TACDE: The High Profile Establishment in the Headlines Since the Recent IAF Aircraft Crash

[SQ8]

The below is YOUR claim. Look at the note below. 'Air to Air combat were relatively few. Most were lost due to Ground to Air action'

So the PAF did squat and most of the kills were AAA. the IAF did it's job rather well, intense operations in East Pakistan (their primary ops focus) as well as supporting west as needed.

Pro hint- if something sounds too good to be ture, it usually is

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/screenshot_20211225_215329-jpg.916187/

There was a good reason for that - please read through Acdre Tufails account which even your professionals acknowledge as fairly accurate.

Long story short - the Army had promised a massive offensive in the west under the much overblown Gen Tikka Khan for which the PAF command was expecting high commitment 2/3rds of its force (and associated high attrition as well) - based on that the idea was to get the IAF engaged in retaliatory strikes over Pakistani soil and preserve force strength until this supposed offensive was launched. So the gloat you have over the PAF sitting it out for the most is based on ignorance rather than anything else.
The IAF was on the offensive, and in general where it met in air combat it was outflown generally but since it was also focused on offensive counter air and interdiction operations against well placed AAA it did suffer as well.

Every PAF historian including its professionals acknowledge the IAF performing much much better than its flying club display of 1965.
This thread is about TACDE and as such it does represent the creme de la creme of IAF and some of the finest flyers in the subcontinent - but what it also means that they are usually the first assets in combat and do take losses.. not exclusive to IAF this problem.. and are also “cult of personality” types that do get leeway in safety parameters which if violated in mock air combat can lead to disaster.

 

[datafreak]

There was a good reason for that - please read through Acdre Tufails account which even your professionals acknowledge as fairly accurate.

Long story short - the Army had promised a massive offensive in the west under the much overblown Gen Tikka Khan for which the PAF command was expecting high commitment 2/3rds of its force (and associated high attrition as well) - based on that the idea was to get the IAF engaged in retaliatory strikes over Pakistani soil and preserve force strength until this supposed offensive was launched. So the gloat you have over the PAF sitting it out for the most is based on ignorance rather than anything else.
The IAF was on the offensive, and in general where it met in air combat it was outflown generally but since it was also focused on offensive counter air and interdiction operations against well placed AAA it did suffer as well.

Every PAF historian including its professionals acknowledge the IAF performing much much better than its flying club display of 1965.
This thread is about TACDE and as such it does represent the creme de la creme of IAF and some of the finest flyers in the subcontinent - but what it also means that they are usually the first assets in combat and do take losses.. not exclusive to IAF this problem.. and are also “cult of personality” types that do get leeway in safety parameters which if violated in mock air combat can lead to disaster.

The only thing that can be derived from the TACDE incident is that there was an accident due to two planes coming too close under unknown cirecumstances. An inquiry is a standard process after a crash. Nothing else can be inferred at all.

 

[SQ8]

The only thing that can be derived from the TACDE incident is that there was an accident due to two planes coming too close under unknown cirecumstances. An inquiry is a standard process after a crash. Nothing else can be inferred at all.

No - a lot can be assumed based on the nature of TACDE and aircraft of dissimilar types colliding .. its not like they were getting close to take a selfie together.. but you can go ahead and parrot the nationalist defense as expected

 

[datafreak]

No - a lot can be assumed based on the nature of TACDE and aircraft of dissimilar types colliding .. its not like they were getting close to take a selfie together.. but you can go ahead and parrot the nationalist defense as expected

There is no 'nationalist defence', you say in top gun schools pilots are given leeway, but in China, for instance, they hate that stuff and press top polits to be even more team oriented and stick to strategy. Is this the case with IAF? I don't know. Maybe not, but can't say.

What were the dissimilar aircraft doing so close? What kind of maneuvre were they practicising? Is it standard for close proximity maneuvre training? Probably yes, but we don't know for sure. Realistically, one can expect some accidents in these scenarios. But the actual reason, only they know.