IDEF 2017: PAKISTAN MOVES CLOSER TO FINALIZING MILGEM CORVETTE PURCHASE - 10MAY17

[Penguin]

Well Type 54 has more (double) range then F22 P Frigate

Well, I can see that difference ranges are listed in wiki. BUT: WHERE DOES IT LIST THE SPEED FOR WHICH THIS APPLIES?

Type 054 > Range: 8,025 nautical miles (14,900 km) estimated
Type 054A > Range: 8025 nautical miles estimated
F-22P > Range: 4,000 nmi (7,400 km)

By comparison
Type 053H3 > Range: 5,000 nautical miles (9,300 km; 5,800 mi) at 15 to 16 knots (28 to 30 km/h)
Perry class > Range: 4,500 nmi (8,300 km; 5,200 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph)
Talwar class > Range:

• 4,850 mi (4,210 nmi) at 14 kn (26 km/h; 16 mph)
• 1,600 mi (1,400 nmi) at 30 kn (56 km/h; 35 mph

LCF/Zeven proincien class > Range: 4,000 nmi (7,400 km; 4,600 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Arleigh Burke class > Range: 4,400 nmi (8,100 km) at 20 kn (37 km/h; 23 mph)

See what I mean? The higher your speed, the lower your range and vv. So, besides range, it is crucial to know what is the 'economic cruising speed'

I doubt much that in reality F22P has less range than Type 054A.

It has 16 cell VLS while F-22P frigate doesn't

Type 054A has a 32 cell (4x8) VLS with HQ16 missiles, with a range of 40-70 km, depending on missile version. This we were comparing to an IMPROVED F22P (because that was what the discussion was about), specifically one with an 8-cell VLS with a quadpacked missile (i.e. 32 missiles). If that is ESSM or Sea Ceptor than range is 50+km.
IMHO, that's very comparable.

Type 54 has more Anti Submarine launchers then F-22 Frigate

Both F22P and Type 054A come with 2 sets of triple tubes for lightweight ASW torpedoes and 2 six-tube Type 87 / RDC-32 240mm anti-submarine rocket launcher (additional spare rockets carried)
Imho that's identical.

the current f-22P of PN are inferior to Type 54 frigates when they gonna improve it no one knows.. Like i said PN should Upgrade the Current F-22P frigates and go for type 54 frigates at least 6 will cost $200-250 Million per boat and are good option to replace Type-21 and cheap

PN paid $175 million for F22P including at least 1 Z-9C helicopter per ship (6 heli's with 4 ships actually). Type 054A frigates have a per-unit cost of between USD$233 million and USD$348 million, not including their Russian Kamov K-27 ASW helicopters
https://web.archive.org/web/2016123...ions-new-stealth-warship-into-east-sea-fleet/
https://web.archive.org/web/2017021...06/how-much-do-chinas-warships-actually-cost/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_054A_frigate

In case of export to PN likely same ASW helicopter (Z-9C). Standard: same antiship missiles, same main gun, same ASW weapons, similar CIWS (not quite equal: 054A has more extensive firecontrol per individual gunmount, but gunmounts are the same). Same propulsion;

F22P (29kn)

• CODAD (Combined Diesel and Diesel)
• 4 × Pielstick 16PA6STC @ 5,1 MW
• 4 × MTU diesels generator set 8V396TE54 @ 680 kW

054A (27kn)

• CODAD,
  
• 4 x Shaanxi 16 PA6 STC diesels, 5700 kW (7600+ hp @ 1084 rpm) each

To the extent that armament is inferior it is mainly the HQ7 system on F22P. Replace that and it gets very close.

Even if it got just e.g. 4x4 VL Umkhonto, with 20 or 30km range. The price differences would still be enough to get 4x F22P+ ships (including helicopter) for the same amount as 3x 054A without helicopter, at about equal crew numbers.

 

[li0nheart]

If true then Indian should be in mourning.

You had to say that!
Now We will have to mourn...


Can I request you to buy F-22 Raptors instead of F-22Ps? This will greatly help us in going into mourning.

Thanks.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Type 214 deal was canned due to the fiscal constraints placed by the IMF's austerity requirements (PPP issues notwithstanding). Pakistan revived the new submarine program in 2013 under the present government, but opted to go for quantity (i.e. 8 S26) instead of 3-4 Type 214s. With the U.S. not releasing FFG-7s, the PN basically opted to shift to a strong A2/AD strategy with a large submarine force, which wouldn't have been possible with the Type 214s (at least in the time-frame was intending). Other factors, such as bypassing German/Western concerns over LACMs, also fed into the decision.

As for the MILGEM. This isn't one of those "JF-17 Block-II will have stealth airframe with Snecma M88" stories, but a documentable fact: the Pakistani MoDP signed a letter-of-intent with Turkey (in front of the whole world) to buy 4 MILGEM corvettes. The final deal was supposed to be inked on Friday June 30th, but we didn't get any news or word about it.

That said, it's worth noting that not all defence deals in Pakistan get inked in public, e.g. the /Hangor submarines (inked in 2015), the AH-1Z, the 3 additional Erieye AEW&C, and so on. Moreover, the recent MoDP report says that 4 new corvettes are on the procurement road map, so it's a genuine program at the moment.

 

[-------]

The Type 214 deal was canned due to the fiscal constraints placed by the IMF's austerity requirements (PPP issues notwithstanding). Pakistan revived the new submarine program in 2013 under the present government, but opted to go for quantity (i.e. 8 S26) instead of 3-4 Type 214s. With the U.S. not releasing FFG-7s, the PN basically opted to shift to a strong A2/AD strategy with a large submarine force, which wouldn't have been possible with the Type 214s (at least in the time-frame was intending). Other factors, such as bypassing German/Western concerns over LACMs, also fed into the decision.

As for the MILGEM. This isn't one of those "JF-17 Block-II will have stealth airframe with Snecma M88" stories, but a documentable fact: the Pakistani MoDP signed a letter-of-intent with Turkey (in front of the whole world) to buy 4 MILGEM corvettes. The final deal was supposed to be inked on Friday June 30th, but we didn't get any news or word about it.

That said, it's worth noting that not all defence deals in Pakistan get inked in public, e.g. the /Hangor submarines (inked in 2015), the AH-1Z, the 3 additional Erieye AEW&C, and so on. Moreover, the recent MoDP report says that 4 new corvettes are on the procurement road map, so it's a genuine program at the moment.

I'm hoping we may see something Today as 4th Ada-Class is launched and Istanbul-Class Frigate construction is officiated with a ceremony.

https://twitter.com/x/status/881786322092007424

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'm hoping we may see something Today as 4th Ada-Class is launched and Istanbul-Class Frigate construction is officiated with a ceremony.

https://twitter.com/x/status/881786322092007424

The intergovernmental stuff is complete, now it's up to the PN/KSEW to call up STM and ink it.

 

[nomi007]

type 054a are most advance than milgem corcette

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Are there going to be four more corvettes in addition to MILGEM according to MoDP report???

The Type 214 deal was canned due to the fiscal constraints placed by the IMF's austerity requirements (PPP issues notwithstanding). Pakistan revived the new submarine program in 2013 under the present government, but opted to go for quantity (i.e. 8 S26) instead of 3-4 Type 214s. With the U.S. not releasing FFG-7s, the PN basically opted to shift to a strong A2/AD strategy with a large submarine force, which wouldn't have been possible with the Type 214s (at least in the time-frame was intending). Other factors, such as bypassing German/Western concerns over LACMs, also fed into the decision.

As for the MILGEM. This isn't one of those "JF-17 Block-II will have stealth airframe with Snecma M88" stories, but a documentable fact: the Pakistani MoDP signed a letter-of-intent with Turkey (in front of the whole world) to buy 4 MILGEM corvettes. The final deal was supposed to be inked on Friday June 30th, but we didn't get any news or word about it.

That said, it's worth noting that not all defence deals in Pakistan get inked in public, e.g. the /Hangor submarines (inked in 2015), the AH-1Z, the 3 additional Erieye AEW&C, and so on. Moreover, the recent MoDP report says that 4 new corvettes are on the procurement road map, so it's a genuine program at the moment.

 

[Blue Marlin]

so when are we gonna see a contract signed? its july and the deal was (sorted) in may.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Are there going to be four more corvettes in addition to MILGEM according to MoDP report???

No. Just four.

so when are we gonna see a contract signed? its july and the deal was (sorted) in may.

They didn't announce any final contract signings, but the four corvettes are listed in the MoDP report, so it'll be a GO. That said, not all final signings are publicized, e.g. the Hangor SSP, second Erieye order, HQ-16 and HQ-7 orders, etc.

 

[Blue Marlin]

No. Just four.


They didn't announce any final contract signings, but the four corvettes are listed in the MoDP report, so it'll be a GO. That said, not all final signings are publicized, e.g. the Hangor SSP, second Erieye order, HQ-16 and HQ-7 orders, etc.

the turks love to publicise their orders they did that with the targeting pods when they shouldn't have when they signed a nda.

the chinese dont announce orders to the world.

 

[-------]

the turks love to publicise their orders they did that with the targeting pods when they shouldn't have when they signed a nda.

the chinese dont announce orders to the world.

It was a government to government order and as such no NDA was signed with the company producing the equipment.
If Turks loved to publicise their orders so much, perhaps you can tell me which country FNSS sold PARS III apc to. Or which South American country will be equipping their helicopters with HEWS self protection suite.
Investors got to be pleased, this isn't communist China after all.

Generalising as always, you make sure that head of yours doesn't get too big for your neck to support.

 

[Basel]

No bro, F22Ps will not be upgraded to VLS...Next upcoming ships will be having VLS
Secondly , Type 21 frigates have finished their time

It's possible if DK-10 (quad packable) SAM looks attractive to PN to replace HQ-7s.

 

[T-123456]

the turks love to publicise their orders they did that with the targeting pods when they shouldn't have when they signed a nda.

If the customer has any objections,it wont be made public.

 

[Blue Marlin]

It was a government to government order and as such no NDA was signed with the company producing the equipment.
If Turks loved to publicise their orders so much, perhaps you can tell me which country FNSS sold PARS III apc to. Or which South American country will be equipping their helicopters with HEWS self protection suite.
Investors got to be pleased, this isn't communist China after all.

Generalising as always, you make sure that head of yours doesn't get too big for your neck to support.

there nothing wrong with what i said the pars 3 was not a big ticket item where as the 1 billion order is big and even the 2.5 billion deal with ksa, and that fell through to as insult to injury. the pod deal was tiny and yet the details of the deal were leaked from the turkish side?

If the customer has any objections,it wont be made public.

if you sign an nda and do a deal it not supposed to bepublic yet deatails of the leak were released from the turkish side

 

[Incog_nito]

PN should request a 16-Cell VLS system for Anti-Air Missile system to get in place (with Chinese and EU Missiles) or even for Babur.