IAF losing edge over PAF:Military Intelligence.

[kingdurgaking]

It is very satisfying that the PAF with all the force multipliers and 4th gen aircraft has come along way, and from this article you can tell the indians are worried.

and by being worried do you think anything will change?

 

[Rafi]

and by being worried do you think anything will change?

No need to get defensive - just stated a fact. This guy is connected, and he believes that the indian intelligence is really worried about PAF modernization and development.

 

[kingdurgaking]

No need to get defensive - just stated a fact. This guy is connected, and he believes that the indian intelligence is really worried about PAF modernization and development.

what is there to get defence here... that was a logical question put forth... Of course Indian military establishment is worried.... when in your class if you are ranked no 1 by a margin of 50 marks than 2nd rank... you will get worried if the margin is reduced to 15 marks dont you?

 

[Storm Force]

GAP has reduced no doubt.

IAF had a 3-1 overall fire power advantage in the last decade ie 1999 Kargil to 2009. it was enough on paper to win Air Superiority in Kargil if needed.

This is down to around 2-1 TODAY thanks to new F16/52 & THUNDERS and AWACS. NOT enough to gain decisive Air Power esp over Pakistan itself.

HOW EVER

MMRCA can change this very quickly

126 of any choice from Typhoon Rafael Or F18S/H would be difficult to answer back by PAF as they don,t have the BUDGET $$$$ to match this sort of acqusition plan.

ITS INTERESTING THAT THIS REPORT HAS COME ON 21ST APRIL with rumours that IAF is pushing the MINISTRY OF DEFENSE to annouce the MMRCA winner by MONTH END OR JULY AT THE LATEST

 

[air marshal]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=208452912512292

 

[tanlixiang28776]

If PLAAF was to go offensive against India, then what stops you from adding USAF to the equation ?

Yes, like they came to your aid last time.

Besides I can bank on the fact that Chinese leaders are logical enough to avoid any conflict that can potentially harm them. China has and will always prefer to indirectly hurt India by providing support to Pakistan, but will never engage in a direct conflict because that's just what the US is waiting for.

What exactly do you think the US will do when Pakistan and India get in a conflict. They are still allies even if they are not happy about it

Also, your fanboyism is disallowing you to see the clear picture. J-10B is nowhere near the MKI on all aspects except price. MKK cannot be compared with MKI since both fighters are extensively modified in different ways.

The J10B will be significantly superior to the MKI in everything besides shear range of the radar. and even that not by much.

J-10 (KLJ-3): 100-130 km J-10 (Zhuk-10PD): 160 km
NIIP Bars - 3m2 @ (155km - 175km)

Do remember that that the MKI also has a far large RCS compared to the J 10, not to mention the J 10B

Fanboyism? You idiots think the MKI is comparable to the F 22 and you think we are the Fanboys?

MKK has similarly powerful radar as the MKI from the same source, and same missiles from the same source. WTF makes you think the MKI is any better, besides fanboyism?

 

[kingdurgaking]

Yes, like they came to your aid last time.



What exactly do you think the US will do when Pakistan and India get in a conflict. They are still allies even if they are not happy about it



The J10B will be significantly superior to the MKI in everything besides shear range of the radar. and even that not by much.

J-10 (KLJ-3): 100-130 km J-10 (Zhuk-10PD): 160 km
NIIP Bars - 3m2 @ (155km - 175km)

Do remember that that the MKI also has a far large RCS compared to the J 10, not to mention the J 10B

Fanboyism? You idiots think the MKI is comparable to the F 22 and you think we are the Fanboys?

MKK has similarly powerful radar as the MKI from the same source, and same missiles from the same source. WTF makes you think the MKI is any better, besides fanboyism?

J-10B has to carry drop tanks if it has to engage enemy... will carry atleast two... and can carry upto 6 BVR's and can engage only two targets..

while MKI can carry atleast 10 BVR's and can engage 4 J-10's with 2 missiles targetting each fighter.. dont you think this is a big advantage of MKI... with more internal fuel sufficent enough to engage in air with more time.. that is why MKI has got 2 pilots specialized in there role... J-10B is comparable only with Mig 29

 

[tanlixiang28776]

J-10B has to carry drop tanks if it has to engage enemy... will carry atleast two... and can carry upto 6 BVR's and can engage only two targets..

The combat radius is 1600Km without droptanks. More than enough to do have a air war over most of India.

while MKI can carry atleast 10 BVR's and can engage 4 J-10's with 2 missiles targetting each fighter.. dont you think this is a big advantage of MKI... with more internal fuel sufficent enough to engage in air with more time.. that is why MKI has got 2 pilots specialized in there role... J-10B is comparable only with Mig 29

Is that all you have? More missiles also make your already huge RCS plane even larger. As for the time thing both have sufficient time to engage. J10B with AESA, DSI, IRST, and etc would make mince meat of the MKI. You have the strangest way to argue. The J 20 will also carry less missiles than the MKI, is it also inferior?

Do you have a response to why you think the MKI is so much superior to the MKK, besides fanboyism talk?

 

[krash]

Firstly I do not understand the purpose of the post quoted below but nonetheless:

well 1965 was more of an opertunistic move on part of pakistan considering the fact that India had just lost a war against China

The 'opportunistic move' with regards to Pakistan was Operation Gibraltar and not the war. Brush up on who started the all out war. Had the Indians gone ahead with their 'surgical strikes' you would have still blamed Pakistan for initiating an all out war. Stop crying you still had everything more than we did, allot more.

with pakistan loosing more troops and teritory than India

Sure what ever helps you sleep at night. I understand that you had to include that statement just so to make the sting of admitting "India having lost more planes than Pakistan " less toxic.

thanks to surprise attack by PAF against Indian airfields which led to large number of aircrafts being lost on the ground

As did the aerial fights lead to a large number of aircrafts being lost on the Indian side.

Do u know that PAF tried the same tactics in 1971 which it had successfully employed in 1965 , however this time they failed

Yes but the aerial battles went the same way....again.....

as far as training is concerned , well i dont think India will have any problems now thanks to regular training Excersises that we have been conducting with UK , France , US , Singapore and Israel , which are some of the most professional Air forces in the world
We are also acquiring modern trainer aircraft like Advance Jet trainer Hawk , IJT Sitara and currently have an ongoing contract to rerplace our beginner trainer fleet

Well going by that logic the arab states must have some of the most well trained air forces in the world. You need a comprehensive training program at home to produce well trained pilots. International exercises can only do so much and only then when your base is reasonably strong.

J-10B has to carry drop tanks if it has to engage enemy...

Absolutely incorrect......The massive fuel reserve of the MKI is a very potent threat when it comes to long range strike missions. We wont be flying CAP missions from Iranian airbases.

 

[kingdurgaking]

The combat radius is 1600Km without droptanks. More than enough to do have a air war over most of India.

Combat radius seem to be inflated... is it the radius with clean config or with what weapons system.. how much is the internal fuel it is holding?

Is that all you have? More missiles also make your already huge RCS plane even larger. As for the time thing both have sufficient time to engage. J10B with AESA, DSI, IRST, and etc would make mince meat of the MKI. You have the strangest way to argue. The J 20 will also carry less missiles than the MKI, is it also inferior?

Do you have a response to why you think the MKI is so much superior to the MKK, besides fanboyism talk?

more missiles means more RCS no doubt... but J-10B will be deducted within the launching range of Archer.. enough to guide missiles.. and MKI can still eat one missile and reach home (incase it is not critically damaged)... because it is twin engine twin tail... but not the case with J-10b.... it is a menace if MKI can guide 2 missiles each towards 4 targets simultaneously... the probability of hitting the enemy is more...

i am not a fanboy... it is a common thing.. more weapon + good radar means you have advantage... F-22 disadvantage is less missiles which is accepted by the US air force marshall during red-flag... its advantage is stealth... which negates its disadvantage..

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Combat radius seem to be inflated... is it the radius with clean config or with what weapons system.. how much is the internal fuel it is holding?

?????10?60%??_?_

more missiles means more RCS no doubt... but J-10B will be deducted within the launching range of Archer.. enough to guide missiles.. and MKI can still eat one missile and reach home (incase it is not critically damaged)... because it is twin engine twin tail... but not the case with J-10b.... it is a menace if MKI can guide 2 missiles each towards 4 targets simultaneously... the probability of hitting the enemy is more...

I'm assuming you're talking about the R 73 Archer missile with a range of 40 Km with the mark 2 version. The J10B would easily detect the MKI at ranges where the SD 10 or PL 12 could engage. As for the MKI surviving a modern high explosive BVR missile. Thats just laughable. The J10B would be receiving a AESA radar with far greater range, accuracy, and amount of missiles capable of being guided. Even compared to J 10A specifications the MKI does not have a significant advantage. Its radar range is nullified by its own enormous RCS which allows fighters with less powerful radars to detect it at the same range as it would detect others.

i am not a fanboy... it is a common thing.. more weapon + good radar means you have advantage... F-22 disadvantage is less missiles which is accepted by the US air force marshall during red-flag... its advantage is stealth... which negates its disadvantage..

Yes you are very much a fanboy. You take the good things from the MKI and completely ignore its shortcomings like its PESA radar, enormous RCS, and etc. You also discount the opponent aircrafts advantage like, AESA, lesser RCS, and IRST.

Looky here MKs also carry a s**tload of missiles and a powerful radar. We win. Great argument eh?

 

[Storm Force]

This thread is about IAF losing EDGE over PAF.

the j10/fc20 etc does not exist in the CURRENT PAF fleet.

At this stage their are rumours in AFM etc that PAF may have opted not to buy the J10

EVEN IF THEY DO buy the FC20 ITS NOT COMING until 2015.

CHINA is not going to fight INDIA people are wishful thinking THEY HAVE never threatened to make this 2 on 1 ie china & PAF V INDIA.

pakistan will fight alone with Thunders & F16 THEY WILL FACE su30mki , mig29 & mirage2000.

 

[ramu]

Let us not forget this beauty.

 

[SQ8]

Storm force..
Please post something a little more intelligent.. than that...what you have NO idea of...which have been debunked all over the forum.
Otherwise I will be deleting all further posts.. which involve unfounded jingoism by you.. and anyone else.. on either side.

 

[Storm Force]

To the J10 fan boy

Lower RCS does not make a better fighter.

IAF already fields fighters with lower RCS then SU30MKI ie mirage 2000 & new MKG29K.

yet the indians have increased the SU30MKI order twice from 190 to 230 to 272.

IF there where massive deficences in MKI then believe India has access to any combat fighter in the world be it USA EUROPE OR RUSSIA and the money $$$$ TO BUY THEM.

IN OTHER WORDS SU30mki is better overall then the other options be it mirage2000, f16, mig29 etc.

" how many orders for j10 so far frm overseas " = NIL

END OF ARGUMENT