give it a try for our Vishal. But Need rafale in a mix to have air dominance along with other combat and IG missions.

BUT BIG NO NO FOR IAF. F35 WILL BE TARGET PRACTICE FOR CHINESE J11S AND SUKOIS

 

[Archie]

If not the PAKFA, then F35A will be inducted US has shown full willingness to supply F35A

In such a scenario India wll order 64-80 F35A off the shelf from USA
Since Navy has stated F35C as its first choice and plans to order 36-48 F35C provided US is willing

 

[SrNair]

Dont need to buy anthting from US in this regard .We cant trust them .
If they dont agree with PAK FA then the only choice is that to upgrade current 4.5 SU 30 .And it will remain relevant in at least for next two decades .USe these time for AMCA funding .Develope our own fifth gen .That is the only choice.

 

[Archie]

Dont need to buy anthting from US in this regard .We cant trust them .
If they dont agree with PAK FA then the only choice is that to upgrade current 4.5 SU 30 .And it will remain relevant in at least for next two decades .USe these time for AMCA funding .Develope our own fifth gen .That is the only choice.

If we are to develop our own 5th gen fighter, then it will be inducted in year 2040
If an alternative is not found then we will be facing shortage of 250 aircrafts by 2030 rather than 120 aircrafts at present

 

[SrNair]

If we are to develop our own 5th gen fighter, then it will be inducted in year 2040
If an alternative is not found then we will be facing shortage of 250 aircrafts by 2030 rather than 120 aircrafts at present

Necessity is the mother of invention .
When the push come to shove they will do that .India developed our own space vehicles , Missiles,SSBN because we knew that we wouldnt got from outside world .If things are that bad our IAF will do that no matter what .
We dont need another Su 30 type arrangement .
Rafale and Tejas program is enough for us for at least 2030. I think AMCA will began to fly after 2025 .

 

[ANPP]

Just dont do anything. Have faith on AMCA and wait for european answer to this. Last time I read that France will skip 5gen and go to directly to 6gen. We can purchase that one if these speculations will become truth.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

If we are to develop our own 5th gen fighter, then it will be inducted in year 2040
If an alternative is not found then we will be facing shortage of 250 aircrafts by 2030 rather than 120 aircrinductingesent

That shortage can be effectively filled up if we opt for extra Mig29s and Mirages. That's the way to go. We and our air force needs to become realistic .

With 24+21 orders of Rafale and French production starting in 2019,there is no way we are inducting 36 Rafales before 2022. And here I am taking into consideration that Rafale production is ramped up to 18 per year.

The best bet is to order 2 squdrons of Mig29SMT now , and buy out the Greek and French fleet of Mirages. This will ensure we have replaced the Mig27s and Mig21s by 2020.

5th gen can wait.

Just dont do anything. Have faithA and wait for european answer to this. Last time I read that France will skip 5gen and go to directly to 6gen. We can purchase that one if these speculations will become truth.

France will upgrade the present Rafale , skip the 5th gen and go for UCAV.And that's not happening before 2050

 

[Oldman1]

I googled Super Sukhoi and this is what I got.