Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

[Nilgiri]

Oh, man.

Just finished writing a narrative about a fiercely fought battle. About soldiers whose bunkers and trenches were overrun, and still fought back. About soldiers fighting them whose tanks were blown up, one after another, in front of them, and still fought back.

And you tag me for this ludicrous thread by some keyboard kiddy who had an empty twenty minutes to fill.

What did I do to you? Why are you making me read - what do I call it without getting kicked in the arse by @LeGenD - 'stuff' by @AZADPAKISTAN2009?

It's a rough transition, from trying to pore through a dozen books, to figure out which formation provided the tanks for their attack on the 8th, to a post that says



What did I do to you,@Nilgiri, to deserve this?
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I am writing this out of respect for @LeGenD, and NOTHING MORE. That member whose posts have edified us for more than a decade, not the Moderator. Out of respect for my own time and limited time left to do these things, I will not answer frivolous idiots. Or frivolous idiocies.
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The facts:

• How many soldiers and armed policemen in Kashmir has no bearing on a discussion, however wildly unlikely, on how many hours to total the Indian Air Force.
• For the record, and for the sake of the mighty irritation that it caused me to see the crap being shovelled around, please consult widely available orders of battle available as open source information.
  • The Vale is handled by one (1) Army Corps, XV Corps.
  • It has less than 10% of the fighting strength of the Indian Army.
  • It also has, at any given time, units of the Rashtriya Rifles, who together consist of 50,000 soldiers, about three (3) divisions worth of soldiers, not attached to any of the regular divisions.
  • The Jammu region, lower down, has the strongest Corps of the Indian Army, XVI Corps.
  • Kargil is monitored by one (1) Division.
  • Siachen is monitored by one (1) Brigade.
  • That division at Kargil is part of another, separate Corps, XIV Corps, that has the task of guarding Kargil, guarding Siachen and guarding the Line of Actual Control.
  • XIV Corps has recently been reinforced. Troops have been moved in,
    • some from the RR units, who are regular soldiers on deputation from their formations to the RR, and who are not needed at this quiescent state of the Vale,
    • some others from units not responsible for either the LOC, the international border with Pakistan or the Line of Actual Control with the PRC in Ladakh, or the MacMahon Line;
    • Their numbers and particulars are not relevant to the discussion, even peripherally.

So much for that 70% metric.

@LeGenD
@dbc
@AgNoStiC MuSliM

Dear Gentlemen,

There are certain posts and certain members whom I shall never give oxygen; never give them the acknowledgement that they crave.

Questions have been raised about the fighting spirit of Indian aviators, and I submit my contribution to the discussion through these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmal_Jit_Singh_Sekhon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajjamada_B._Devaiah

These issues are the kinds of innuendo and petty insult that the ignorant peddle. The central issue is the outcome of a conflict between the PLA AF and the IAF, in a limited-scope conflict, and in an open and unlimited war, or even a war with two adversaries in the field. Those need detailed discussion, so it is better to separate them out and put them in a separate post. Please bear with me.

tbh I thought it will turn into a regular kind of joke thread these days....and I tagged you (more to have a chuckle) before the subsequent hefty intervention by @LeGenD here....which was....wait for it....legendary.

Kudos to @LeGenD

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Noted.

Of-course, I do not think Indian army can hold against combined assault of Pakistan and China in the field. However , then the battle will take another turn and that is of semi-occupation which is a challenge in itself. Indian units will retreat and turn to guerrilla warfare tactics. Indian population is also massive, and will cause problems. Intrude too deep and Indians might press the nuclear trigger.

Therefore, the war must have a realistic objective - attainable.

The Chinese are too smart to try and occupy India. They will take strategic pieces of land and then start giving Self autonomy to the disenfranchised peoples of India. IE kashmiris, sikhs, and anyone else.

This achieves three things. Chaos within Indian ranks, a buffer between the lands they acquire and IA, and lastly they get to be absolved of being the bad guy because the world will be seeing India as an oppressor.

These same tactics have been used by abdali and conquerors before him.

 

[GumNaam]

10 to 12 hours? Against the PLAAF, iaf will be quoted out in less than 2 hours!

 

[LeGenD]

The Chinese are too smart to try and occupy India. They will take strategic pieces of land and then start giving Self autonomy to the disenfranchised peoples of India. IE kashmiris, sikhs, and anyone else.

This achieves three things. Chaos within Indian ranks, a buffer between the lands they acquire and IA, and lastly they get to be absolved of being the bad guy because the world will be seeing India as an oppressor.

These same tactics have been used by abdali and conquerors before him.

Hmm. Thought provoking.

10 to 12 hours? Against the PLAAF, iaf will be quoted out in less than 2 hours!

Bro, don't.

An Air Force as big as Indian cannot be wiped off in 2 hours. Particularly, in an all-out war scenario. Too many considerations and operational challenges.

If China is to invade India, then this changes the calculus of the conflict completely.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Hmm. Thought provoking.

It’s a very old tactic. The bhartis did the same shit to Pakistan in 71’, no?

 

[LeGenD]

It’s a very old tactic. The bhartis did the same shit to Pakistan in 71’, no?

Spot on, bro.

 

[zhxy]

bharat can win, just borrow Russian, French ground crews and fliers, American comms jammers, problem solved

UAV are cheaper and more efficient than expensive fighters.

 

[LeGenD]

India could spend US $ 200 billion and ask the Russians to build 20 aircraft assembly lines in India. IAF can build more than 3,000 aircraft a year if it wants. Replacing falling planes is easy, and the biggest problem is pilot training.

My take is IAF cannot afford to exchange blows with PLAAF repeatedly in its current form. IAF has to evolve for this to be possible. Indians have no choice but to harass and hit-and-run or strike at military bases from afar, to make it difficult for PLAAF to operate over Indian airspace.

PLAAF is very well-equipped Air Force as of late.

 

[KhanBaba2]

It seems 80% Indian forces (active) are in Kashmir leaving rest of Northern front unguarded, of course then there is the reserve forces

With only 20% forces to protest the Chinese and Pakistan border, you should be able to help in the creation of Khalistan like we helped in the creation of Bangladesh.

 

[LeGenD]

With only 20% forces to protest the Chinese and Pakistan border, you should be able to help in the creation of Khalistan like we helped in the creation of Bangladesh.

This is unnecessary.

Just mention how many troops are in J&K.

 

[simple Brain]

In order to achieve what you have just asked China would than have to penetrate deep inside Indian territory, Indian Air Force is scattered all around India, to achieve 10-12 hours destruction goal in a territory like India is almost impossible via Air Force no matter how large one Air Force can be.

However it is feasible in a situation of a Guerrilla warfare. But before we get into the details of how it can be possible we need to understand that how many Indian Air Force basis and number of Air Commands India operates.

The Indian Air Force currently operates seven Air Commands. Each Command is headed by an Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the rank of Air Marshal.

The Air Force currently has over 60 air bases all over India. These are grouped into 7 commands viz. Western Air Command at Delhi, Eastern Air Command at Shillong, Central Air Command at Allahabad, Southern Air Command at Indian Navy has some separate air bases for its aviation wing. The International Air Command operates only one air base currently, which is the Farkhor Air Base, in Tajikistan.[1]

Western Air Command is the largest Air Command. It operates sixteen air bases from Jammu & Kashmir, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and a couple of Air Bases in Uttar Pradesh. Eastern Air Command operates fifteen Air bases in Eastern and North-eastern India. Central Air Command operates seven Air Bases in Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and surrounding states of central India. Southern Air Command's tasks include protecting the vital shipping routes. It operates nine air bases in Southern India and two in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. South Western Air Command is the front line of defense against Pakistan, this important Command operates twelve air bases in Gujarat, Maharashtra and Rajasthan.

Chinese Air Force can handle 3 fronts in 10-12 hours like Western Command (with the help of Pakistani Airforce) and Eastern Command but for remaining Air Commands Chinese will rely heavily on ground forces. China or Pakistan it may have to hand over man portable air defense system to it's Guerrilla forces in order to target each and every plane that eventually try to fly away from other Air Commands (Hit & Run tactics would be vital in this kind of a scenario). But if China waits for it Indian Air Force will eventually raise a full-fledged command at Shillong which means they will mobilize 70% of it's other Air Command's Air Force assets to Shillong just the way it did back in 1962, for Chinese Air Force to destroy a large sum of Air assets this opportunity is vital if otherwise India does this foolish act once again.

And in order for this operation to be successful, the attack must have to a sudden and collective one. The only question arises that smuggling Chinese soldiers inside India's territory is not a big deal however smuggling man portable air defense system along with Missile in a large quantity can be a challenging task. Perhaps Bangladesh can be helpful if it agrees to help China against India. This planing could certainly require months of preparations ahead of an Air attack by PLA and Pakistan if India does not open all front wars, but if India does open all front wars it will be much easier to execute this plan.

10-12 hours is still a short window, however it can be possible.

 

[zhxy]

bharat can win, just borrow Russian, French ground crews and fliers, American comms jammers, problem solved

I have read many Indian answers on Quora. The Indians are proud of their fighter jets being dropped continuously. They argue that this proves that the Indian military is spending a lot of time on training and their conclusion is that "Indian pilots are more skilled than Chinese pilots."

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Bro,

Feel free to expand on this discussion in whatever way you wish to - a hypothetical scenario if you have one in mind.

Although bringing Alliances into this discussion will introduce too much complexity in the mix. Few have the temperament to keep with it then.

I would keep this to India vs. China in personal capacity. This is me.

Good work so far keeping it civilised.

As far as air war is concerned there are many advantages India has. However at the end it would come out to who blinks first and the tactic used. In air India can come out superior at least on paper where as on ground China would come on top.

 

[lcloo]

No body is getting destroy, simply because both side can fall back safely to airfields beyond the range of the other's stand off weapons as well as the combat range of fighter/strike jets.

However, airfields within 100 to 300 km from border will get wipe out by long range rocket fires.

Though no one is expected to get wipe out, the side with better area defence SAMs and better jets (AWACS, air superiority, strike jets etc) and superior AAMs will have upper hand and gain control of the air.

SAM - China has upper hand in both quality and quantity with domestic production (HQ9) as well as Russian imports (S-300 & S-400).

AWAC - who has quality is debatable but China has quantity as well as more variable in different type of electronic warfare aircraft (Y9-GX family). There is enough numbers for KJ200, KJ2000 and KJ500 to be on patrol 24/7 along the the whole border line.

Air superiority - J20 wins hand down with stealth and superior AAMs, J11 and J16 can employ ultra long range AAMs beyond 200 km.

AAM - China's PL10, PL15, PL20 and PLXX covers all ranges to beyond 200km, with rumour of even 300km for the new ultra long range AAMs seen carried by J16 jet. Indian's imported Russian AAMs have shorter range as well as having quantitative limitation due to replenishment restriction as there is no domestic production.

 

[zhxy]

in what? kamikazi actions? one is supposed to do that during battle not while practicing

I think the problem is poor maintenance