'I am an Indian Muslim, not a Pakistani' - BBC News

[313ghazi]

yeah but not everyone is allowed in nor just being muslim gives your preferences.

they all do because everyone is required to have some sort of policy stated.

we have strict rules now even for national identity card if you do not have the necessary documents at disposal.

Muslims may however get preferential treatment in other ways but thats not a deciding factor for anyone if its i am doubting it lol

You guys got the wrong end of the stick in the first place. I did not say by believing in Pakistan ideology you can be Pakistani citizen, I said the difference between those who are Pakistani now and those who are Indian Muslim is that at one stage 1 group chose to become Pakistani because they believed in the ideology and the other group didn't.

It is not ethnic, or where you're ancestors are from, or where you live now even. 3 people in this conversation are Pakistani, 2 of us live in the UK! The original question posed was what is the difference betwen Indian Muslims and Pakistanis.

I think we are saying the same thing with different words.

 

[El Sidd]

You guys got the wrong end of the stick in the first place. I did not say by believing in Pakistan ideology you can be Pakistani citizen, I said the difference between those who are Pakistani now and those who are Indian Muslim is that at one stage 1 group chose to become Pakistani because they believed in the ideology and the other group didn't.

It is not ethnic, or where you're ancestors are from, or where you live now even. 3 people in this conversation are Pakistani, 2 of us live in the UK! The original question posed was what is the difference betwen Indian Muslims and Pakistanis.

I think we are saying the same thing with different words.

man its not 1947.... its only 1947 in vedic universe..

India is not a country. Its a mob masquerading as a nation. remember?

 

[313ghazi]

man its not 1947.... its only 1947 in vedic universe..

India is not a country. Its a mob masquerading as a nation. remember?

to be fair, the original question didn't stipulate a time frame.

I've also got to dial down this global citizen vibe i must be giving off. I live in a part of a city which is shared with easily 20 different nationalities. things just happen. It's very easy for people like me to think of an "open door society", it's not the same for the vast majority of the world.

 

[El Sidd]

to be fair, the original question didn't stipulate a time frame.

I've also got to dial down this global citizen vibe i must be giving off. I live in a part of a city which is shared with easily 20 different nationalities. things just happen. It's very easy for people like me to think of an "open door society", it's not the same for the vast majority of the world.

han han hamare yaha bhi kami leone nude beaches pe yaqeen rakhta hai...per koi sunta nahi itni
ye tum pardesi logon kay masail hain jabhi me kehta ho dual passport band karo. koi kami ki tarah meri bhi nahi sunta.

 

[313ghazi]

han han hamare yaha bhi kami leone nude beaches pe yaqeen rakhta hai...per koi sunta nahi itni
ye tum pardesi logon kay masail hain jabhi me kehta ho dual passport band karo. koi kami ki tarah meri bhi nahi sunta.

hahaha. Dual passports have to stay. When the goray kick us out Pakistan is plan B.

 

[El Sidd]

hahaha. Dual passports have to stay. When the goray kick us out Pakistan is plan B.

hahaha choren sir ab kia kia bataon..... chill maren jab tak

 

[MultaniGuy]

Sorry but disagree. Pakistani Punjabi's have more in common with Indian Punjabi's then Pashtuns/Sindhi's or Baloch. However Indian Punjabi's are below 2.5% in the Indian population. That is the same convergence UK has with Pakistan.

No you don't. Please. Try to get Pakistani citizenship based on the "I am Muslim" and watch how fast you get kicked out from the Pakistani embassy.

Sorry but I also disagree. Pakistani Punjabis have more in common with Pakistani Pathans and Sindhis because of intermarriages and common bond of Islam.

Pakistani Punjabis do no have anything in common with Indian Punjabis.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The only place where I am Muslim card works is the two holy cities of Makkah and Madina.

Much respect El sidd. This one flew over the cuckoos nest. You made a simple but gobsmackingly knockout point. The only place where the "I am Muslim" gets you entry.

If an Indian, Muslim or otherwise invests Rs5million and wants to migrate, he or she can buy nationality.

I have not bothered to read the link you provided but does that qualify the -

1. I am Muslim
2. I am rich Muslim
3. I am rich Muslim but Indian
4. I am rich Muslim but Black African
5. I am rich Muslim but Arab
6. I am rich Muslim but European
7. I am rich Muslim but Chinese
8. I am not Muslim but I am filthy rich

If you scroll back you will note you said [read below] which was "for Muslims by Muslims". At no point did you start placing Muslims into categories or tiers. You said "Muslims". Or bring money into it. Now you have shifted the goalpost. If Pakistan "for Muslims by Muslims" then any person from anywhere, poor or rich would have to just declare one thing "I am Muslim" and he/she would be given citizenship. That is not, repeat not the case which pretty well explodes your canard "for Muslims, by Muslims".

we're all Pakistani because we believe in the idea of a nation for Muslims by Muslims, where non Muslims are free to live in peace and dignity.

You ignore one vital fact. Pakistan came about because Punjab, NWFP, Sindh etc elected to join the federation and that DNA still exists in the constitution of the country. The thing is a darned federation of constituents provinces which made Pakistan and they still exist which is why we have four provincial governments functioning right now in Peshswar, Lahore, Karachi and Sindh. Each has it's own police, etc, etc.

The provinces existed before 1947. The crucial differance is before 1947 they were managed by Britain from New Delhi by the Viceroy on behalf of British crown. After 1947 they elected to federate into Pakistan and managed by federal government in Islamabad.

 

[313ghazi]

I have not bothered to read the link you provided but does that qualify the -

1. I am Muslim
2. I am rich Muslim
3. I am rich Muslim but Indian
4. I am rich Muslim but Black African
5. I am rich Muslim but Arab
6. I am rich Muslim but European
7. I am rich Muslim but Chinese
8. I am not Muslim but I am filthy rich

If you scroll back you will note you said [read below] which was "for Muslims by Muslims". At no point did you start placing Muslims into categories or tiers. You said "Muslims". Or bring money into it. Now you have shifted the goalpost. If Pakistan "for Muslims by Muslims" then any person from anywhere, poor or rich would have to just declare one thing "I am Muslim" and he/she would be given citizenship. That is not, repeat not the case which pretty well explodes your canard "for Muslims, by Muslims".

You seriously sound like you deliberately didn't read the bit i wrote before and after that statement. I don't think it's possible, you would have had to read the bit before and after it. I said;

Pakistan is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality and an ideology. I am from AJK but I am not ethnically the same as a Kashmiri, I don't understand pushto or Baloch, Sindhi is a foreign language to me too. Yet it doesn't matter - we're all Pakistani because we believe in the idea of a nation for Muslims by Muslims, where non Muslims are free to live in peace and dignity.

Those who are Indian Muslims historically made the choice not to believe in that ideology and that is the key difference between us and them. I am no closer ethnically or racially to a Baloch than I am to a Gujurati, (well actually i might be, i've never had a DNA test done, who knows where our further ancestors are from), but the point is the Baloch and I share an ideology, the Gujurati and I don't share the ideology of Pakistan.

Nowhere in the ideology of Pakistan does it say that we want to form a nation for Punjabi's, sindhis, pukhtuns and baloch. It was a nation for the Muslims of South East Asia. Fact is up until 1951 anyone from India could migrate to Pakistan and choose to become a Pakistani.

The question put to me what was the difference between Indian Muslims and Pakistani's. I read responses about religion, ethnicity, language which are all bullshit. The truth is the biggest difference is they chose not to be Pakistani, we chose to be Pakistani. People from far flung parts of India migrated to become Pakistani.

My abbreviation of Pakistan as a nation for Muslims by Muslims where non Muslims can live in peace is not too far off the mark from what Jinnah himself stated;

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.

In that quote he talks about Pakistan being a democracy, about it's Islamic identity and about preserving the rights of minorities as equals. None of what i said, was to the contrary. I really don't know why you choose to beat about the bush wrt half a sentence in two paragraphs of text.

You ignore one vital fact. Pakistan came about because Punjab, NWFP, Sindh etc elected to join the federation and that DNA still exists in the constitution of the country. The thing is a darned federation of constituents provinces which made Pakistan and they still exist which is why we have four provincial governments functioning right now in Peshswar, Lahore, Karachi and Sindh. Each has it's own police, etc, etc.

The provinces existed before 1947. The crucial differance is before 1947 they were managed by Britain from New Delhi by the Viceroy on behalf of British crown. After 1947 they elected to federate into Pakistan and managed by federal government in Islamabad.

Sure so what? How has anything i said detract from that? I don't know why you're always second guessing my thoughts. I really struggle to understand what you think i mean by what i say.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You seriously sound like you deliberately didn't read the bit i wrote before and after that statement. I don't think it's possible, you would have had to read the bit before and after it. I said;



Nowhere in the ideology of Pakistan does it say that we want to form a nation for Punjabi's, sindhis, pukhtuns and baloch. It was a nation for the Muslims of South East Asia. Fact is up until 1951 anyone from India could migrate to Pakistan and choose to become a Pakistani.

The question put to me what was the difference between Indian Muslims and Pakistani's. I read responses about religion, ethnicity, language which are all bullshit. The truth is the biggest difference is they chose not to be Pakistani, we chose to be Pakistani. People from far flung parts of India migrated to become Pakistani.

My abbreviation of Pakistan as a nation for Muslims by Muslims where non Muslims can live in peace is not too far off the mark from what Jinnah himself stated;



In that quote he talks about Pakistan being a democracy, about it's Islamic identity and about preserving the rights of minorities as equals. None of what i said, was to the contrary. I really don't know why you choose to beat about the bush wrt half a sentence in two paragraphs of text.



Sure so what? How has anything i said detract from that? I don't know why you're always second guessing my thoughts. I really struggle to understand what you think i mean by what i say.

No ethnic/racial differences between Pakistanis and indian Muslims???????..........so a Tamil indian Muslim is the same race as a Pakistani Pushtun or Persianised Pakistani nomad????????..........

 

[Safriz]

Can somebody tell me what is the differance between 170 million Indian Muslims and Pakistani Muslims? Besides being under house arrest by Hindu's?

@Oscar

nationality..............

 

[ashok mourya]

Calling a Pakistani is a slang and deregetory to anyone in India...

 

[Mitho1980]

But just if he knew the difference between a slave and a free man.....

 

[DarkPrince]

A Pakistani or bengali Muslim is an artificial identity that was created after 1947. We are all Muslims of subcontinent.

 

[Ocean]

And indians and pakistanis are EXTREMELY distinct groups. Sorry but i have met UP, bihari and gujrati muslims and man their foods , language, dialects ,lifestyles are so distinct from us.

Even tho pak is multi ethnic and each baloch, sindhis,punjabis, hunzaiites , pathans and etc etc speak different languages but i have never felt anything odd with them their is always a feeling of mutual-ness in them that WE DO NOT FEEL WITH INDIANS.

Even indian punjabis barring handful of them feel so distinctly different from pakistanis.

Here is an indian punjabi actress priyanka chopra who is topmost actress in india considered super pretty there

Here is a pakistani punjabi famous model Iman ali

Some clans in Punjab feel affinity for indians like jats, gujjars, rajputs where as Arains like myself and awans don't.

totally wrong