IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[fatman17]

what are the implications for the PAF now that the IAF has 'regained' the edge by short-listing the EFT and Rafale as their mainstay weapons system along with the SU-30MKI

projected strength in the next 5-10 years

SU-30MKI - upto 240 examples
EFT/Rafale - upto 200 examples
PAKFA - at least 50 initially
total - 490

2nd tier;
Mirage 2000 upgraded - 60
MiG-29 upgraded - ~100
Sepecat Jaguar upgraded - ~100
total - 260

3rd tiet;
MiG-21 bis - upgraded - ~100
Grand total - 850 fighter/strike aircraft

this line-up gives the IAF the desired 2:1 edge over the PAF

other

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?
SAAB was always out-of-the-running - will they flog the Gripen to the PAF (remember it has US engine)

and the PAF - will it push the GoP to provide funds for the procurement of the FC-20 (J-10B) - will it push the US to supply the 'option' of 18 F-16C/D Blk-52's

and....and....and...

 

[Varad]

Pakistan can now get around 100 block 60 or IN easily.Since the US is not in mmrca, they can sell them to Pakistan. Pakistan should go for these.

 

[Tumba]

what are the implications for the PAF now that the IAF has 'regained' the edge by short-listing the EFT and Rafale as their mainstay weapons system along with the SU-30MKI

projected strength in the next 5-10 years

SU-30MKI - upto 240 examples
EFT/Rafale - upto 200 examples
PAKFA - at least 50 initially
total - 490

2nd tier;
Mirage 2000 upgraded - 60
MiG-29 upgraded - ~100
Sepecat Jaguar upgraded - ~100
total - 260

3rd tiet;
MiG-21 bis - upgraded - ~100
Grand total - 850 fighter/strike aircraft

this line-up gives the IAF the desired 2:1 edge over the PAF

other

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?
SAAB was always out-of-the-running - will they flog the Gripen to the PAF (remember it has US engine)

and the PAF - will it push the GoP to provide funds for the procurement of the FC-20 (J-10B) - will it push the US to supply the 'option' of 18 F-16C/D Blk-52's

and....and....and...

...

net 5-10 years,,, MKI's will go to 300+ ... as chinese are mass producing Flankers... like...J-11.. J-15 ... so a minimum level of deterrent should be thr... 300+ Flanker...


IAF will take tally of MMRCA to 200 ... Tejas MK2.. will be mass produce as.. MMRCA TOT will give MK2 a BOOST...

PAK-FA... n AMCA will go hand in hand...

..

PAF ... will b getting goodies from US.. like Upgrade of thr existing fleet to BLK 60 ..level..
J-10B... may b J-11 is in cards for Pak Navy marine strike role.... J-XX single engine...


PLAAF will greatly enhance its capabilities ... J-10B++ J-11, J-20.. in massive numbers can give any Airforce a run of thr money...
J-10== around 700
J-11 ...... 500+
J-20 ... 300+
J-XX Single Engine Stealth Fighter... 300++...


so IAF should b prepared to defend... AMCA is the key to future... i hope these massive deals will benefit Indian defense industry to produce... High End Fighters...

 

[Silk]

I doubt block60 level for PAF. I do not think LCA (or its NG) will become candidates with planes like MRCA, Mig upgrade, MKI etc. But IAF surely will become very potent. But the real winner is PLAAF. Not sure what will be operational but the plans are impressing. PAF will move towards more smart weapons and R&D of some parts of fighterjets. Certainly the software and links. It will not be able in quantity or every field but will have certain advantages.

 

[praveen]

boeing got a civilian contract in air india for 14 billion dollars and any more bitching will severely effect that deal.We know that they know that very well

 

[TheLionKing]

It takes time to test everything.even with the MMRCA , the competition was supremely tough and took over 2 years.

Indian fighters are tested from Leh to Kanya kumari , in all weather conditions that is why it takes time.
Unlike PAF which has its options limited ki jo mile kharid liya

Buddy....you are too logical to write here. Mind you; its Defence PK.

We can't catch Pakistan's speed in "manufacturing." Look their record in missile development; they only successfully test fire missiles; never failed. Even USA and Russia will envy of their record. After all, "paint work and giving a name" is less time-consuming work than developing something from scratch.

 

[TheLionKing]

what are the implications for the PAF now that the IAF has 'regained' the edge by short-listing the EFT and Rafale as their mainstay weapons system along with the SU-30MKI

projected strength in the next 5-10 years

SU-30MKI - upto 240 examples
EFT/Rafale - upto 200 examples
PAKFA - at least 50 initially
total - 490

2nd tier;
Mirage 2000 upgraded - 60
MiG-29 upgraded - ~100
Sepecat Jaguar upgraded - ~100
total - 260

3rd tiet;
MiG-21 bis - upgraded - ~100
Grand total - 850 fighter/strike aircraft

this line-up gives the IAF the desired 2:1 edge over the PAF

other

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?
SAAB was always out-of-the-running - will they flog the Gripen to the PAF (remember it has US engine)

and the PAF - will it push the GoP to provide funds for the procurement of the FC-20 (J-10B) - will it push the US to supply the 'option' of 18 F-16C/D Blk-52's

and....and....and...

Logical......... , but some correction. There will be no MIG 21, Jaguar, or Mig 27 in IAF's inventory after 10 years. All MiG-21 (Bison) will be out by 2017 and Jaguar and Mig 27 in 2015.

 

[muse]

I doubt block60 level for PAF.

Do you really imagine there will any US equipment for the Air force? isn't that very optimistic? Do you think the people will accept that Pakistani armed forces use US equipment??

 

[TheLionKing]

For all those thinking Tejas is a failed project think again.

The only reason the IAF has not inducted it so far is because IAF is no hurry or is desperate need for them to induct first and then test. The Tejas is NOT a front line fighter or will never be - there are the MKIs,Rafale/EFT and the FGFA for it.

It will just be a 4th gen point defence/intereceptor filling in the shoes of the aging Mig-21s and the boost the numbers for which they are admirably suited.

This is about the present MkI, the MkII will be much more than just that.

I can't understand why people here are comparing Tejas and JF17.

Both are different in their roles. JF17 is frontline fighter for PAF and Tejas is defencive fighter that will be inducted to protect; not to attack by IAF.

If you want to compare, then compare SU30MKI or MMRCA winner with JF17; coz these are the fighters who will fight against each other in any future conflict. Only by this, we can get idea about which air force is having advantage over its rival.

There is no point in comparing Tejas with JF17.

BTW, most of us know, IAF already placed an order to induct 40 Tejas and the first squadron is expected to be established by 2013. More Tejas will follow after MKII upgrade.

 

[KS]

3rd tiet;
MiG-21 bis - upgraded - ~100
Grand total - 850 fighter/strike aircraft

Tejas ?

Already 40 of the MkI versions ordered by IAF and even the engines for 4 squadrons worth MkII bought.

And I dont think the Migs will be there 10 years hence.

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?

Americans have their hands full with about 10 billion dollars worth of deals (10+6 C-17s, 8+4 P-8Is , 6+6 C-130 J, 145 M777 Howies , 22 Apache Longbow expected in addition to chota mota deals like sensior fusion bombs, Harpoon Blk II missiles etc) which is pretty much huge comparing their recent entry.

Russians - well they too have much on their hands - PAKFA/FGFA mega project, additional MKIs, Mig-29 upgrades, Mig 29K further orders , Brahmos hypersonic version JV , Akula class SSNs etc.

 

[TheLionKing]

Pakistan can now get around 100 block 60 or IN easily.Since the US is not in mmrca, they can sell them to Pakistan. Pakistan should go for these.

No........If they go for US equp, they will commit mistake of their life. I hope they don't want to pay "Parking fees" for "their" planes anymore



PAF should go for Chinese tech only. China will help them a lot in the future to counter India. Whereas, India's relations with US and other Western countries are at their best and these countries will not make things to worsen.....as both side will benefit from it a lot in the coming years.

 

[IND151]

what are the implications for the PAF now that the IAF has 'regained' the edge by short-listing the EFT and Rafale as their mainstay weapons system along with the SU-30MKI

projected strength in the next 5-10 years

SU-30MKI - upto 240 examples
EFT/Rafale - upto 200 examples
PAKFA - at least 50 initially
total - 490

2nd tier;
Mirage 2000 upgraded - 60
MiG-29 upgraded - ~100
Sepecat Jaguar upgraded - ~100
total - 260

3rd tiet;
MiG-21 bis - upgraded - ~100
Grand total - 850 fighter/strike aircraft

this line-up gives the IAF the desired 2:1 edge over the PAF

other

what will the US do now - it seems to be 'sulking'!
the russians have not 'commented' on the deal?
SAAB was always out-of-the-running - will they flog the Gripen to the PAF (remember it has US engine)

and the PAF - will it push the GoP to provide funds for the procurement of the FC-20 (J-10B) - will it push the US to supply the 'option' of 18 F-16C/D Blk-52's

and....and....and...

us is not frustrated i guess. India needs many critical technologies which only us can provide. there are some contracts that India and america wants to sign. some sources tell that these contracts are worth of 25 billion $. the actual amount may be bigger than this.

as far as Russians are considers we have awarded them fgfa deal,gorshkov deal,mta , frigate building contract , MKI up gradation , new reactors in kalpakam etc. so both Americans and Russians will be happy.

 

[TheLionKing]

us is not frustrated i guess. India needs many critical technologies which only us can provide. there are some contracts that India and america wants to sign. some sources tell that these contracts are worth of 25 billion $. the actual amount may be bigger than this.

as far as Russians are considers we have awarded them fgfa deal,gorshkov deal,mta , frigate building contract , MKI up gradation , new reactors in kalpakam etc. so both Americans and Russians will be happy.

No......both USA and Russia are angry that they lost in MMRCA. So they will join hands and invade India with the help of Sweden, China, Pakisan.........to tell us how capable their aircrafts are!!!

 

[Storm Force]

FATMAN 17 your projected Strength of IAF is way out.

For a start The remaing 125 mig21 bisons will be phased out by 2017 by tejas & more su30mki nos

jaguars will go on arrival of mmrca from 2014 onwards

SU30 MKI x 272 by 2017
rafael/typhoon x 126 by 2014-2022
Tejas mk1 x 40 by 2016
Tejas mk2 x 83 2016- 2022
mirage2000-5 x 51 may not be upgraded
mig29smt x 63 by 2013

34 sqds and 620 combat planes only by 2022

unless of course fgfa arrives in 2020

 

[MilSpec]

If IAF wants to maintain its superiority in the subcontinent, we need to first fulfill 45 sqdn stregth and then look towards 50 sqdns by the end of 2020. Tejas MKII 's success is of utmost importance because it will be the backbone of defence of indian airspace. In other words in case on continegency LCA tejas MKII will engage any aggressor strike package from PAF which may include f16 A/B blk 52 and J10B's in future. Although we will have an outstanding strike capabilty with mig 29 smt, MKI, MMRCA, Mirages, mig27s and jaguar darin II, none of these a/c should have to be repositioned for air space defence if 200 LCA's are supposed to do the job. So LCA MK II's success paramount for our offensive capabilities.

we need to deploy an impenetrable net of SAM and a huge fleet of LCA MK II to defend our strategic assets and densely populated areas

P.S.
Sorry OT but need to comment on LCA tejas being 1986 aircraft... by the same logic J 17 is older... didn't PAF/Chinese buy old rejected project 33 (mig) from russia. Project 33 was conceived in 1980 and rejected in 1986. So all this hoopla about overnight design of jf 17 is pure BS.