Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

[LeGenD]

In order to achieve what you have just asked China would than have to penetrate deep inside Indian territory, Indian Air Force is scattered all around India, to achieve 10-12 hours destruction goal in a territory like India is almost impossible via Air Force no matter how large one Air Force can be.

However it is feasible in a situation of a Gorilla warfare. But before we get into the details of how it can be possible we need to understand that how many Indian Air Force basis and number of Air Commands India operates.

The Indian Air Force currently operates seven Air Commands. Each Command is headed by an Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the rank of Air Marshal.

The Air Force currently has over 60 air bases all over India. These are grouped into 7 commands viz. Western Air Command at Delhi, Eastern Air Command at Shillong, Central Air Command at Allahabad, Southern Air Command at Indian Navy has some separate air bases for its aviation wing. The International Air Command operates only one air base currently, which is the Farkhor Air Base, in Tajikistan.[1]

Western Air Command is the largest Air Command. It operates sixteen air bases from Jammu & Kashmir, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and a couple of Air Bases in Uttar Pradesh. Eastern Air Command operates fifteen Air bases in Eastern and North-eastern India. Central Air Command operates seven Air Bases in Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and surrounding states of central India. Southern Air Command's tasks include protecting the vital shipping routes. It operates nine air bases in Southern India and two in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. South Western Air Command is the front line of defense against Pakistan, this important Command operates twelve air bases in Gujarat, Maharashtra and Rajasthan.

Chinese Air Force can handle 3 fronts in 10-12 hours like Western Command (with the help of Pakistani Airforce) and Eastern Command but for remaining Air Commands Chinese will rely heavily on ground forces. China or Pakistan it may have to hand over man portable air defense system to it's Gorilla forces in order to target each and every plane that eventually try to fly away from other Air Commands (Hit & Run tactics would be vital in this kind of a scenario). But if China waits for it Indian Air Force will eventually raise a full-fledged command at Shillong which means they will mobilize 70% of it's other Air Command's Air Force assets to Shillong just the way it did back in 1962, for Chinese Air Force to destroy a large sum of Air assets this opportunity is vital if otherwise India does this foolish act once again.

And in order for this operation to be successful, the attack must have to a sudden and collective one. The only question arises that smuggling Chinese soldiers inside India's territory is not a big deal however smuggling man portable air defense system along with Missile in a large quantity can be a challenging task. Perhaps Bangladesh can be helpful if it agrees to help China against India. This planing could certainly require months of preparations ahead of an Air attack by PLA and Pakistan if India does not open all front wars, but if India does open all front wars it will be much easier to execute this plan.

10-12 hours is still a short window, however it can be possible.

You raise an interesting point.

This has to be joint PAF and PLAAF initiative. Otherwise, wiping out IAF in a span of a day is too demanding a task, and there will be significant losses and operational issues in the process. India is big in geographical terms. Too many sorties required. And refueling platforms will be in grave danger. Plus there is always a chance of airstrips near Indian border coming under attack from a distance.

 

[Deino]

@Deino
WE will appreciate if you provide some insight here. No compulsion though.

My take is that both China and India will not want to escalate to the point-of-no-return. Cost for both is too high.

China has superior armed forces no doubt but India can hurt China very much - assuming all-out war.

Exactly my point and as such I hope we'll never find out the answer to the given statement above.

Anyway concerning your question I think indeed china is not interested in an all-out war and a massive air campaign. Also, if the PLAAF is able to "wipe out the IAF within this short time" vastly depend on the scale and how much of their assets they would bring into the theatre; with the given forces so far based there I don't think it is possible.

On the other side I have even more the feeling that the Indian side is dramatically underestimating the PLAAF and even more overestimating their own IAF: A constant theme in the Indian media is most often a simply quartets game-like list of "we have this and they have that", most often with too low numbers for the PLAAF - simply since the PLAAF for the moment does not care about - and also always with such stupid claims "PLAAF cannot take off from these bases due to the high altitude, but we can" and "we have the Su-30MKI that already spotted the J-20"!

So in summary, the PLAAF is playing an interesting game. They fielded a few assets as a some sort of CAP in case to scramble any IAF intruder, but they are not able to such an all-out strike with the given forces yet. However they simple don't need to since this clash escalates, they could easily transfer more quite quick. Also I don't think they will field the J-20 yet, since J-10C, J-16 and the J-11B are sufficient for the moment.

Just my first 2 cents for the moment.

 

[LeGenD]

Exactly my point and as such I hope we'll never find out the answer to the given statement above.

Anyway concerning your question I think indeed china is not interested in an all-out war and a massive air campaign. Also, if the PLAAF is able to "wipe out the IAF within this short time" vastly depend on the scale and how much of their assets they would bring into the theatre; with the given forces sop far based there I don't think it is possible.

On the other side I have even more the feeling that the Indian side is dramatically underestimating the PLAAF and even more overestimating their own IAF: A constant theme in the Indian media is most often a simply quartets game-like list of "we have this and they have that", most often with too low numbers for the PLAAF - simply since the PLAAF for the moment does not care about - and also always with such stupid claims "PLAAF cannot take off from these bases due to the high altitude, but we can" and "we have the Su-30MKI that already spotted the J-20"!

So in summary, the PLAAF is playing an interesting game. They fielded a few assets as a some sort of CAP in case to scramble any IAF intruder, but they are not able to such an all-out strike with the given forces yet. However they simple don't need to since this clash escalates, they could easily transfer more quite quick. Also I don't think they will field the J-20 yet, since J-10C, J-16 and the J-11B are sufficient for the moment.

Just my first 2 cents for the moment.

Thanks a bundle for your level-headed response, good Sir. As always - your professionalism is duly noted and acknowledged.

 

[Joe Shearer]

tbh I thought it will turn into a regular kind of joke thread these days....and I tagged you (more to have a chuckle) before the subsequent hefty intervention by @LeGenD here....which was....wait for it....legendary.

Kudos to @LeGenD

That was a breath of fresh air. I haven't finished. There's a lot left to be said.

 

[PradoTLC]

OP is dreaming. If deployed, the PLAAF will likely sortie in support of troops in contact, the terrain is not conducive to close air support for either side. Platforms with excellent terrain avoidance capability while flying nap of the earth will excel here, Jaguar, Mirage and Rafale on the Indian side - perhaps J-10's and JH-7's on the Chinese side?

If the PLAAF or IAF attempt interdiction they will be hammered hard by the opposition. Mainly because neither side can bring supporting assets into the theater. My prediction - stalemate in the air.

agree.

I dont see the PLAAF dominating .. but then again the Chinese have got what they wanted they dont need to any thing.

Indians know they cannot counter china... and like every indian they will just stand down.. make a few noises and go home.

 

[IblinI]

Exactly my point and as such I hope we'll never find out the answer to the given statement above.

Anyway concerning your question I think indeed china is not interested in an all-out war and a massive air campaign. Also, if the PLAAF is able to "wipe out the IAF within this short time" vastly depend on the scale and how much of their assets they would bring into the theatre; with the given forces sop far based there I don't think it is possible.

On the other side I have even more the feeling that the Indian side is dramatically underestimating the PLAAF and even more overestimating their own IAF: A constant theme in the Indian media is most often a simply quartets game-like list of "we have this and they have that", most often with too low numbers for the PLAAF - simply since the PLAAF for the moment does not care about - and also always with such stupid claims "PLAAF cannot take off from these bases due to the high altitude, but we can" and "we have the Su-30MKI that already spotted the J-20"!

So in summary, the PLAAF is playing an interesting game. They fielded a few assets as a some sort of CAP in case to scramble any IAF intruder, but they are not able to such an all-out strike with the given forces yet. However they simple don't need to since this clash escalates, they could easily transfer more quite quick. Also I don't think they will field the J-20 yet, since J-10C, J-16 and the J-11B are sufficient for the moment.

Just my first 2 cents for the moment.

Plan for the worst,hope for the best but you can hardly see this from India's side, be it commoners or media even most of the official.

 

[LeGenD]

Plan for the worst,hope for the best but you can hardly see this from India's side, be it commoners or media even most of the official.

I would say that Chinese are excellent in the aspect of planning.

 

[Deino]

India could spend US $ 200 billion and ask the Russians to build 20 aircraft assembly lines in India. IAF can build more than 3,000 aircraft a year if it wants. Replacing falling planes is easy, and the biggest problem is pilot training.

No it could not, they could not even manage one or better to say decide which one ... as such I don't know what such stupid comments might contribute in this topic?

 

[meghdut]

Thanks a bundle for your level-headed response, good Sir. As always - your professionalism is duly noted and acknowledged.

Legend, set the premise is what you want to achieve here. It is never the goal of Air forces to completely destroy enemy Air Force. What is desired is achieve air superiority, where your offensive air operations can proceed without significant hindrances from opposing air forces. What US forces achieved in Gulf War 1 was just that. They could not completely wipe out Iraqi Air Force even with their overwhelming superiority. So presuming PLAAF can completely wipe out the entire IAF even using nukes is mere fantasy.

So I believe you ought to ask knowledgeable members to share their views on this question rather-If/How PLAAF can achieve air superiority over IAF and if they can how soon.
@Joe Shearer

 

[simple Brain]

You raise an interesting point.

This has to be joint PAF and PLAAF initiative. Otherwise, wiping out IAF in a span of a day is too demanding a task, and there will be significant losses and operational issues in the process. India is big in geographical terms. Too many sorties required. And refueling platforms will be in grave danger. Plus there is always a chance of airstrips near Indian border coming under attack from a distance.

Agree! and as you have described that the main reason of that is India's geographical depth in a case of a limited war with China, and than the countermeasure comes to play as well such as SAM's and the reserve fighter jets.

 

[sms]

Summary of post from all posters...
1. Both side are capable force with a wide array of weapons
2. Both side will not go for all out
3. Most of sorties will be limited to CAS and cutting supply lines
4. China will not risk to send airplanes deep in Indian territory because captured pilot from downed will be a big hit to their narrative and too big to be acceptable.
5. Long range artillery, rockets and guided missile (ballistic/ cruise) will be most preferred mode of halting operations at airport/ air strips

These are sane answers and assumptions. What if, all seven heavens are aligned and created perfect conditions, what would be the best course of action to decimate Indian or Chinese air force in less than a day?

 

[IblinI]

I would say that Chinese are excellent in the aspect of planning.

The think tank and top brass are always putting their feet on the ground, but our rivals or even some Chinese people misinterpret and see it as a sign of weakness.

 

[LeGenD]

Legend, set the premise is what you want to achieve here. It is never the goal of Air forces to completely destroy enemy Air Force. What is desired is achieve air superiority, where your offensive air operations can proceed without significant hindrances from opposing air forces. What US forces achieved in Gulf War 1 was just that. They could not completely wipe out Iraqi Air Force even with their overwhelming superiority. So presuming PLAAF can completely wipe out the entire IAF even using nukes is mere fantasy.

So I believe you ought to ask knowledgeable members to share their views on this question rather-If/How PLAAF can achieve air superiority over IAF and if they can how soon.
@Joe Shearer

Sound logic and point.

Well, you can check the opening post to have an idea of a hypothetical conflict being proposed in this thread.

I would say that a war must have a realistic objective. Fighting for the sake of it leads to nowhere, it would be chaotic with no end to it. India and China are massive countries with massive population bases.

If PLAAF is to engage and defeat IAF then there should be an objective to it. Like ground forces are to take a particular region or valley. All-out war is too dangerous for both countries to risk.

China is a military juggernaut no doubt but India can strike deep inside China and cause much harm. If population centers are blown to bits on both sides then what is the point?

You can decide a premise of a major conflict between India and China and expand upon it. What can be the cause or why can this happen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

tbh I thought it will turn into a regular kind of joke thread these days....and I tagged you (more to have a chuckle) before the subsequent hefty intervention by @LeGenD here....which was....wait for it....legendary.

Kudos to @LeGenD

Honestly, it was just his posts that kept me posting. There is still an enormous amount to be said, but so little time.

This is otherwise SUCH a time-killer for me personally; I have been trying to make sense of the Battle of Asal Uttar, with invaluable help from Meghdut, so that what we present is something which PanzerKiel can analyse without wasting time in correcting details.

But now that I am in, I feel that the job should be finished.

Have you read Deino's excellent post?

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

Firstly it all depends on the objective of the war....
If it is only posturing then nothing will happen..
If the objective is annex kashmir then the deployement and strategies need to be aggresive..
Having said that india will also move its forces accordingly..
For me india knows well about china and pakistan pressure on kashmir thats why it has 2 army commands deployed there....