I oppose imran khan decision of giving citizenships to illegal aliens

[El Sidd]

his lectures

And he should Listen to mine.

He has more to gain

 

[313ghazi]

Yeah we can agree to disagree but ask yourself how this will be of tangible help to Pakistan?
They own businesses...so what? They go to school and get education...so what...
Why does accepting people from a nation that does not accept your right to exist help Pakistan?...it is not like they fled Afghanistan because they disagree with their State and in love for Pakistan came to Pakistan...is it??

The biggest bigotry is the fact that Afghanistan does not accept Pakistan right to exist....why do you forget this??

One could say Pakistan needs to have strict vetting...oh but is this feasible for Pakistan....it would be easier for Pakistan to repatriate the refugees and from their country of origin they could apply and then give military service to Pakistan for a number of years or something like this....to prove their loyalty. Just willy nilly giving them citizenship because of their presence does not prove loyalty.

As they say money cannot buy love.....passports cannot but loyalty ....

These people were born and raised in Pakistan. They are are Pakistani as you are British. It's incredibly hypocritical of you to fail to recognise that, just because you have a bit of paper and they don't. Don't ever forget it is just a bit of paper.

These people are already living in our country, they've already assimilated to life here, they've adapted the language, they contribute to society - it's the bare basics of what a citizen is.

Do you forget why these people are here in the first place? A large part of it has to do with our nation first letting the CIA fight a proxy war in their country in the 70's, then again in the 2000's and in the time inbetween we fueled the fire of a civil war there until our dog won. They didn't sneak over to burn flags, desecrate maps and blow themselves up. We're still supporting a war in their country today, in fact we're so damned efficient at it now we're support opposing sides!

You're making assumptions about the process involved in giving them nationality (the policy was only announced hours ago) and using your predujices to have a pop at these people.

It's basic humanity to let people live somewhere safe. None of us are going to dip into our pocket to put food on their table tonight, or any other night. How can you live in a country like Britain and not appreciate the humanity? How many refugees from across the world come here and call it home? How many people are treated free every day on the NHS because we all pay to fund this system?

The whole "they don't recognise Pakistan" is a strawman arguement. The Afghan government recognises the Pakistani state and visa versa. They dispute the boundary between us. We dispute the boundary with India in several places - does that mean we don't recognise them? Or they don't recognise us? Don't use half truths to cover up other peoples discrimination.

This same bigotry was on display on this forum a few weeks ago when Atif Mian was forced out of a job because of his religious beliefs. The liberal left are right - even a broken clock can be right twice a day. We have an extremism problem in our society and it's not limited to uneducated Mullahs - it's the rich and well to do who are intolerant too.

Would they fight for Pakistan against Afghanistan...merely being peaceful on the streets of Pakistan is not enough? And for the boys I mean when they grow up.


No yaar e man...Imam Khomeini..

Will you fight for Britain against Pakistan?

 

[insight-out]

One can never earn their good will as a nation (individuals maybe)...I am willing to accept an Afghan refugee if he fights for Pakistan...that I can accept...

Never say never. But let's say I accept your argument that we will never earn their own goodwill, my main point was that this move will benefit us. Do you disagree with that?

 

[hussain0216]

Why oh why must we tolerate this Afghan trash


I see myself as a observant muslim

Anyone can dig up my old posts, I always hated hindus but was also positive towards all muslims and still am

BUT only those who are positive back, I never had any hatred towards afghans or bengalis UNTIL i learnt of the animosity they had towards us

Pakistan first!

This is as STUPID decision we should be looking to throw out any and all afghan trash and actively grind Afghanistan into the ground
Afghanistan since 1947 has hated us
Refused to accept our new state
Repeatedly try to occupy our land snd create fassad and harm our people

They are a worthless people and the last thing we should be doing is giving more of the leeches citizenship

 

[TMA]

These people were born and raised in Pakistan. They are are Pakistani as you are British. It's incredibly hypocritical of you to fail to recognise that, just because you have a bit of paper and they don't. Don't ever forget it is just a bit of paper.

These people are already living in our country, they've already assimilated to life here, they've adapted the language, they contribute to society - it's the bare basics of what a citizen is.

Do you forget why these people are here in the first place? A large part of it has to do with our nation first letting the CIA fight a proxy war in their country in the 70's, then again in the 2000's and in the time inbetween we fueled the fire of a civil war there until our dog won. They didn't sneak over to burn flags, desecrate maps and blow themselves up. We're still supporting a war in their country today, in fact we're so damned efficient at it now we're support opposing sides!

You're making assumptions about the process involved in giving them nationality (the policy was only announced hours ago) and using your predujices to have a pop at these people.

It's basic humanity to let people live somewhere safe. None of us are going to dip into our pocket to put food on their table tonight, or any other night. How can you live in a country like Britain and not appreciate the humanity? How many refugees from across the world come here and call it home? How many people are treated free every day on the NHS because we all pay to fund this system?

The whole "they don't recognise Pakistan" is a strawman arguement. The Afghan government recognises the Pakistani state and visa versa. They dispute the boundary between us. We dispute the boundary with India in several places - does that mean we don't recognise them? Or they don't recognise us? Don't use half truths to cover up other peoples discrimination.

This same bigotry was on display on this forum a few weeks ago when Atif Mian was forced out of a job because of his religious beliefs. The liberal left are right - even a broken clock can be right twice a day. We have an extremism problem in our society and it's not limited to uneducated Mullahs - it's the rich and well to do who are intolerant too.



Will you fight for Britain against Pakistan?

I am a Pakistani who holds a British Passport. I am a Pakistani who was never born in Pakistan. I have never claimed to be a Briton and I can never make such a foolish claim. If the UK decided to take away the passport if they passed such laws..then I would be a Pakistani who holds a Pakistani Passport.
When people ask me where I am from I say Pakistan (even though I am not born there)...

Pakistan needs to concentrate on her own..not people from a nation that does not accept Pakistan.

The Afghan Soviet war was also supported by most Afghans...the idea was they could come as refugees and then once over...RETURN.
Do not forget that it was Afghanistan that did not accept Pakistan way before the 1970's and drew first blood so to speak. Have you forgotten this?
No they did not sneak to bomb Pakistan..but neither did they come with love...it was necessity due to the war...Pakistan cannot bear the burden...it is against humanity to your own people... Loyalty must be proved.

Refugees who come to the UK are refugees and most go back....as it is meant to be....
Afghans can come to Pakistan for treatment but then go back...about it being free...would be difficult cos Pakistan's economy is bad...although it would be good to have a system like the NHS....mind you privatisation is creeping in....

Perhaps you are correct it is a boundary dispute a bit like with Bharat...but does Pakistan willy nilly let refugees from Bharat in and make them citizens merely on the basis of being born in Pakistan? Answer: NO!
(I would say deep down Bharat does not accept Pakistan)...

You say I am intolerant..and yes I am intolerant of things/policies that will harm Pakistan. Willy nilly granting refugees from a State like Afghanistan citizenship is not in the long term interests of Pakistan...unless loyalty can be proven...You can call me a bigot...it does not bother me...call me a racist if you want...call me any other name...

Money does not but love....passports do not buy loyalty....

A war between Britain and Pakistan....easy: Pakistan.
And let us say that if I was threatened with losing British Passport, then I would lose it...if repatriation then so be it...

Now let me ask you if Britain and Pakistan have a war, who would you fight for?

Also thinking about this further, Britain and Pakistan don't have a border dispute.

So to compare Afghanistan with Britain is not appropriate.

A better comparison would be Bharat as Pakistan does have a dispute over territory.

 

[Trango Towers]

Hi everyone
As we watched on news recently our newly elected PM announced to give citizenship's to all afghan and bengali refugees living inside pakistan for more than 30 years or to their children if they were born inside pakistan.He justified his silly decision by saying it,s a cruelty against a humanity if we do not treat them like pakistani citizens and all over the world residents who live for a long time get citizen ships so we imitate them.In simple words we are going to make illegal aliens the legal citizens of Pakistan.
Well Mr PM first of all let me clarify that not all countries give citizenship to refugees and permanent residents.Arab states are best examples in this regard.Decisions should always be based on national interests.Secondly do you think it,s a cruelty against humanity to give citizenship to those afghans who oppose the creation of Pakistan,do not thank us for what we did for them,are namak harams and spread all the terrorism and crime inside Pakistan. Even if we give citizenship to those afghans who are born inside Pakistan that wont change a reality they are still afghans who grew up under the influence of their parents who without doubt hate Pakistan with passion.From my personal experience i can tell you i met some afghan students in college and they all considered Afghanistan their real home despite being living in Pakistan since they were toddlers.
Now i am coming to bengalis. We all know what happened in 1971 and the creation and independence of Bangladesh is based on a war with a present day Pakistan. Bengali's are very strong nationalists and much like afghans they use Pakistan to earn their bread but deep in heart they are bengalis. Specially the youth do not like Pakistan and how in this earth they will like Pakistan when they fought with Pakistan to create their homeland and this history is all over in their school books.
I doubt those who claim afghan land till attock and those who fight the host country to get independence will become the law abiding patriotic citizens of pakistan.Mr PM do you think it,s in our national interests to give all jobs for unemployed pakistanis to illegal aliens ?Tell me why india despite supporting Bangladesh against pakistan on every platform did not give a single citizenship to any bengali living inside india and treat them like a economic burden?
Despite being a PTI voter i do not support this decision .Any one here who support this decision of IK?

I support IK....
Many pakistani are american canadian british etc citizens....lets make these people our people.
People like you will always cry. Those that have benn here 30 years deserve to call this a home. We are not arabs states. We should have humanity

 

[El Sidd]

observant muslim

hated hindus

YOU DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE

 

[313ghazi]

I am a Pakistani who holds a British Passport. I am a Pakistani who was never born in Pakistan. I have never claimed to be a Briton and I can never make such a foolish claim. If the UK decided to take away the passport if they passed such laws..then I would be a Pakistani who holds a Pakistani Passport.
When people ask me where I am from I say Pakistan (even though I am not born there)...

Pakistan needs to concentrate on her own..not people from a nation that does not accept Pakistan.

The Afghan Soviet war was also supported by most Afghans...the idea was they could come as refugees and then once over...RETURN.
Do not forget that it was Afghanistan that did not accept Pakistan way before the 1970's and drew first blood so to speak. Have you forgotten this?
No they did not sneak to bomb Pakistan..but neither did they come with love...it was necessity due to the war...Pakistan cannot bear the burden...it is against humanity to your own people... Loyalty must be proved.

Refugees who come to the UK are refugees and most go back....as it is meant to be....
Afghans can come to Pakistan for treatment but then go back...about it being free...would be difficult cos Pakistan's economy is bad...although it would be good to have a system like the NHS....mind you privatisation is creeping in....

Perhaps you are correct it is a boundary dispute a bit like with Bharat...but does Pakistan willy nilly let refugees from Bharat in and make them citizens merely on the basis of being born in Pakistan? Answer: NO!
(I would say deep down Bharat does not accept Pakistan)...

You say I am intolerant..and yes I am intolerant of things/policies that will harm Pakistan. Willy nilly granting refugees from a State like Afghanistan citizenship is not in the long term interests of Pakistan...unless loyalty can be proven...You can call me a bigot...it does not bother me...call me a racist if you want...call me any other name...

Money does not but love....passports do not buy loyalty....

A war between Britain and Pakistan....easy: Pakistan.
And let us say that if I was threatened with losing British Passport, then I would lose it...if repatriation then so be it...

Now let me ask you if Britain and Pakistan have a war, who would you fight for?

Pakistan, unless Pakistan was doing major injustice (we are talking hypotheticals of course). After we have no need for paper passports, when our bodies return to the soil they came from, we'll have to answer to Allah. That is why I would never fight for injustice.

 

[TMA]

Never say never. But let's say I accept your argument that we will never earn their own goodwill, my main point was that this move will benefit us. Do you disagree with that?

Pakistan, unless Pakistan was doing major injustice (we are talking hypotheticals of course). After we have no need for paper passports, when our bodies return to the soil they came from, we'll have to answer to Allah. That is why I would never fight for injustice.

So unless the Afghan refugee joins and gives military service..until he is prepared to stand at the border with Afghanistan and do his duty......Do you think many Afghan refugees would do this?
And let me tell you this...Pakistan has made many grave mistakes..but one of them is not recognizing Afghanistan and starting aggression with her. The blame lies at her feet.

Passports don't make one German, or Japanese or British or Pakistani...Blood and Heart do. The passport is meant to recognise this...e.g. if a Briton lost his passport for some reason (if the State took it away) would he not be a Briton? He is still British but without British Citizenship and all the entitlements that go with it....

 

[313ghazi]

So unless the Afghan refugee joins and gives military service..until he is prepared to stand at the border with Afghanistan and do his duty......Do you think many Afghan refugees would do this?
And let me tell you this...Pakistan has made many grave mistakes..but one of them is not recognizing Afghanistan and starting aggression with her. The blame lies at her feet.

Passports don't make one German, or Japanese or British or Pakistani...Blood and Heart do. The passport is meant to recognise this...e.g. if a Briton lost his passport for some reason (if the State took it away) would he not be a Briton? He is still British but without British Citizenship and all the entitlements that go with it....

Military service doesn't make one Pakistani. There are 200 million of us. At time of war, the ones getting paid to fight are the ones who'll fight. You don't have to shed your blood for a nation to be a member of it. This ultra nationalism is BS. At the end of the day, a nation state is an invisible line in the sand based on who has the strength to hold territory at what point. Humanity has outlived all nation states, all empires.

Without a passport, without the paperwork, you aren't British. Ask the Windrush generation. Ask them what impact a lack of paperwork has. These people born and raised in our country aren't any less human without a bit of paper, they have the same rights as anyone else. It's convention that people born in a country have the right to reside there, we have to have some limits otherwise we'd all move to where the resources are being horded.

However if we were all better humans, we wouldn't horde resources, so people like us, and those refugees - wouldn't need to move to survive. There'll always be someone better off than you who has more than you and had more than you who is willing to point fingers and question your loyalty. On this very forum members have questioned my loyalty and the loyalty of others like you and I because we are economic immigrants, or our parents were.

 

[TMA]

Military service doesn't make one Pakistani. There are 200 million of us. At time of war, the ones getting paid to fight are the ones who'll fight. You don't have to shed your blood for a nation to be a member of it. This ultra nationalism is BS. At the end of the day, a nation state is an invisible line in the sand based on who has the strength to hold territory at what point. Humanity has outlived all nation states, all empires.

Without a passport, without the paperwork, you aren't British. Ask the Windrush generation. Ask them what impact a lack of paperwork has. These people born and raised in our country aren't any less human without a bit of paper, they have the same rights as anyone else. It's convention that people born in a country have the right to reside there, we have to have some limits otherwise we'd all move to where the resources are being horded.

However if we were all better humans, we wouldn't horde resources, so people like us, and those refugees - wouldn't need to move to survive. There'll always be someone better off than you who has more than you and had more than you who is willing to point fingers and question your loyalty. On this very forum members have questioned my loyalty and the loyalty of others like you and I because we are economic immigrants, or our parents were.

Willing to shed your blood for a nation does in my book. Maybe it does not in your book.
If all out war broke out with Bharat let us say and the military needed more men, do you think Pakistan military would petition the Government of Afghanistan for more men??
You are right, that you don't have to shed your blood to be part of a nation,..one can be born by lineage. If one is not then marriage (like a Afghan lady marrying a Pakistani man) but not the other way around. Or military service. Ok maybe doing something special for Pakistan (but that would be rather exceptional). But generally blood, marriage and military service.

This concept of jus soli is a dangerous especially to a people from a nation that has issues with Pakistan.
You call this ultranationalismBS...I call it national realism...

A nation state is a line...but we believe in that line...and what the concept of Pakistan is for? If a foreigner wants to became Pakistani...he ought to believe in it and prove it.(One way is by military service, perhaps you know another way?).

I am not bothered about the land....the nation of Pakistan is not the land...the nation is the people and ideology.... most of them live in land commonly called Pakistan...and that nation ostensibly has control over a tangible territory, this land could increase or decrease or stay the same...but the nation carries on unless of course genocide/massive and rapid miscegenation or the ideology is finished....
Do Afghans refugees believe in this nation? Will they fight for this nation? If they will, I welcome them...but me thinks that most of them don't have these views...

The Windrush were not Britons were they?Hence the issue as they had no paperwork. Do you think a bunch of Scots or English would have had such a problem if they had no paperwork?

They can question my loyalty, it does not bother me as I know in the marrow of my bones to which nation, to which people I am from. And it has little to with land... or birth place...or passport...

Nation is not the same as nation state as well.
Banu Israel are a nation and for most of their history have never had their own state...but always have been a nation.

 

[Moonlight]

No comments about Bengalis but I am definitely against giving citizenship to Afghanis.

#NamakHaram

 

[TMA]

Military service doesn't make one Pakistani. There are 200 million of us. At time of war, the ones getting paid to fight are the ones who'll fight. You don't have to shed your blood for a nation to be a member of it. This ultra nationalism is BS. At the end of the day, a nation state is an invisible line in the sand based on who has the strength to hold territory at what point. Humanity has outlived all nation states, all empires.

Without a passport, without the paperwork, you aren't British. Ask the Windrush generation. Ask them what impact a lack of paperwork has. These people born and raised in our country aren't any less human without a bit of paper, they have the same rights as anyone else. It's convention that people born in a country have the right to reside there, we have to have some limits otherwise we'd all move to where the resources are being horded.

However if we were all better humans, we wouldn't horde resources, so people like us, and those refugees - wouldn't need to move to survive. There'll always be someone better off than you who has more than you and had more than you who is willing to point fingers and question your loyalty. On this very forum members have questioned my loyalty and the loyalty of others like you and I because we are economic immigrants, or our parents were.

Also don't confuse refugees with economic or other such legal migrants. There is a difference.

 

[Maarkhoor]

No comments about Bengalis but I am definitely against giving citizenship to Afghanis.

#NamakHaram

Our own people can't buy a single roti (not all but many) he gifted 40000 wheat to scums and now wanted nationality for Afghans.....is he gone mad?

I will fight against it regardless what state declares me ….. period...

 

[Moonlight]

Our own people can't buy a single roti (not all but many) he gifted 40000 wheat to scums and now wanted nationality for Afghans.....is he gone mad?

I will fight against it regardless what state declares me ….. period...

I was surprised too. Tbh